Probably will -- they truly look like they've given up. Dion Phaneuf got into another fight tonight. He looks so frustrated, like he's about to explode

I don't feel sorry for too many NHL guys; they get compensated to deal with things.

But Phaneuf needs to get moved -- sometimes, a guy needs a mercy kill, and Phaneuf needs to be put out of his misery
- AllInForFlyers

They've fired the coach, and haven't responded at all. In fact they haven't even been remotely competitive. 3 goals scored in the last 17 periods seems unfathomable.

Looks like the only thing left to do is have a fire sale.

I dislike him so much. Its really hard for me to feel anything remotely like pity. I mean christ... Dion, go home and cry to that hot girlfriend/wife of yours, you big sissy. Oh, and stop running around in your own zone like a chicken with its head cut off.
- Doc_Sarcasm

It's more than that, though -- those guys all try to pretend like they don't read what's being written, but it's not true. They might not read everything, or hear everything, but they know enough

Phaneuf, from what I can tell, is trying to be a "stoic, calm leader." But he's not good enough to escape the non-stop criticism that being the captain of the Leafs brings when they lose, and it just looks like it's finally eaten him up

I remember Mats Sundin's last couple of seasons there. Looked just like that -- every goal against is a referendum on the organization, and you just can't play like that

They've fired the coach, and haven't responded at all. In fact they haven't even been remotely competitive. 3 goals scored in the last 17 periods seems unfathomable.

Looks like the only thing left to do is have a fire sale.
- PLindbergh31

Thing is... Who actually wants Phanuef or Kessel? Both are headcases. All they can do is move supporting peices.

They've fired the coach, and haven't responded at all. In fact they haven't even been remotely competitive. 3 goals scored in the last 17 periods seems unfathomable.

Looks like the only thing left to do is have a fire sale.
- PLindbergh31

It will be interesting to see what they do at the deadline. I have to think that Nonis is gone after this year. This is his dumpster fire. These are his guys and his contracts.

Thing is... Who actually wants Phanuef or Kessel? Both are headcases. All they can do is move supporting peices.
- hereticpride

Kessel to me is a modern day Mike Bullard, and we had him once. No thanks.

Phaneuf would be a wonderful addition to our overpriced Defensive Corps. Again, no thanks.

Other than JvR, I'm not sure who I would want out of that crew. I'm sure some of them just need a change of scenery, but I'm far too prejudiced against them to be a reliable judge of what they really have.

Thing is... Who actually wants Phanuef or Kessel? Both are headcases. All they can do is move supporting peices.
- hereticpride

Might be GM's out there thinking a change of scenery might benefit those players. There is no doubt they are solid players.

Looking at their roster, the only player that has an albatross contract is Clarkson.

It will be interesting to see what they do at the deadline. I have to think that Nonis is gone after this year. This is his dumpster fire. These are his guys and his contracts.
- Doc_Sarcasm

I would think so. They are a mess. The season started so promising for them. I didn't think they would flameout and be toast before the all-star break.

He's on a 7 yr 49 mil contract.. How can you move him? Say he's a top 4 and not a top 2 guy, that's insane money.
- Hextall271

They're going to have to find a way -- I think you can maybe move him to a couple of teams, but you're right: There's not going to be a huge market of teams who want to absorb that contract

They're going to have to find a way -- I think you can maybe move him to a couple of teams, but you're right: There's not going to be a huge market of teams who want to absorb that contract
- AllInForFlyers

I think there would be more than a couple of teams willing to pry dion loose, especially since it may not cost that much in assets for the "albatross" contract. It would actually be a welcomed opportunity for many teams. He is still top pairing material.

I think there would be more than a couple of teams willing to pry dion loose, especially since it may not cost that much in assets for the "albatross" contract. It would actually be a welcomed opportunity for many teams. He is still top pairing material.
- Just5

I'd be worried about him in a few years. He doesn't seem like the type of player who ages well

I think there would be more than a couple of teams willing to pry dion loose, especially since it may not cost that much in assets for the "albatross" contract. It would actually be a welcomed opportunity for many teams. He is still top pairing material.
- Just5

Toronto isn't going to give Phaneuf away. Make no mistake about it, the cost in assets would be high.

I'd be worried about him in a few years. He doesn't seem like the type of player who ages well
- PhillySportsGuy

He does have heavy feet, doesn't turn particularly well.

His hockey sense is adequate, and he's competitive and physical enough...might be able to hide him on a third pair for three, four years when the straightline burst goes -- and it will, maybe soon

Clarkson with his second goal of the night, 3-2 Ottawa

They haven't been great tonight, but they've finally started going to the net and competing a bit more

Don't laugh: Nazem Kadri is a lot more competitive than his reputation might lead some to believe

-After the play
-From behind straight into the numbers
-Offender left his feet
-Player was injured and did not return

This hit is begging for a long suspension. Especially if they weigh Rinaldo's comments on the hit at all.
- JAKEw1234

-After the play
-Letang had just gotten rid of the puck, and was "admiring" his pass prone to the boards and was hit one second later by Rinaldo.
In slow motion it looks like the hit came 3 seconds after Letang got rid of the puck, making it look late,
but in real time, I wouldn't consider it to be a late hit so much as just Rinaldo finishing his check. It is more or less routine for players
to finish checks within a second or two of their target moving the puck. So, I don't think this hit was "late".

-From behind straight into the numbers
-Looks to me like he hit his right shoulder/rear armpit area...not sure he even hit one of Letang's numbers, let alone two.

-Offender left his feet
-Though Rinaldo's right skate appears to be up in the air on impact, I don't see evidence that he purposefully left his feet to "launch" himself
like a missile into Letang. It's pretty difficult (not impossible) to make a big hit and have both skates fixed to the ice surface throughout impact. I've seen many times where skates come up off the ice upon impact, and many times, it's not because the player was lifting them off the ice to launch himself, but rather because it was just the byproduct (of the biomechanics/biophysics) of making that sort of hit.


-Player was injured and did not return
I'm not so sure how injured Letang was. It looked like he sold it a bit to me...he almost played tonight. Just sayin'

edit: regarding his postgame comments, I think when you watch the interview and put it into context, Rinaldo was just being honest, if a bit irreverent. And I didn't hear any "jokes", despite the media headlines.

Look, I'm not a big fan of Rinaldo, and think he's a net negative as far as value to the team, but after further review, many seem to be making a mountain out of a molehill in this particular case.

-After the play
-Letang had just gotten rid of the puck, and was "admiring" his pass prone to the boards and was hit one second later by Rinaldo.
In slow motion it looks like the hit came 3 seconds after Letang got rid of the puck, making it look late,
but in real time, I wouldn't consider it to be a late hit so much as just Rinaldo finishing his check. It is more or less routine for players
to finish checks within a second or two of their target moving the puck. So, I don't think this hit was "late".

-From behind straight into the numbers
-Looks to me like he hit his right shoulder/rear armpit area...not sure he even hit one of Letang's numbers, let alone two.

-Offender left his feet
-Though Rinaldo's right skate appears to be up in the air on impact, I don't see evidence that he purposefully left his feet to "launch" himself
like a missile into Letang. It's pretty difficult (not impossible) to make a big hit and have both skates fixed to the ice surface throughout impact. I've seen many times where skates come up off the ice upon impact, and many times, it's not because the player was lifting them off the ice to launch himself, but rather because it was just the byproduct (of the biomechanics/biophysics) of making that sort of hit.


-Player was injured and did not return
I'm not so sure how injured Letang was. It looked like he sold it a bit to me...he almost played tonight. Just sayin'
- exlund

The below is Kerry Fraser's description of the hit.

http://www.tsn.ca/c-mon-r...s-flyers-rivalry-1.188321


The evidence that must be considered is that the illegal hit was very late (Letang did not have the puck), Letang was facing the boards in a defenceless position, Rinaldo elevated and left his feet through the illegal hit, the contact was made to the back of Letang and resulted in injury to the Pittsburgh player (Letang did not return to the game). This is boarding and the correct call was made on the ice by the referee to assess a major and game misconduct penalty.

-After the play
-Letang had just gotten rid of the puck, and was "admiring" his pass prone to the boards and was hit one second later by Rinaldo.
In slow motion it looks like the hit came 3 seconds after Letang got rid of the puck, making it look late,
but in real time, I wouldn't consider it to be a late hit so much as just Rinaldo finishing his check. It is more or less routine for players
to finish checks within a second or two of their target moving the puck. So, I don't think this hit was "late".

-From behind straight into the numbers
-Looks to me like he hit his right shoulder/rear armpit area...not sure he even hit one of Letang's numbers, let alone two.

-Offender left his feet
-Though Rinaldo's right skate appears to be up in the air on impact, I don't see evidence that he purposefully left his feet to "launch" himself
like a missile into Letang. It's pretty difficult (not impossible) to make a big hit and have both skates fixed to the ice surface throughout impact. I've seen many times where skates come up off the ice upon impact, and many times, it's not because the player was lifting them off the ice to launch himself, but rather because it was just the byproduct (of the biomechanics/biophysics) of making that sort of hit.


-Player was injured and did not return
I'm not so sure how injured Letang was. It looked like he sold it a bit to me...he almost played tonight. Just sayin'
- exlund

I'm sorry, but that was a horrific hit -- Letang didn't have to admire his pass. Because the puck was long gone. He had moved that puck, and had clearly moved it, and no matter what it looked like in slow motion, it was CLEARLY late.

Letang had his back turned and had let his guard down because he had no reason to expect to be hit -- the puck was long, long gone.

There's a reason why Rinaldo got a match penalty and is getting suspended. There's a reason why it's going to be at least five games.

It's not because he's Zac Rinaldo. It's not because he's a Philadelphia Flyer.

It's because that's a ridiculous hit, a dirty hit, against a player who didn't have the puck and who got hit from behind.

There's nothing more to it than that. He's being suspended because he earned that because of what he did.

Clarkson with his second goal of the night, 3-2 Ottawa

They haven't been great tonight, but they've finally started going to the net and competing a bit more

Don't laugh: Nazem Kadri is a lot more competitive than his reputation might lead some to believe
- AllInForFlyers

Kadri isn't a bad player. He's just a little poop

I'm sorry, but that was a horrific hit -- Letang didn't have to admire his pass. Because the puck was long gone. He had moved that puck, and had clearly moved it, and no matter what it looked like in slow motion, it was CLEARLY late.

Letang had his back turned and had let his guard down because he had no reason to expect to be hit -- the puck was long, long gone.

There's a reason why Rinaldo got a match penalty and is getting suspended. There's a reason why it's going to be at least five games.

It's not because he's Zac Rinaldo. It's not because he's a Philadelphia Flyer.

It's because that's a ridiculous hit, a dirty hit, against a player who didn't have the puck and who got hit from behind.

There's nothing more to it than that. He's being suspended because he earned that because of what he did.
- AllInForFlyers

That's what I was mentioning earlier...I distinctly remember how pissed he seemed in the dressing room after the game. Partially because of the gongshow that was going on, and partially because the hit (or cheap-shot, or it may have even been a fight) came from a source that he didn't anticipate. Because of that, he was also disappointed in himself for 'letting his guard down'...

As far as the 'tradeoffs' go any time a third or forth liner can score 'qunicies' or better with a first or second liner/1 or 2 dman, that is a beautiful thing. Scuderi should be applauded by penguins fans for eliminating the threat of Voracek for as long as he did. (And although I can admit I was happy to see Voracek go) If you happen to be a flyers fan, having one of your top guys disappear to the room while another key player serves his time should be infuriating.
- dmorin

i dont have a problem with voracek fighting due to the climate of the game, the rinaldo thing is ticky tack bullpoop that sad to say is fueled by some misguided sentimentality that guys who have little skill shouldnt be allowed to throw checks.

exlund thank you for being objective and impartial!

I'm sorry, but that was a horrific hit -- Letang didn't have to admire his pass. Because the puck was long gone. He had moved that puck, and had clearly moved it, and no matter what it looked like in slow motion, it was CLEARLY late.

Letang had his back turned and had let his guard down because he had no reason to expect to be hit -- the puck was long, long gone.

There's a reason why Rinaldo got a match penalty and is getting suspended. There's a reason why it's going to be at least five games.

It's not because he's Zac Rinaldo. It's not because he's a Philadelphia Flyer.

It's because that's a ridiculous hit, a dirty hit, against a player who didn't have the puck and who got hit from behind.

There's nothing more to it than that. He's being suspended because he earned that because of what he did.
- AllInForFlyers

really? did you time it? cause i did and its less than a second late

this thread is a real study in human behavior as far as the contrast between reality and what people wanna believe at timeslet me tell ya

exlund thank you for being objective and impartial!
- JoeRussomanno

I agree with you on some things, but I'm baffled at how you're defending a player who is about to get a lengthy suspension from the league.

The league looks at these things and can rescind the match penalty if they feel it is warranted. They have done that numerous times in the past.

There's nothing about that hit that was clean or should be in the game. And he's getting a lengthy suspension for just that reason.

this thread is a real study in human behavior as far as the contrast between reality and what people wanna believe at timeslet me tell ya
- JoeRussomanno

The reality: Zac Rinaldo is getting suspended for at least five games

You wanting to believe that it shouldn't happen is the epitome of a person seeing what you want to see

Because, again: Zac Rinaldo is getting suspended for at least five games

this thread is a real study in human behavior as far as the contrast between reality and what people wanna believe at timeslet me tell ya
- JoeRussomanno

I agree totally, in how easily the reality that it was an illegal hit and the right call was made on the ice, is tossed aside for what one wants to believe.