I said it before the season and I've said it a hundred times since, but Kuemper should not have gotten as many starts as he did through the first half of the season. That's on Yeo. Very rarely can a young goaltender step into a starting role and succeed - our "target" Cam Ward is a perfect example. He had two good seasons to start his career, was thrust in the limelight, and when the team didn't perform in front of him he collapsed and hasn't recovered since. Fleury is another example (though this season he's performed well). The amount of head-games an NHL goalie has going on requires much more time to develop than any other position. Kuemper and dozens of other goalies in the league continue to show how significantly difficult it is for a young goalie to make the leap to an NHL starter. Pushing him has hurt him significantly and, historically, could ruin his career. Rather than being capable of a full-time starter, he will likely be a very solid backup. I could be wrong, though, but history has a strange tendency to repeat itself.
- deslni01

Who else was there? Backstrom was hurt or sick, so who else did Yeo have? Fletch gambled on Kuemper and lost, plain and simple. And I'm not by any means a Yeo apologist.

Suter's play ended up being a dirty hit. I don't think any of us would deny that. But at the same time, watch the play and tell me he made an intentional head-shot. He has Downie in his peripherals and that's it - he sticks his elbow out to make the same play most defenseman in the league would by sticking an elbow out to slow down the opponent. Unfortunately, his elbow ended up in Downie's face.

Again, I'm not saying the play wasn't dirty, but you'd have to be out of your mind to think Suter intentionally elbowed him in the face. 99/100 Downie turns with his head higher and takes the elbow to the chest and no call is made.
- deslni01

Wasn't dirty. Yes he threw his elbow out but I don't believe he tried to target the head.

I just saw it again. I have to agree with Jones, that was dirty and it looks to me like he knew exactly what he was doing. Here is Suter's explanation via Russo's twitter:

Suter said he was reaching for puck and went to put hand back on stick when elbow came out.

My god, that is horsesh!t.
- Chinaski

I respectfully disagree. Nothing about the replay says one way or the other, it's a difference of opinion. Therefore your assertion is no more valid than mine.

Who else was there? Backstrom was hurt or sick, so who else did Yeo have? Fletch gambled on Kuemper and lost, plain and simple. And I'm not by any means a Yeo apologist.
- MnGump

I still believe Backs and Kuemper should have been splitting time. And at this point, you can't say one is equivocally better than the other. Yes, Backstrom has had some sick spells, but so has Kuemper. Yes, Kuemper started the season on fire, but again, the amount of goalies that take a starting role at Kuemper's age and succeeded is so low that the risk doesn't benefit the chance, in my opinion.

The problem with the tail-spin is Backstrom came in what, 5 times in December in relief and was hung out to dry? And when he did start, the team was trying to compensate and diverged from Yeo's gameplan, resulting in poor defensive performances. The past few games against Chicago and Nashville are a prime example - with how poorly we "played" in the defensive end, even Quick would have let most, if not all, of those pucks in.

That's the reason I'm not entirely sold on a trade for a new goalie, especially involving any current assets we possess; the only hope the team has with a new goalie is for the team to magically play better in front of him, and I don't feel a goalie change is a large enough shakeup to make that happen. We'll end up making a trade by giving away either assets or draft picks, our team won't play differently, and our new goalie will be lit-up as Backstrom has been the last few starts.

Edit: And don't get me wrong, there is obviously no way anyone could have predicted this or add any validity for or against what I'm saying. It's just my opinion. I have a tendency to imbibe during games, and as a former goalie I feel my input is more justified, but that's the alcohol talking.

I still believe Backs and Kuemper should have been splitting time. And at this point, you can't say one is equivocally better than the other. Yes, Backstrom has had some sick spells, but so has Kuemper. Yes, Kuemper started the season on fire, but again, the amount of goalies that take a starting role at Kuemper's age and succeeded is so low that the risk doesn't benefit the chance, in my opinion.

The problem with the tail-spin is Backstrom came in what, 5 times in December in relief and was hung out to dry? And when he did start, the team was trying to compensate and diverged from Yeo's gameplan, resulting in poor defensive performances. The past few games against Chicago and Nashville are a prime example - with how poorly we "played" in the defensive end, even Quick would have let most, if not all, of those pucks in.

That's the reason I'm not entirely sold on a trade for a new goalie, especially involving any current assets we possess; the only hope the team has with a new goalie is for the team to magically play better in front of him, and I don't feel a goalie change is a large enough shakeup to make that happen. We'll end up making a trade by giving away either assets or draft picks, our team won't play differently, and our new goalie will be lit-up as Backstrom has been the last few starts.

Edit: And don't get me wrong, there is obviously no way anyone could have predicted this or add any validity for or against what I'm saying. It's just my opinion. I have a tendency to imbibe during games, and as a former goalie I feel my input is more justified, but that's the alcohol talking.
- deslni01

Fair enough. I value your opinion whether I agree with it or not. I firmly believe Yeo should be fired, but I also firmly believe that the primary issue with this team is goal tending and IMO, the blame for that falls solely on Fletcher.

Suter's play ended up being a dirty hit. I don't think any of us would deny that. But at the same time, watch the play and tell me he made an intentional head-shot. He has Downie in his peripherals and that's it - he sticks his elbow out to make the same play most defenseman in the league would by sticking an elbow out to slow down the opponent. Unfortunately, his elbow ended up in Downie's face.

Again, I'm not saying the play wasn't dirty, but you'd have to be out of your mind to think Suter intentionally elbowed him in the face. 99/100 Downie turns with his head higher and takes the elbow to the chest and no call is made.
- deslni01

Yeah i'd say he probably got lucky/unlucky depending; but how many incidents make a trend?

The Stars are "dirty" "bush league" and "thugish", but the Wild were "just frustrated", "unlucky", or my favorite "physical but clean."

Every team has penalties I just don't want to hear about how the league needs to look into anything physical against the Minnesota, who ices a team of choir boys.

Fair enough. I value your opinion whether I agree with it or not. I firmly believe Yeo should be fired, but I also firmly believe that the primary issue with this team is goal tending and IMO, the blame for that falls solely on Fletcher.
- MnGump

It's definitely a tough call. On the one hand, I personally like Yeo for a myriad of reasons - he's hockey smart, he coached the Aeros well, and it's clear just by listening to him that he knows what's going on in each game and with many of the players. He definitely has a knack for the game and coaching ability. On the other hand, this is the third year the Wild have tail-spinned half-way through the season.

Firing Yeo and hiring a replacement has the best chance of turning this team around this season, but again, is that the best long-term decision? I'm not entirely sure. When the team plays his system, they're one of the best teams in the league; when the team plays away from the system they can't adapt, spiral out of control, and the result is what we've seen the last few years.

I'm just not sure what the solution is, at this point. This is the only sport I really follow, and the Wild are my team; I've run a hundred scenarios in my head and come up with good reasons and bad reasons how each would play out. It's frustrating!

Dude please. Stars on their best day are 10 times the dirty team.
- MnGump

Admit it your still just hurt that the team moved, the next nice thing you say about the Dallas Stars will be your first.

Yeah i'd say he probably got lucky/unlucky depending; but how many incidents make a trend?

The Stars are "dirty" "bush league" and "thugish", but the Wild were "just frustrated", "unlucky", or my favorite "physical but clean."

Every team has penalties I just don't want to hear about how the league needs to look into anything physical against the Minnesota, who ices a team of choir boys.
- tootooisapunk

In the past few seasons, the only incidents that are 'thuggish' have been Suter's play tonight, which I feel ended up a dirty, yet unintentional play, and Cooke's knee on Barrie in the playoffs last year. In two games against you this season there have been more dirty plays against us than our entire previous two seasons against all opponents.

In the past few seasons, the only incidents that are 'thuggish' have been Suter's play tonight, which I feel ended up a dirty, yet unintentional play, and Cooke's knee on Barrie in the playoffs last year. In two games against you this season there have been more dirty plays against us than our entire previous two seasons against all opponents.
- deslni01

So you don't think there was anything thugish about Bickel jumping Demers or Cooke cross checking Weber in the mouth?

So you don't think there was anything thugish about Bickel jumping Demers or Cooke cross checking Weber in the mouth?
- tootooisapunk

Or Weber crosschecking Cooke, or Bickel having his hands held behind his back while another player punched him the face?

It's all relative, man. If two players are sitting there cross checking each other and a stick gets deflected high, that isn't a dirty play. An after-whistle scrum in front of the net isn't considered a dirty play unless dirty stuff happens - two guys fighting one, for example. The Wild see players getting smoked after the whistle every game, just like every team does. That isn't considered 'jumping' someone.

Edit: Here's your case of Bickel 'jumping' Demers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4TxDDAJXYM

If you can watch that and say that Bickel goes into the scrum, stops and stands there until two Stars drop gloves against him is jumping someone, I'd love to see your written definition of jumping. Because for some reason on my screen, it shows Bickel going into the scrum, just like every team after almost every whistle does, gets put into a headlock, and then two Stars drop gloves and attack him. Maybe it's just my screen - must be defective, or something.

My first thought is you heard the broadcasters instantly accuse Bickel, but then a few seconds later they even state that two Stars are fighting him. But yea, seems pretty dirty to me, to only be attacked by two guys.

Admit it your still just hurt that the team moved, the next nice thing you say about the Dallas Stars will be your first.
- tootooisapunk

So silly.

Admit it your still just hurt that the team moved, the next nice thing you say about the Dallas Stars will be your first.
- tootooisapunk

HA, Obviously everyone here is hurt the North Stars left here, not relevant at all to the conversation here...but hey go ahead, every other team in the central would agree Stars are the goons of this division.

Or Weber crosschecking Cooke, or Bickel having his hands held behind his back while another player punched him the face?

It's all relative, man. If two players are sitting there cross checking each other and a stick gets deflected high, that isn't a dirty play. An after-whistle scrum in front of the net isn't considered a dirty play unless dirty stuff happens - two guys fighting one, for example. The Wild see players getting smoked after the whistle every game, just like every team does. That isn't considered 'jumping' someone.

Edit: Here's your case of Bickel 'jumping' Demers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4TxDDAJXYM

If you can watch that and say that Bickel goes into the scrum, stops and stands there until two Stars drop gloves against him is jumping someone, I'd love to see your written definition of jumping. Because for some reason on my screen, it shows Bickel going into the scrum, just like every team after almost every whistle does, gets put into a headlock, and then two Stars drop gloves and attack him. Maybe it's just my screen - must be defective, or something.

My first thought is you heard the broadcasters instantly accuse Bickel, but then a few seconds later they even state that two Stars are fighting him. But yea, seems pretty dirty to me, to only be attacked by two guys.
- deslni01

Try watching the from about :15 -:30 where Bickel is throwing punches at Demers, while Daley is behind Demers, Bickel went out looking for a fight, the reason he got 2 misconducts was for going after a defenseless player. Just admit it, in this case he was the agressor, his late check into the goalie started it, and the Stars answered it. I am very surprised the Stars didn't get any calls for the end, when it was 2 on 1, but that is the end not the beginning.

Whatever man, good luck on your entire team being awarded the Lady Bing.

HA, Obviously everyone here is hurt the North Stars left here, not relevant at all to the conversation here...but hey go ahead, every other team in the central would agree Stars are the goons of this division.
- Minsoh

I'll stand by my original statement, the next will be the first, in reference to plenty of conversations prior to this one.

I'll stand by my original statement, the next will be the first, in reference to plenty of conversations prior to this one.
- tootooisapunk

Trying to hard friend....

I don't see what all the fuss is about? If this keeps up we're going to have McDavid or Eichel.

Keith Jones for NBC sports stating Suter threw a "sneaky, dirty elbow". Sorry, but IMO that's a little too quick of a conclusion to come to about a player who is certainly not known for even being all that physical, let alone dirty.

Whatever, it's a shot to the head no doubt, but I still don't believe he meant to connect with the head.
- MnGump

Phil Bourque called the exact same thing during the game when it happened & reiterated his comment when Downie went off.

Suter is a very very naughty boy.

I said it before the season and I've said it a hundred times since, but Kuemper should not have gotten as many starts as he did through the first half of the season. That's on Yeo. Very rarely can a young goaltender step into a starting role and succeed - our "target" Cam Ward is a perfect example. He had two good seasons to start his career, was thrust in the limelight, and when the team didn't perform in front of him he collapsed and hasn't recovered since. Fleury is another example (though this season he's performed well). The amount of head-games an NHL goalie has going on requires much more time to develop than any other position. Kuemper and dozens of other goalies in the league continue to show how significantly difficult it is for a young goalie to make the leap to an NHL starter. Pushing him has hurt him significantly and, historically, could ruin his career. Rather than being capable of a full-time starter, he will likely be a very solid backup. I could be wrong, though, but history has a strange tendency to repeat itself.
- deslni01

It may be on Yeo but it could be because he just really didn't trust Backstrom to give them a chance to win. Backstrom's reaction time looks noticeably slower to me and he also appears to be moving too much. When he was solid in goal I always thought he was great at limiting his movement to only what was needed. Now he looks to be overplaying it and moving too far out of position.

Where I think Yeo has some fault here is that he should be altering their defensive scheme to try to limit chances even more than they normally do. The team has to help Backstrom and Kuemper get out of this.

I respectfully disagree. Nothing about the replay says one way or the other, it's a difference of opinion. Therefore your assertion is no more valid than mine.
- MnGump

That's fair. But that comment he made about his elbow being out as a result of bringing his hand back onto his stick is what I think is totally unbelievable. I just think he lost his head there for a second and took a cheap shot.

Try watching the from about :15 -:30 where Bickel is throwing punches at Demers, while Daley is behind Demers, Bickel went out looking for a fight, the reason he got 2 misconducts was for going after a defenseless player. Just admit it, in this case he was the agressor, his late check into the goalie started it, and the Stars answered it. I am very surprised the Stars didn't get any calls for the end, when it was 2 on 1, but that is the end not the beginning.
- tootooisapunk

Bickel didn't check Daley into the goalie, that was Carter. We get it, you hate Bickel. But when something bad happens while he is on the ice not everyone is Bickel.

That's fair. But that comment he made about his elbow being out as a result of bringing his hand back onto his stick is what I think is totally unbelievable. I just think he lost his head there for a second and took a cheap shot.
- Chinaski

Yah, I agree with that. His explanation was a little on the dumb side. If it wasn't an attempt to take a cheap shot then just say yeah I threw my elbow out to try and disrupt play and caught his head instead of his shoulder.

I dunno. Whatever at this point. I'm just trying to figure out who to be mad at because we have roughly 39 more (now meaningless) games to play until this is all over with. I don't ever recall a period of time since the Wilds inception where they looked like this. I mean it's now clear to me that it's more the players fault right now than anyone. The talent level is there, the coaching was there at the end of last season and the beginning of this one. So it's about as clear as mud as to how to find a resolution or way out of this funk.

Bickel didn't check Daley into the goalie, that was Carter. We get it, you hate Bickel. But when something bad happens while he is on the ice not everyone is Bickel.
- Chinaski

Dude, Bickel is single handily responsible for the last recession, the Sony Hack, Global Warming...he is public enemy #1 the sooner you all realize this the better. Honestly I could care less he seems like a spare part at best, but I do have the check confused.

I really don't think anything the Wild have done is atrocious, every team has knuckleheads and reactionary nonsense. I just don't care some teams (Dallas) being called out for that nonsense and the Wild being portrayed as angels.

I dunno. Whatever at this point. I'm just trying to figure out who to be mad at because we have roughly 39 more (now meaningless) games to play until this is all over with. I don't ever recall a period of time since the Wilds inception where they looked like this. I mean it's now clear to me that it's more the players fault right now than anyone. The talent level is there, the coaching was there at the end of last season and the beginning of this one. So it's about as clear as mud as to how to find a resolution or way out of this funk.
- MnGump

Agreed. This is so frustrating to watch because it's difficult to understand what parts are really not working and what parts are more a result of the other problems.

I think Fletcher hasn't made moves to this point because they really believe that with more solid goaltending the team would have more confidence that playing the system would actually get them results. Right now, even if they play near perfect, it's a 50-50 game. There is almost zero reward for playing their best. It can't be easy to give their very best game in and game out when that is the case.

And who knows what those trade calls are like at this point. Probably something like give me two good, young roster players for a middling goalie that might help you finish 19th in the league.

What might pull them out of this funk a little is when they are really out of playoff contention. We all know they are at this point, but mathematically they can sit there and say they still have a chance. Once it's more of a mathematical reality maybe we'll see guys play the system better and then it will be easier to determine if this is simply a goaltending problem or just as much a personnel problem.

This is the time to figure that out. It's time to identify the young guys that you really see as being critical to the core and then if there are guys who aren't cutting it, try moving them out. That is if Leipold doesn't just want to completely clean house.

Dude, Bickel is single handily responsible for the last recession, the Sony Hack, Global Warming...he is public enemy #1 the sooner you all realize this the better.
- tootooisapunk

Hockey is just a hobby for him. Something to keep the weight down.