Again, totally agree. It just seems that some are better at it. Look at Boston, they brought in Iginla, signed him to a big incentive deal, and they didn't win the Cup. This year they're stuck with a 4M cap hit. They had to trade Boychuk due to cap space. It is different in that the 4M cap hit is one year, versus signing a player to along term deal that doesn't work out, and they did get some draft picks for Boychuck, but it did hurt them. I think the idea is to limit the damage as much as possible and take acceptable losses.
- MJL

Exactly -- there's only one champion each year. Most of them have traits we all know, #1 defensemen and what-not, but there's no way to know who's going to win.

Los Angeles was getting annihilated by San Jose last year. They looked like they were getting swept. Nobody was saying they were going to rally from 3-0 down. But they did, won the Cup.

And look at them now. They are aching to get out from under Mike Richards' deal -- and he's helped them win!

Nobody is perfect in this stuff

OEL is 22 and is on his 2nd NHL contract out of his EL deal. If OEL was MacDonald's age, and a pending UFA, he would cost a lot more to re-sign then what MacDonald got. The two deals aren't comparable for those reasons.
- MJL

McDonagh?

How about the entire Red Wing defense?

If a player like Boychuk is available in free agency, and the cost isn't sky high, I think about getting into the bidding. If I can move one of Schenn or Grossmann, and have to buy out Umberger to add Boychuk, I would do it.

I'm fine with making the big deal to bring in the final piece, but when they are a realistic contender.

Right now, they're not a realistic contender. They're likely two to three years away from being a realistic contender. That's why Hextall is preaching patience. That's why he hasn't made any short term deals to help them squeak into the playoff this season.

All I'm talking about is being smart. Don't trade assets at the deadline for guys who are marginal upgrades, unless you really can get over the top with a more solid third pair. You make the big deal when you need a scorer like Carter or Gaborik to get to the SCF, not when you need to squeak into the playoffs.

If all you're doing is creating four years of dead cap space with a buyout to add a marginal upgrade like Paul Martin, congrats, you'll make the playoffs and maybe win a round.

Then, you have to either re-sign Voracek, B. Schenn, Couturier & Coburn or trade some of them away, because you have dead space on the cap and paid a premium for a solid number 2 defenseman. You took one step forward to take 3 back.

Now, if you have a deal to add a legitimate number one defenseman and need an extra $2mm to make it work, yeah, I'd much more strongly consider an immediate buyout. Otherwise, no, because all you are doing is creating a trouble spot you have to navigate later, without making the team significantly better.
- Jsaquella

But JSaq, see, that's how winning becomes revisionist history -- they ABSOLUTELY traded for Jeff Carter because they didn't think they were going to make the playoffs! They were the eighth seed that year!

Same with Gaborik -- they weren't scoring enough to ensure they were going to make it last year, so they pulled the trigger.

Those weren't deals to put them over the top -- they were straight-up "we might not make the playoffs if we don't do something." In Carter's case, there was talk that Dean Lombardi was going to get fired if they missed!

If a player like Boychuk is available in free agency, and the cost isn't sky high, I think about getting into the bidding. If I can move one of Schenn or Grossmann, and have to buy out Umberger to add Boychuk, I would do it.
- MJL

Agree... Anything that involves the words " Umberger and out"... I am in!

McDonagh?
- 77rams

Same situation, re-signed as an RFA. If he was a UFA, he's looking at 7+ if not more. Same if OEL was a free agent. That's the accurate comparison, what those players would get as a free agent if anyone wants to compare to what MacDonald got.

It's a bad deal, no question.

He's being paid OEL money which is ludicrous.
- 77rams

Since the RFA vs UFA argument has already been made, I'll use a UFA. Anton Stralman. FA the same summer as MacDonald. Similar or better player. Getting $1mm less per year for 1 fewer years.

Dan Boyle, an older guy, who certainly isn't a long term fix, but still a very good player got 2 years, $4.5mm

The Flyers are paying a premium for a guy who, in the general consensus is, at best a decent 4th defenseman

Also, if they were to trade Streit or Coburn, there's money freed up to sign a free agent or trade for another solid veteran to fill the leadership void.

Nobody's saying to trade Streit and hand his role to MDZ.
- Jsaquella

my point is that i think it's important to create and maintain a good environment for when the prospects do start funneling in. keeping coburn and streit would accomplish this more so than keeping amac and grossman. and by moving amac or grossman for a bag of pucks you can still save money and go out and get a less expensive veteran.

is moving amac and grossman going to be MUCH harder? probably, but you just have to be willing to take almost anything and just convince yourself that coburn and streit are worth keeping simply for the minutes they log and the culture in the room they create.

Exactly -- there's only one champion each year. Most of them have traits we all know, #1 defensemen and what-not, but there's no way to know who's going to win.

Los Angeles was getting annihilated by San Jose last year. They looked like they were getting swept. Nobody was saying they were going to rally from 3-0 down. But they did, won the Cup.

And look at them now. They are aching to get out from under Mike Richards' deal -- and he's helped them win!

Nobody is perfect in this stuff
- AllInForFlyers

Well the only thing I will say, is that it is a lot easier to deal with players that are contract issues, if you've won 2 Stanley Cups recently.
I love the Flyers because they always try and win. They've come close but came up short a bunch of times. I'd rather have a team that does that, then one that never goes for it, and always has a bunch of unused cap space each year.
I don't want the Flyers to stop making moves, I just want them to make more right moves. I think patience is needed, but there is a price to pay for sitting back and waiting also. Especially if some players don't pan out.

Since the RFA vs UFA argument has already been made, I'll use a UFA. Anton Stralman. FA the same summer as MacDonald. Similar or better player. Getting $1mm less per year for 1 fewer years.

Dan Boyle, an older guy, who certainly isn't a long term fix, but still a very good player got 2 years, $4.5mm

The Flyers are paying a premium for a guy who, in the general consensus is, at best a decent 4th defenseman
- Jsaquella

When I saw what Stralman got it really P'D me off more about the Happy Meal contract. Stralman is simply a better player, and a guy I would much rather have on this team

Since the RFA vs UFA argument has already been made, I'll use a UFA. Anton Stralman. FA the same summer as MacDonald. Similar or better player. Getting $1mm less per year for 1 fewer years.

Dan Boyle, an older guy, who certainly isn't a long term fix, but still a very good player got 2 years, $4.5mm

The Flyers are paying a premium for a guy who, in the general consensus is, at best a decent 4th defenseman
- Jsaquella

What about Ehrhoff? Signed a one year deal for 4 million. Far better player than MacDonald.

What about Ehrhoff? Signed a one year deal for 4 million. Far better player than MacDonald.
- PLindbergh31

He gave them a deal. He would have gotten much more if he wanted.

2 assists this afternoon for Morin

&

Sanheim is missing another game today, nothing at the moment for Fazleev

He gave them a deal. He would have gotten much more if he wanted.
- PhillySportsGuy

Please list the players who give the Flyers deals.

He gave them a deal. He would have gotten much more if he wanted.
- PhillySportsGuy

With his buyout, this deal for him wasn't about the money.

Since the RFA vs UFA argument has already been made, I'll use a UFA. Anton Stralman. FA the same summer as MacDonald. Similar or better player. Getting $1mm less per year for 1 fewer years.

Dan Boyle, an older guy, who certainly isn't a long term fix, but still a very good player got 2 years, $4.5mm

The Flyers are paying a premium for a guy who, in the general consensus is, at best a decent 4th defenseman
- Jsaquella

Stralman's deal is for 4.5M, which is what I thought MacDonald was worth. So it's a slight overpayment in my opinion. MacDonald is a better player then Boyle is at this point. Boyle got two years because he is what, 39 years old? I also challenge what the general consensus is. The general consensus when Matt Carle was here, was that he wasn't a very good player.

Please list the players who give the Flyers deals.
- PLindbergh31

It has more to do with how close they are to winning a cup.

Timonen re-signed at a discount. That was signed before the blood clots. He could have gotten at least $5M on the open market.

But JSaq, see, that's how winning becomes revisionist history -- they ABSOLUTELY traded for Jeff Carter because they didn't think they were going to make the playoffs! They were the eighth seed that year!

Same with Gaborik -- they weren't scoring enough to ensure they were going to make it last year, so they pulled the trigger.

Those weren't deals to put them over the top -- they were straight-up "we might not make the playoffs if we don't do something." In Carter's case, there was talk that Dean Lombardi was going to get fired if they missed!
- AllInForFlyers

Much different circumstance when a GM is facing termination if he misses the playoffs.

When they added Carter, yes, they were fighting for their lives. But they were gearing up for another run when they added Gaborik, regardless of where in the standings they were.

The other thing is, LA was widely seen as underachieving. They had the talent to be a serious contender, regardless of where they sat in the standings. Even before that first Cup run, Lombardi wasn't in danger of being fired because he took a contender and ran it into the ground, he was in danger of being fired because he assembled a team that should be contending and was stuck in 8th.

The Flyers aren't seen by anyone as an underachieving contender. They were in 2010. But most people saw the Flyers as a bubble team this year. The Kings had Kopitar, Brown, Richards, Williams. They had a franchise defenseman in Doughty and a very solid group of defensemen. Their goalie was playing out of his head.

The Flyers are a mediocre ES team, a bad PK team and their defense is a mess. They have serious cap issues because they failed to draft a good defenseman. They lack the systemic depth the Kings had, where trading assets for key pieces didn't deplete the system and guys like Toffoli and Pearson could slide in and replace the Penners who left.

my point is that i think it's important to create and maintain a good environment for when the prospects do start funneling in. keeping coburn and streit would accomplish this more so than keeping amac and grossman. and by moving amac or grossman for a bag of pucks you can still save money and go out and get a less expensive veteran.

is moving amac and grossman going to be MUCH harder? probably, but you just have to be willing to take almost anything and just convince yourself that coburn and streit are worth keeping simply for the minutes they log and the culture in the room they create.
- black_francis

What good environment is here with Streit and Coburn? They're missing the playoffs, and barely beat Buffalo with Streit playing last evening.

Trading one or both is not trading Ray Bourque or Nicklas Lidstrom.

Well the only thing I will say, is that it is a lot easier to deal with players that are contract issues, if you've won 2 Stanley Cups recently.
I love the Flyers because they always try and win. They've come close but came up short a bunch of times. I'd rather have a team that does that, then one that never goes for it, and always has a bunch of unused cap space each year.
I don't want the Flyers to stop making moves, I just want them to make more right moves. I think patience is needed, but there is a price to pay for sitting back and waiting also. Especially if some players don't pan out.
- MJL

That's all I'm saying -- waiting and not dealing with clear issues this team has does nothing, is no guarantee of anything.

I'm honest enough to admit that it's entirely possible that doing something might not work. But this is professional sports. You have to do things, make choices.

2015-16 doesn't have to be a throwaway year

He gave them a deal. He would have gotten much more if he wanted.
- PhillySportsGuy

oh yeah. and it isnt happening a second time.

When I saw what Stralman got it really P'D me off more about the Happy Meal contract. Stralman is simply a better player, and a guy I would much rather have on this team
- 3flyerkids

Yeah, I was off with the cash by $500K on Stralman, but the point remains-a similar or (IMO)better player goes for less money and fewer years.

Please list the players who give the Flyers deals.
- PLindbergh31

timonen?

timonen?
- black_francis

Ok... great. The player who won't dress for a game this year is the one discount.

Much different circumstance when a GM is facing termination if he misses the playoffs.

When they added Carter, yes, they were fighting for their lives. But they were gearing up for another run when they added Gaborik, regardless of where in the standings they were.

The other thing is, LA was widely seen as underachieving. They had the talent to be a serious contender, regardless of where they sat in the standings. Even before that first Cup run, Lombardi wasn't in danger of being fired because he took a contender and ran it into the ground, he was in danger of being fired because he assembled a team that should be contending and was stuck in 8th.

The Flyers aren't seen by anyone as an underachieving contender. They were in 2010. But most people saw the Flyers as a bubble team this year. The Kings had Kopitar, Brown, Richards, Williams. They had a franchise defenseman in Doughty and a very solid group of defensemen. Their goalie was playing out of his head.

The Flyers are a mediocre ES team, a bad PK team and their defense is a mess. They have serious cap issues because they failed to draft a good defenseman. They lack the systemic depth the Kings had, where trading assets for key pieces didn't deplete the system and guys like Toffoli and Pearson could slide in and replace the Penners who left.
- Jsaquella

Lombardi was incredibly patient, and his core players were younger when he took over. The general consensus of the LA fan base was that they wanted him fired before they went on the Cup runs. Which shows you how the general consensus of a fan base can be flat out wrong. The Flyers can theoretically exercise the same patience, while 2-3 prime years of Giroux, Voracek, Mason, Simmons, etc flush down the drain. If the young defenseman and other draft picks don't pan out, then what? That's the risk of sitting around and waiting.