glad i'm not a packers fan right now. un(frank)ingbelievable.
- hammarby31

that tight end who had the on side kick go right through his hands

Kings call tomorrow and offer their first for coburn, do you take it?
- stayinthefnnet

Yes, assuming they are the only ones willing to offer a first

Yup. I'm totally happy with riding these contracts out to get them out of the way asap. As depressing as continuing to watch VL, Umby, etc will be.
- Tomahawk

Unless there a deal out there for a guy who is a legit number one defenseman, and you need an extra $2mm, fine, buy RJ out. It fills a big hole and it's worth it.

But don't stick yourself with cap penalties for minimal upgrades. It's part of how the Flyers built one of the most expensive defenses in the NHL without having a legit number one guy in the mix.

Kings call tomorrow and offer their first for coburn, do you take it?
- stayinthefnnet

I might get greedy and ask for Nick Ebert too, but would still be driving Coburn to the airport if they said no.

They're last on the PK. They want to play a tighter checking system. They will need to make some roster adjustments to bring in those kind of players
- AllInForFlyers

There's going to be some changes made, there always is. The PK can theoretically improve without adding any players, simply from playing better on the PK. Adding a top defenseman is probably a better approach, but hard to find.

Kings call tomorrow and offer their first for coburn, do you take it?
- stayinthefnnet

Very likely. I'd try to get them to add a prospect or another pick, but I probably would say yes.

I'm not in a rush to deal Coburn, though. He's signed to a very workable deal next season.

Horrible coaching by GB. I dont understsnd how you dont keep attacking Sherman after he hurt his arm. Great job by Seattle.
- KINGKENZO

Not only that, but how do you put a defense out at that spot on the field without a deep safety?

Good luck getting anyone to take Umberger.

I'm not even sure that they can move Grossmann. I bring up the Bryan Allen example again, if he clears waivers, why would anyone trade for Grossmann.

Schenn might be tradeable. Not sure he is, though.
- Jsaquella

I'd trade Umberger for a swift kick in the nads, it would be a good deal

They still have them. They're not moving them, they're stuck with them.

If you have one bad or questionable deal, it's not a big deal. But the Flyers have a decent amount.

Vinny, Umberger for sure. MacDonald is at least questionable. Grossmann and Luke Schenn are not good deals for what they bring-even if they were market value when signed.

That's the issue facing the Flyers. They don't have a Clarkson or a Stalberg. They have 3 or 4 of them.
- Jsaquella

Grossmann and Schenn aren't bad deals. Really the only bad contracts the Flyers have in my opinion are Umberger and Lecavalier.

I'd trade Umberger for a swift kick in the nads, it would be a good deal
- BiggE

If they take the whole contract, sure.

I'm not eager to lose Streit or Coburn. But those two have the most value. They're capable NHL defensemen, but none are irreplaceable.
- Jsaquella

if we are talking about a stop-gap defense for a few years until the kids are ready than streit's age doesn't bother me too much, i think he's stepped in kimmo's skates more seamlessly than i was expecting.

coburn has value and as long as he isn't asking for too much i'd rather have him and streit help usher in the young defense prospects than say luke schenn, carlo and MDZ. we all trash coburn but i think him and streit would be great to shoulder the weight during the "waiting" years and to teach these kids about being pros and having composure. to have two guys like them show these kids the ropes wouldn't be the worst thing in the world.

no, the worst thing in the world (from a maturity standpoint and being good mentors) would be for those kids to come into a team where the elder statesmen of their d-core is carlo and MDZ--the only thing you can learn from MDZ at the moment is how NOT to use Twitter

Grossmann and Schenn aren't bad deals. Really the only bad contracts the Flyers have in my opinion are Umberger and Lecavalier.
- MJL

And Amac

Kings call tomorrow and offer their first for coburn, do you take it?
- stayinthefnnet

Yes

And Amac
- aflyerpower8

Not going to get him to agree to that.

Very likely. I'd try to get them to add a prospect or another pick, but I probably would say yes.

I'm not in a rush to deal Coburn, though. He's signed to a very workable deal next season.
- Jsaquella

i know he is. that adds to his value and thus the difficulty of the hypo

And Amac
- aflyerpower8

He's a little overpaid, but I don't think it's bad deal. He's a solid top 4 puck moving defenseman who is playing well for the Flyers.

if we are talking about a stop-gap defense for a few years until the kids are ready than streit's age doesn't bother me too much, i think he's stepped in kimmo's skates more seamlessly than i was expecting.

coburn has value and as long as he isn't asking for too much i'd rather have him and streit help usher in the young defense prospects than say luke schenn, carlo and MDZ. we all trash coburn but i think him and streit would be great to shoulder the weight during the "waiting" years and to teach these kids about being pros and having composure. to have two guys like them show these kids the ropes wouldn't be the worst thing in the world.

no, the worst thing in the world (from a maturity standpoint and being good mentors) would be for those kids to come into a team where the elder statesmen of their d-core is carlo and MDZ--the only thing you can learn from MDZ at the moment is how NOT to use Twitter
- black_francis

Del Zotto has been playing really well lately, and was the team's best defenseman last night. It was against Buffalo, but still.

if we are talking about a stop-gap defense for a few years until the kids are ready than streit's age doesn't bother me too much, i think he's stepped in kimmo's skates more seamlessly than i was expecting.

coburn has value and as long as he isn't asking for too much i'd rather have him and streit help usher in the young defense prospects than say luke schenn, carlo and MDZ. we all trash coburn but i think him and streit would be great to shoulder the weight during the "waiting" years and to teach these kids about being pros and having composure. to have two guys like them show these kids the ropes wouldn't be the worst thing in the world.

no, the worst thing in the world (from a maturity standpoint and being good mentors) would be for those kids to come into a team where the elder statesmen of their d-core is carlo and MDZ--the only thing you can learn from MDZ at the moment is how NOT to use Twitter
- black_francis

They are fine to help with the transitional period, but if I can turn one or both into additional 1st round picks in a deep draft, I do it.

I'm not trashing either, because I like both guys. But the chances a 39 year old Streit is still effective when they're a contender are slim. As for Coburn, I'm not eager to pay him Staal money.

Also, if they were to trade Streit or Coburn, there's money freed up to sign a free agent or trade for another solid veteran to fill the leadership void.

Nobody's saying to trade Streit and hand his role to MDZ.

They are fine to help with the transitional period, but if I can turn one or both into additional 1st round picks in a deep draft, I do it.

I'm not trashing either, because I like both guys. But the chances a 39 year old Streit is still effective when they're a contender are slim. As for Coburn, I'm not eager to pay him Staal money.

Also, if they were to trade Streit or Coburn, there's money freed up to sign a free agent or trade for another solid veteran to fill the leadership void.

Nobody's saying to trade Streit and hand his role to MDZ.
- Jsaquella

As long as Streit stays healthy, I don't see why he can't remain effective as an offensive defenseman. He hasn't played a ton of NHL games for a player his age.

That's vital moving forward. But they also can't be cavalier about how they handle the bad or questionable deals on hand. Can't accept 6 years of a Vinny buyout just so you can add a guy that will get you good enough to be playoff fodder in round one next year, and then make it hard to lock up guys like Voracek , Couturier & Bryaden Schenn when they hit FA.
- Jsaquella

That's just not true -- I'm sorry, but it isn't. Because making the playoffs has to be something you're trying to do. That phrase "playoff fodder" just is overused and overplayed.

Look at Washington. Yeah, they paid a ton of money to Orpik and Niskanen, and Orpik's contract isn't ideal. If you call it a bad contract, I won't argue it.

But at the same point, what's worse: Missing the playoffs and paying Alex Ovechkin $10 million per season? Just to hold onto some mythical reward of a lot of cap space?

You cannot operate a professional sports franchise in some ideal world that doesn't exist, where you have perfect contracts AND all your draft picks AND a never-ending supply of young players AND cap space. There are no teams out there who have that.

They don't give you awards for how highly you draft, or how much cap space you have. You have to try to win -- that's the whole point of this stuff.

And Amac
- aflyerpower8

They're paying $3.6mm to a guy who is a semi-regular healthy scratch and another $3.5mm to a guy who is limited by his injuries and puck moving ability and is best suited to being a third pair defenseman.

Those aren't good contracts for what the Flyers are getting out of them.

I think MacDonald is a bad deal as well, but that fight's been had 100 times too many.

I'd trade Umberger for a swift kick in the nads, it would be a good deal
- BiggE

It would be a steal!

That's just not true -- I'm sorry, but it isn't. Because making the playoffs has to be something you're trying to do. That phrase "playoff fodder" just is overused and overplayed.

Look at Washington. Yeah, they paid a ton of money to Orpik and Niskanen, and Orpik's contract isn't ideal. If you call it a bad contract, I won't argue it.

But at the same point, what's worse: Missing the playoffs and paying Alex Ovechkin $10 million per season? Just to hold onto some mythical reward of a lot of cap space?

You cannot operate a professional sports franchise in some ideal world that doesn't exist, where you have perfect contracts AND all your draft picks AND a never-ending supply of young players AND cap space. There are no teams out there who have that.

They don't give you awards for how highly you draft, or how much cap space you have. You have to try to win -- that's the whole point of this stuff.
- AllInForFlyers

Very well said. Many said that the Caps overpaid Orpik and it was a bad deal, but he has made a difference for the Caps. That and a commitment to playing better 2 way hockey as a team, which Orpik is a big part of. When you have a need, you have to pay for it.

They're paying $3.6mm to a guy who is a semi-regular healthy scratch and another $3.5mm to a guy who is limited by his injuries and puck moving ability and is best suited to being a third pair defenseman.

Those aren't good contracts for what the Flyers are getting out of them.

I think MacDonald is a bad deal as well, but that fight's been had 100 times too many.
- Jsaquella

I expect one of Grossmann or Schenn to be moved at some point.

They're paying $3.6mm to a guy who is a semi-regular healthy scratch and another $3.5mm to a guy who is limited by his injuries and puck moving ability and is best suited to being a third pair defenseman.

Those aren't good contracts for what the Flyers are getting out of them.

I think MacDonald is a bad deal as well, but that fight's been had 100 times too many.
- Jsaquella

True, but at least the term isn't bad for the others.