Why are we back to goons?
We dont need them.
End of discussion

Which is the huge flaw in this argument. Case in point: The Leafs have had a PDO of over 1.01 for the past 3 seasons (with a best in the league 1.3 in 2012). If a team is well above average for that long, can it still be called luck or do they maybe have players more capable of burying chances and/or stopping pucks than most teams in general?
- 1979AD

Fail.
Sample size not big enough.

The 14 game sample size from last year's collapse PROVES advanced stats were right all along.

false again. Some guys is face washing a player and orr skates over...it stops.
- TincupCanuck

OH NO HE GOT FACEWASHED.

Stand up for your own damn self or don't retaliate and hopefully the other guy gets a penalty. Who cares?

Why are we back to goons?
We dont need them.
End of discussion
- Fakepartofme

cuz they would still suck but be funner to watch

It isn't the goons that are the problem it is that the goons don't goon it up anymore.

If you had goons who you would sacrifice to suspension for ruly worthwhile cheapshots, like head-shots, knee on knee, or crosschecks to the mouth, then you probably would deter stuff eventually.
- Aetherial

Yup. But they don't get paid when they're suspended, and most of them make close to the league minimum and pay 14% of their salary into escrow too. Tough to convince a guy to take that hit for the team.

Yup. But they don't get paid when they're suspended, and most of them make close to the league minimum and pay 14% of their salary into escrow too. Tough to convince a guy to take that hit for the team.
- 1979AD

I bet you could find LOTS of guys to make the league minimum -14% escrow, -50% for suspensions who would go out and cross-check a Lucic in the mouth.

cuz they would still suck but be funner to watch
- wingz4life

Not really though.

Pointless fights.....are still pointless and dont bring any value to the game...IMO

I bet you could find LOTS of guys to make the league minimum -14% escrow, -50% for suspensions who would go out and cross-check a Lucic in the mouth.
- Aetherial

Sure but nobody wants to be on the one team in the league that employs a guy who's only job is to hurt people.

I bet you could find LOTS of guys to make the league minimum -14% escrow, -50% for suspensions who would go out and cross-check a Lucic in the mouth.
- Aetherial

Good point. I'd do it for a $20 Tim's card.




Not really, but I know a guy who would! That Veronica Vaughn is one fine piece of ass!

Sure but nobody wants to be on the one team in the league that employs a guy who's only job is to hurt people.
- BINGO!

We're talking Lucic here, it's not like it's a real person...

Sure but nobody wants to be on the one team in the league that employs a guy who's only job is to hurt people.
- BINGO!

No no no you have it all wrong... you get 3 or 4 of those guys. Then, when a Gionta runs your goalie, you break his jaw. Do that to 3 or 4 teams and maybe people stop taking liberties.

Teams sure feel free to push around the Leafs now.

Panik's not scoring all his points playing the minutes McLaren/Orr got.

He's been moved up and down the lineup.
- Garnie

Paniks getting ruined by playing with Mr. I can't stand on my own two skates.

No no no you have it all wrong... you get 3 or 4 of those guys. Then, when a Gionta runs your goalie, you break his jaw. Do that to 3 or 4 teams and maybe people stop taking liberties.

Teams sure feel free to push around the Leafs now.
- Aetherial

Just not possible in a cap world....and do you really want to be known as a useless goon team?

Paniks getting ruined by playing with Mr. I can't stand on my own two skates.
- mykokes

He used to be able to do this, did he not? And if not, do the Leafs not scout their potential UFA signings?

The goon is hamstrung by the leagues instigator and have slowly faded from teams because they don't have guys that will fight them very often, however intimidation is still very much a factor in hockey, and though they won't fight much they still provide this measure... If you can get a guy that can play hockey and score and intimidate you do it, but even if the guy doesn't score, better to have him than some bum that skates around and doesn't intimidate all year and getting 5-10 points...

Well I see you guys have licked all the windex
off the back of the short bus !

Well I see you guys have licked all the windex
off the back of the short bus !
- .HOHO.

Do you have more windex?

Same to you...... The fact is NOTHING happened when Orr and the like were here. It changes nothing.


You haven't made any significant point. Your opinion is not fact.
- burn

having a tough line-up - with at least one tough defender (Fraser) only happened during the lock-out season... and guess what that coincides with making playoffs.

the truth is that the game is too fast for guys like Orr, perhaps McLaren could contribute 6-7 minutes a night... but in the current version of the game the only way to have a real meaningful physicality in the line-up is if you have top 6 wingers who can look after themselves - e.g. Lucic.

the manner in which the rules are interpreted now doesn't allow for out and out goons any longer... and we all know what happens when you shorten your bench too much.

let's hope one of Broll or Devane can become a useful fourth line player - or Biggs somehow turns into a useful third liner.

I think people are confusing fighters and goons.

Fighters aren't useful because they need a fighter partner or they just cost you a penalty for instigating. fighter vs. fighter doesn't really address the problem of people running your goalie or wiping out a player by hitting him in the head from behind.

If the league is going to let any player who headshots a Leaf walk away scott-free, then the answer is to get a huge goon to injure the offender next time.

You can bet Ovechkin would pay attention next time if he spent 2 months eating through a straw.

No no no you have it all wrong... you get 3 or 4 of those guys. Then, when a Gionta runs your goalie, you break his jaw. Do that to 3 or 4 teams and maybe people stop taking liberties.

Teams sure feel free to push around the Leafs now.
- Aetherial

La is stacked with toughness

The end

Just not possible in a cap world....and do you really want to be known as a useless goon team?
- Fakepartofme

Championship team >> more fun than Useless goon team >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The Current Leafs

I think people are confusing fighters and goons.

Fighters aren't useful because they need a goon partner or they just cost you a penalty for instigating. Goon vs. Goon doesn't really address the problem of people running your goalie or wiping out a player by hitting him in the head from behind.

If the league is going to let any player who headshots a Leaf walk away scott-free, then the answer is to get a huge goon to injure the offender next time.

You cna bet Ovechkin would pay attention next time if he spent 2 months eating through a straw.
- Aetherial

His hit on Komagod...wasnt really a cheap shot.

His hit on Komagod...wasnt really a cheap shot.
- Fakepartofme

yeah, we aren't going to agree on that one.

Paniks getting ruined by playing with Mr. I can't stand on my own two skates.
- mykokes

true, I think Panik's sign was when he got waived.

His hit on Komagod...wasnt really a cheap shot.
- Fakepartofme

Huh?