Hell, I'm one of Berube's harsher critics and even I wouldn't replace him now.

And if I was GM, I'd tell the beat guys that I was gonna keep him as coach for at least another year. Zero need to tip your hand in public, especially with this media group.

I'm amazed that they haven't turned Mason into the second coming o Cechmanek or Bryzgalov yet, because he's made statements after games about the team playing better and needing to work harder.

If Bryz said that, correct or not, he'd be strung up by the media that covers this team,
- Jsaquella

Mason doesnt have an accent

Mason doesnt have an accent
- KINGKENZO

First off some people here are rooting against the Flyers. Your not caring is a weak way of saying it as well in my opinion but take it or leave it. Does it make you less of a fan to hope your team loses to be better next year? What is happening in BUF are some fans are actively rooting against their team and saying they are the true fans because they are the ones looking to brighter days and helping the team. Secondly, I did not make any suggestions as to a solution. I pointed out a problem. You have pointed out a good problem as well, ensuring parity. So let's have a system that does both. Or does less bad. Maybe a sliding/weighted scale with regard to your last five drafts, or bottom five all have an equal chance at #1, or a system of most points earned after being eliminated, or something more clever. You're a smart guy, have at it. Anyways I'm off so I can't finish this conversation. Will be interesting tonight to see two teams struggling: go Bufalyers!
- coffee junkie

Well then.

Here's the problem though. As long as the poorer teams get the better draft picks, no matter the system in place, people are going to want that high draft pick. Therefore, people might be not pissed off when their favorite team loses.

I'm not rooting for the Sabres. I am a Flyers fan through and through. I watch every game I can, even when they suck nutsack like this season. I root for them during the game, and want them to win. Losing sucks.

But, I'm not at the point of throwing things at the wall this year. It's not worth it. The light at the end of the tunnel that is this season is a good draft pick- if more losses means a better draft pick, then so be. If they lose 7-2, I'll laugh it off and say "man...they really are bad this year. (frank)." and then move on with my life. And I'll be happy if they win.

Again. No matter the system, there will always be my thought process out there, provided bad teams are in the running for higher picks.

They also have a hard time attracting quality free agents, don't trade to address team needs and rarely ever draft D men in the first round.
- hereticpride

... and they've been pretty bad at hitting w/ all those picks they have, too.

They're an outlier... vast majority of team that have had top-5 picks since 2006 have shown dramatic and sustained improvement. 'Hawks, Bruins, Kings, Caps, Pens, Bolts, Preds, Habs, Isles... are all the cream of the crop today. Avs, Jets, Cats and Jackets are all on the upswing. Phoenix has been a PO team despite everything going against them off the ice.

Oiler are the only ones who are hopeless... let's stop using them as an example to discount 'tanking' please.

... and they've been pretty bad at hitting w/ all those picks they have, too.

They're an outlier... vast majority of team that have had top-5 picks since 2006 have shown dramatic and sustained improvement. 'Hawks, Bruins, Kings, Caps, Pens, Bolts, Preds, Habs, Isles... are all the cream of the crop right today. Avs, Jets, Cats and Jackets are all on the upswing. Phoenix has been a PO team despite everything going against them off the ice.

Oiler are the only ones who are hopeless... let's stop using them as an example to discount 'tanking' please.
- Tomahawk

Statistically, the Oilers are an anomaly and are rendered irrelevant as such. Thank you.

... and they've been pretty bad at hitting w/ all those picks they have, too.

They're an outlier... vast majority of team that have had top-5 picks since 2006 have shown dramatic and sustained improvement. 'Hawks, Bruins, Kings, Caps, Pens, Bolts, Preds, Habs, Isles... are all the cream of the crop today. Avs, Jets, Cats and Jackets are all on the upswing. Phoenix has been a PO team despite everything going against them off the ice.

Oiler are the only ones who are hopeless... let's stop using them as an example to discount 'tanking' please.
- Tomahawk

Let's not stop using them as an example to discount tanking, because they're the perfect example to show and illustrate what the point is. Which is just having high draft picks doesn't guarantee anything. A team still has to make the right picks, develop the players, and select the right mix of players.
And all of those teams don't compare in how high of a draft position over a number years, as Edmonton has had.

Let's not stop using them as an example to discount tanking, because they're the perfect example to show and illustrate what the point is. Which is just having high draft picks doesn't guarantee anything. A team still has to make the right picks, develop the players, and select the right mix of players.
And all of those teams don't compare in how high of a draft position over a number years, as Edmonton has had.
- MJL

Almost all of the teams I listed above have had multiple top-5 picks since the Crosby draft -- including all the best teams of the past few seasons: LA, CHI, BOS and PIT.

Let me ask you one simple question: organizationally, what do the the Oilers and Flyers have in common?*


* - hint: the answer is nothing.

Well then.

Here's the problem though. As long as the poorer teams get the better draft picks, no matter the system in place, people are going to want that high draft pick. Therefore, people might be not pissed off when their favorite team loses.

I'm not rooting for the Sabres. I am a Flyers fan through and through. I watch every game I can, even when they suck nutsack like this season. I root for them during the game, and want them to win. Losing sucks.

But, I'm not at the point of throwing things at the wall this year. It's not worth it. The light at the end of the tunnel that is this season is a good draft pick- if more losses means a better draft pick, then so be. If they lose 7-2, I'll laugh it off and say "man...they really are bad this year. (frank)." and then move on with my life. And I'll be happy if they win.

Again. No matter the system, there will always be my thought process out there, provided bad teams are in the running for higher picks.
- Giroux_Is_God

Almost all of the teams I listed above have had multiple top-5 picks since the Crosby draft -- including all the best teams of the past few seasons: LA, CHI, BOS and PIT.

Let me ask you one simple question: organizationally, what do the the Oilers and Flyers have in common?
- Tomahawk

Edmonton had the top pick 3 years in a row I believe, not to mention multiple other picks in the top 10. I think the Islanders and Pittsburgh are the only team that comes close, and maybe Boston for a few years are comparable. In terms of what each team has accomplished, some haven't accomplished much. Bottom line is that having a bunch of top picks doesn't guarantee anything.

Look at Edmonton, in the last 8 drafts they've selected 3rd, 7th, 1st, 1st, 1st, 10th, 6th, and 22nd. Yet they still suck, and are in position for the first overall pick again.
- MJL

Yea. Look at the raiders too. Some organizations are just horribly run and don't accurately reflect what SHOULD happen to an organization if they finish really low

Edmonton had the top pick 3 years in a row I believe, not to mention multiple other picks in the top 10. I think the Islanders are the only team that comes close, and maybe Boston for a few years are comparable. In terms of what each team has accomplished, some haven't accomplished much. Bottom line is that having a bunch of top picks doesn't guarantee anything.
- MJL

Guarantees nothing but the odds are good.

Cue "Never tell MJL the odds." post.

Bottom line is that having a bunch of top picks doesn't guarantee anything.
- MJL

It's as close to a guarantee as you can get in this league.

It's as close to a guarantee as you can get in this league.
- Tomahawk

Not at all a guarantee, nor is tanking necessary to build a top team. Phoenix is another team that has had a lot of high picks, and hasn't done squat.

Not at all a guarantee, nor is tanking necessary to build a top team.
- MJL

Name me one team that's won the Cup in the salary cap era that hasn't had top-5 picks in the years leading up to their Cup win.

Phoenix is another team that has had a lot of high picks, and hasn't done squat.
- MJL

Only one top-5 pick, and that came in a weak draft (Turris).

Name me one team that's won the Cup in the salary cap era that hasn't had top-5 picks in the years leading up to their Cup win.




Only one top-5 pick, and that came in a weak draft (Turris).
- Tomahawk

That is changing the conversation. The point isn't that having top 5 picks can't or won't help a team get to the top of the heap. The point is that having the top picks isn't a guarantee. Phoenix has had a number of high picks in the recent past. And the Turris pick reinforces my point.

3 years in a row, Phoenix had the 8th, 3rd, and then 8th again overall pick. They drafted Peter Mueller, Kyle Turris, and Mikkel Boedker. They aren't remotely close to being a top team.
Phoenix's draft record is poor overall.

Oh please. What other way is there to do it?

This is the best system. It protects the parity. It's not broken so don't fix it.

No one in here is rooting against the flyers. There's a difference between wanting your team to lose and not caring if they lose.
- Giroux_Is_God

I think it'd be better if the top 5 picks were all up for the lotto. The NHL can keep the odds as they are now since it isn't too weighted, but now there is way less incentive for a team to lose. The worst team still is guaranteed to get the 6th pick at the very least.

In some way this system might have helped the Oilers. Elite forwards (as a whole anyway) are always going to be easier to predict than other positions. Edmonton has drafted with the BAP method, which I agree with, but they have gotten too many players with the same skill set. Drop back a few picks maybe they could have drafted more D-men like they did with Nurse.

I do understand a team can trade the top pick or prospect, but it seems like every GM won't make a trade they don't outright win anymore

well put....not as much invested in the outcomes this year for sure.....funny how i want the high pick but i get pumped when the flyers score!! i agree that you absolutely cannot have the bubble team get the first pick......unless it's a year when the flyers were the bubble team

Well then.

Here's the problem though. As long as the poorer teams get the better draft picks, no matter the system in place, people are going to want that high draft pick. Therefore, people might be not pissed off when their favorite team loses.

I'm not rooting for the Sabres. I am a Flyers fan through and through. I watch every game I can, even when they suck nutsack like this season. I root for them during the game, and want them to win. Losing sucks.

But, I'm not at the point of throwing things at the wall this year. It's not worth it. The light at the end of the tunnel that is this season is a good draft pick- if more losses means a better draft pick, then so be. If they lose 7-2, I'll laugh it off and say "man...they really are bad this year. (frank)." and then move on with my life. And I'll be happy if they win.

Again. No matter the system, there will always be my thought process out there, provided bad teams are in the running for higher picks.
- Giroux_Is_God

I think it'd be better if the top 5 picks were all up for the lotto. The NHL can keep the odds as they are now since it isn't too weighted, but now there is way less incentive for a team to lose. The worst team still is guaranteed to get the 6th pick at the very least.

In some way this system might have helped the Oilers. Elite forwards (as a whole anyway) are always going to be easier to predict than other positions. Edmonton has drafted with the BAP method, which I agree with, but they have gotten too many players with the same skill set. Drop back a few picks maybe they could have drafted more D-men like they did with Nurse.

I do understand a team can trade the top pick or prospect, but it seems like every GM won't make a trade they don't outright win anymore
- mmcclatchy

I agree with this and I feel the NBA should adopt this same approach

Kimmo coming back to help this team win pointless games will not sit well with me. If he can still play he moves front and center on the trading block.
- hereticpride

There's nothing I'd like to see more than that Cagey 'ol Veteran returning to our locker room. Having said that, there's nothing I'd like to see less than to have this great player (whom I respect tremendously) return to a locker room that is full of apathy. This is not a suitable environment for a guy like him. He deserves more.

Had to be away through no fault of his own and not one single player or member of management or coaching stepped up to ensure the atmosphere and accountability that he is accustomed to in that locker room were preserved.

He claims he wants to retire with his skates on....I, for one, wouldn't mind seeing him lacing them up for a team that at least tries to look like they care.

That is changing the conversation. The point isn't that having top 5 picks can't or won't help a team get to the top of the heap. The point is that having the top picks isn't a guarantee. Phoenix has had a number of high picks in the recent past. And the Turris pick reinforces my point.

3 years in a row, Phoenix had the 8th, 3rd, and then 8th again overall pick. They drafted Peter Mueller, Kyle Turris, and Mikkel Boedker. They aren't remotely close to being a top team.

Over their entire draft history, they've drafted horrendously.
- MJL

And the Flyers have drafted splendidly, and aren't a bankrupt franchise on the brink of relocation who's operations will be taken over by the league. It's a pointless comparison.

And the Flyers have drafted splendidly, and aren't a bankrupt franchise on the brink of relocation who's operations will be taken over by the league. It's a pointless comparison.
- Tomahawk

The discussion wasn't about how each franchise was run financially. It was about how having high draft picks isn't a guarantee of anything. This is again, taking the conversation in a different direction. It is not a pointless comparison when looking at draft record. That Phoenix selected Boedker, Turris, and Mueller with 3 high picks has squat to do with their financial situation.

There's nothing I'd like to see more than that Cagey 'ol Veteran returning to our locker room. Having said that, there's nothing I'd like to see less than to have this great player (whom I respect tremendously) return to a locker room that is full of apathy. This is not a suitable environment for a guy like him. He deserves more.

Had to be away through no fault of his own and not one single player or member of management or coaching stepped up to ensure the atmosphere and accountability that he is accustomed to in that locker room were preserved.

He claims he wants to retire with his skates on....I, for one, wouldn't mind seeing him lacing them up for a team that at least tries to look like they care.
- dmorin

I would emphatically disagree that the Flyers locker room is full of apathy. I don't believe that to be the case.

Measuring stick game?
- Tomahawk

might as well play the phantoms

The discussion wasn't about how each franchise was run financially. It was about how having high draft picks isn't a guarantee of anything. This is again, taking the conversation in a different direction. It is not a pointless comparison when looking at draft record. That Phoenix selected Boedker, Turris, and Mueller with 3 high picks has squat to do with their financial situation.
- MJL

(you know Mueller and Turris left over money, right?)




Why not look at teams that a) have a history of drafting well, b) have similar market/organizational circumstances as the Flyers, and c) have actually had multiple top-5 picks since 2005?

That would seem to lend itself better to predictive analysis than trying to build a case on outliers and opposites.

(you know Mueller and Turris left over money, right?)




Why not look at teams that have a) have a history of drafting well, b) have similar market/organizational circumstances as the Flyers, and c) have actually had multiple top-5 picks since 2005?

That would seem to lend itself better to predictive analysis than trying to build a case on outliers and opposites.
- Tomahawk

When looking at the impact of having high draft picks on a team, excluding teams that haven't drafted well defeats the purpose. The teams that haven't drafted well make the point that just having the picks doesn't guarantee anything. How strong of a hockey market a team is in, has nothing to do with drafting well.