The broad street bullies were a deterrent. They punched their way to the cup.
- GOA88

There were a deterrent. But the Flyers won the Cup because they had the NHL's best coaching mind behind their bench, three Hall of Fame players, a five-time All-Star defenseman (Jimmy Watson), pure snipers in MacLeish and (in the second Cup year) Leach, outstanding dressing room leadership with many future NHL coaches in it, an extremely underrated offensive defenseman (Tom Bladon) and the hardest-working team in the league overall. The role players all knew their roles and executed them.

Valveeta has done the job on PK and on the 4th line. This guy deserves a chance at more ice... Zombies ice time!
They should flip them
- 3flyerkids

Agreed. I think the Flyers have 2/3 of a solid 4th line in place with VDV and Bellemare and perhaps White can be that 3rd guy.

There were a deterrent. But the Flyers won the Cup because they had the NHL's best coaching mind behind their bench, three Hall of Fame players, a five-time All-Star defenseman (Jimmy Watson), pure snipers in MacLeish and (in the second Cup year) Leach, outstanding dressing room leadership with many future NHL coaches in it, an extremely underrated offensive defenseman (Tom Bladon) and the hardest-working team in the league overall. The role players all knew their roles and executed them.
- bmeltzer

I think you get the jist of what I'm saying. I know they had some talent. They however were not as talented as some of the teams the played against and their physical play gave them the egde.

Rinaldo has scored 7 goals and 13 assists in his NHL career, over 200 games. In that time he's a -28. His possession numbers are similarly bad, and he's received supplementary discipline from the NHL once per every 53 games played.

Yes, hockey is more than scoring. It's defense and physical play. Well, Rinaldo is a poor defensive player, who tends to run around and look for the big hit to the detriment of his defensive responsibilities. He was tried on the PK, was ineffective and removed from it twice in the past two seasons.

The physical play he brings, but it's so often over the line that he ends up taking penalties and hurting the team. He's Not bringing enough to the table to justify the nonsense.

If it wasn't for his hitting and agitation of the opponent, he wouldn't be in the NHL. It's the sole reason he is in the NHL. That's why I say he's not a NHL caliber player. Because when it comes strictly to hockey he's got AHL level skills.
- Jsaquella

I disagree that Rinaldo is poor defensive player, he's actually a decent defender. He certainly wasn't terrible on the PK, and one of the main reasons that he doesn't play on the PK, is that the Flyers moved Giroux back to the PK, because they need his faceoff ability, and there are other players who are better. He's a 4th line player on a bad possession team. Looking at possession numbers is a waste of time.

Back in the 1970s and even into the 1980s, enforcers were indeed a deterrent. Ask Mark Howe about how much extra space he had to work with on the ice because of the presence of Glen Cochrane, for example.

There's a story about Pelle Lindbergh from his rookie AHL season in Maine. He got a snow shower from an opponent and Cochrane's gloves were off and was pounding the guy -- broke his nose -- before Lindbergh was even able to look up from covering the puck to see who did it. That was the last time a Mariners opponent so much as snow-plowed Pelle, let alone bumped him when Cochrane was on the ice.

The game changed, though.
- bmeltzer

Absolutely
Guys like Cochrane, Dave Brown, Behn Wilson and Holmgren were very valuable players in their day. Heck Holmgren and Wilson were actually quality NHL players and not just muscle, but even the Browns and Cochranes of the world performed an important role on NHL teams in their era. However, you are right, the game has changed, and while a tough guy that can effectively play the game will always have value, the day of the pure enforcer is over.

How many days until we are allowed to buy out Umberger? Seeing his carcass get pushed off the puck every time in such an emotional game like that made me miss Hartnell more than ever. Hard to imagine there are 2 top 9 guys in the league making 4+ mil playing worse than he and Read.

There were a deterrent. But the Flyers won the Cup because they had the NHL's best coaching mind behind their bench, three Hall of Fame players, a five-time All-Star defenseman (Jimmy Watson), pure snipers in MacLeish and (in the second Cup year) Leach, outstanding dressing room leadership with many future NHL coaches in it, an extremely underrated offensive defenseman (Tom Bladon) and the hardest-working team in the league overall. The role players all knew their roles and executed them.
- bmeltzer

Exactly!

Absolutely
Guys like Cochrane, Dave Brown, Behn Wilson and Holmgren were very valuable players in their day. Heck Holmgren and Wilson were actually quality NHL players and not just muscle, but even the Browns and Cochranes of the world performed an important role on NHL teams in their era. However, you are right, the game has changed, and while a tough guy that can effectively play the game will always have value, the day of the pure enforcer is over.
- BiggE

Damn do I miss Brashear though...

Do you feel the same way if the pens score a couple goals on the pp?..they could try to develop players that are actually good players.....biggest problem this team has in Snider.
- iskatefast

The first couple of sentences alluded to the problem of the lack of discipline and taking penalties with Rinaldo. Which is a reasonable argument for not wanting him in the lineup.

All seems right with the world. The Flyers beat the Pens.....again. Everyone is complaining about an illegal hit delivered by the Flyers. The Flyers are apparently the "Bullies" again after being tough for the first game this year.

The good old days!

Truly the first entertaining game of the season.

Agreed. I think the Flyers have 2/3 of a solid 4th line in place with VDV and Bellemare and perhaps White can be that 3rd guy.
- BiggE

Really impressed by VDV of late.

Zac Rinaldo should be sent to the AHL for the duration of his contract. Not just for the Letang hit, but for that ridiculous penalty he took on a good zone keep early in the first.

The guy doesn't care about the little black disc on the ice, he cares about hitting people and not being "soft" as people have called the team. I get that he has to walk the line, but he's been crossing it far too often, and last night was the tipping point for me.

Yes, he "plays hard" and "brings energy." So does Michael Raffl. So does Chris god damn VandeVelde, They have SOME talent at playing NHL-level hockey. They don't repeatedly hurt their team with ridiculously stupid penalties. They brings more than "energy" to the team. I would waive him this year and bury him in the AHL (or buy him out) for next season. I'd rather have Blair Jones at this point, at least he's an honest player with a bit of skill at playing hockey.

On Rinaldo:

First the hit: There is simply no excuse for a hit like that, he deserves a lengthy suspension. Period, end of story.

Second on his value as a player:
Lets see, a forward is expected to do some or all of the following: score, create offense, backcheck, kill penalties, win faceoffs, play with some physicality. Rinaldo neither scores or creates offense at the NHL level, nor does he win faceoffs. His defensive play is average at best nor is he anything special as a penalty killer. While he certainly plays with a physical edge, he lacks the ability to use that part of his game intelligently and takes way too many penalties.

All in all, he brings nothing to the table and would not make the roster of a contending team. I would be happy to see him waived when his suspension ends, I'm not sure if any other team would even pick him up at this point. With Akeson and White under contract, we have players that are much better suited for the NHL game than Rinaldo
- BiggE

Rinaldo for me is one word... Frustrating
The guy has shown he can be effective " when" his head is in the game. The Flyers have given him enough chances. It is clear he has a bolt or two loose in his melon.
I would love to have a Marchant on our team but we have nothing close. I am done with Rinaldo. Let's see what White can bring to the table. If he isn't ready bring up Rosehill. He is not a " stupid" player like Zac

I don't care so much about possession numbers for a player of his role but I otherwise agree down the line.

Antoine Roussel is what Rinaldo ought to be but isn't. Saddest part about Rinaldo: Zac actually could have been a decent all-around hockey player who played with an aggressive edge. In environments where he can't play the way he does in games -- scrimmages, end-of-practice, the Flyers-Phantoms exhibition in Allentown, etc -- he can do some pretty skilled things with puck, plus he skates well.

Part of what infuriates Dallas opponents so much is that Roussel can burn you with a goal or a set up pass apart from the borderline hitting and trash talking. He was one-dimensional when he started his pro career but has developed the nascent skill level that lurked below the surface. Zac has never done that.
- bmeltzer

The possession numbers are just another leg of the chair, to illustrate how, through lack of ability or sheer unwillingness to learn, that he does very little to be a viable player and little more than a thug on skates.

I'm not discounting toughness, but if all he can do is this crap, who needs him? It's obvious he still doesn't get it with his comments last night. He hurt his team last night & joked about it. I'm starting to get to Billy Tibbetts level dislike of him-not that he's that reprehensible, but I'm not seeing whatever it is the Flyers see

Zac Rinaldo should be sent to the AHL for the duration of his contract. Not just for the Letang hit, but for that ridiculous penalty he took on a good zone keep early in the first.

The guy doesn't care about the little black disc on the ice, he cares about hitting people and not being "soft" as people have called the team. I get that he has to walk the line, but he's been crossing it far too often, and last night was the tipping point for me.

Yes, he "plays hard" and "brings energy." So does Michael Raffl. So does Chris god damn VandeVelde, They have SOME talent at playing NHL-level hockey. They don't repeatedly hurt their team with ridiculously stupid penalties. They brings more than "energy" to the team. I would waive him this year and bury him in the AHL (or buy him out) for next season. I'd rather have Blair Jones at this point, at least he's an honest player with a bit of skill at playing hockey.
- jmatchett383

I agree. I was done with him last year after the "Buffalo" incident. The negatives of Rinaldo's game vastly outweigh the positives.

I think you get the jist of what I'm saying. I know they had some talent. They however were not as talented as some of the teams the played against and their physical play gave them the egde.
- GOA88

I'm old enough to have seen that team and trust me, they were more talented than most people give them credit for. Clarke and Macleish were, hands down, the best 1-2 punch at center in league and Parent for those 2 years was far and away the leagues best goaltender. Barber was a blossoming superstar and guys like Lonsberry, Dornhoefer, Leach, Nolet, Flett and Kindrachuck were all solid to above average NHL forwards. The D was not the most skilled after Bladon and to a lesser extent, Jimmy Watson, but they all knew their roles and were very solid and physical in their own end.

A few teams may have had more pure skill than the Flyers, mainly Montreal, Boston and the Rangers, but none worked as hard or had a goalie that played like Parent did from 73-75.

How many days until we are allowed to buy out Umberger? Seeing his carcass get pushed off the puck every time in such an emotional game like that made me miss Hartnell more than ever. Hard to imagine there are 2 top 9 guys in the league making 4+ mil playing worse than he and Read.
- MFC

They can buy him out after the season, the cap penalty is:
15-16 1.6 mil
16-17 1.6 mil
17-18 1.5 mil
18-19 1.5 mil

Damn do I miss Brashear though...
- GOA88

LOL, me too!

A better comparison is Orlov looking squarely at Schenn's numbers and then leaping into his back and hitting both of them.

http://video.nhl.com/videocenter/console?id=566398
- Feanor

That is exactly the type of hit I was expecting from Rinaldo on LeTang with the overhype. Yes, it was a bad hit, but certainly not as bad as everyone claims. Stupid decision, but sometimes players get caught up in the emotion Flyers/Pens games tend to generate.

Seriously people....relax....there have been far worse hits and this one doesn't even compare IMO. Entertaining game though. Oh yea...forgot to mention, hope to see Tang come back soon

The possession numbers are just another leg of the chair, to illustrate how, through lack of ability or sheer unwillingness to learn, that he does very little to be a viable player and little more than a thug on skates.

I'm not discounting toughness, but if all he can do is this crap, who needs him? It's obvious he still doesn't get it with his comments last night. He hurt his team last night & joked about it. I'm starting to get to Billy Tibbetts level dislike of him-not that he's that reprehensible, but I'm not seeing whatever it is the Flyers see
- Jsaquella

His comments last night were almost despicable and, yeah, he REALLY doesn't get it. At some point the league and PA will say enough is a enough and players like Rinaldo will be all but eradicated from the league if they can't play more disciplined and add more value across the board.

Zac Rinaldo should be sent to the AHL for the duration of his contract. Not just for the Letang hit, but for that ridiculous penalty he took on a good zone keep early in the first.

The guy doesn't care about the little black disc on the ice, he cares about hitting people and not being "soft" as people have called the team. I get that he has to walk the line, but he's been crossing it far too often, and last night was the tipping point for me.

Yes, he "plays hard" and "brings energy." So does Michael Raffl. So does Chris god damn VandeVelde, They have SOME talent at playing NHL-level hockey. They don't repeatedly hurt their team with ridiculously stupid penalties. They brings more than "energy" to the team. I would waive him this year and bury him in the AHL (or buy him out) for next season. I'd rather have Blair Jones at this point, at least he's an honest player with a bit of skill at playing hockey.
- jmatchett383

Exactly -- this isn't that difficult to understand.

If Claude Giroux took that same hit last night from Brooks Orpik and had to leave the game, I sincerely doubt anyone would be talking about how much energy Orpik brings or how hard Orpik plays.

Rinaldo's a reckless, dangerous player. Just because he doesn't injure people every night doesn't mean he isn't. He's too stupid to not do exactly what he does.

It might take five games. It might be 10 games. It might be 15 games.

But he's going to hit someone like that again -- from behind, at speed. He's going to crosscheck someone for no good reason. He's going to charge someone, for no reason.

He's not dependable. He doesn't do anything well enough to justify a spot in the lineup over a comparable player who doesn't take foolish, selfish penalties in the name of "energy."

Ridiculous player, who simply hasn't improved. Cut your losses, get somebody in the lineup who can kill penaltiies, forecheck with speed, play a fundamentally sound defensive game via systems.

In other words: a hockey player.

Sarah Baicker ‏@sbaickerCSN 12s13 seconds ago

Zac Rinaldo will have an in-person hearing with the NHL, team source says.

Five or more for Mr Rinaldo, probably going to be out until at least February 10th
- Jsaquella

I'm old enough to have seen that team and trust me, they were more talented than most people give them credit for. Clarke and Macleish were, hands down, the best 1-2 punch at center in league and Parent for those 2 years was far and away the leagues best goaltender. Barber was a blossoming superstar and guys like Lonsberry, Dornhoefer, Leach, Nolet, Flett and Kindrachuck were all solid to above average NHL forwards. The D was not the most skilled after Bladon and to a lesser extent, Jimmy Watson, but they all knew their roles and were very solid and physical in their own end.

A few teams may have had more pure skill than the Flyers, mainly Montreal, Boston and the Rangers, but none worked as hard or had a goalie that played like Parent did from 73-75.
- BiggE

That's mainly what I was referring to. I'm not trying to take anything away from them. They deserved it completely.

That is exactly the type of hit I was expecting from Rinaldo on LeTang with the overhype. Yes, it was a bad hit, but certainly not as bad as everyone claims. Stupid decision, but sometimes players get caught up in the emotion Flyers/Pens games tend to generate.

Seriously people....relax....there have been far worse hits and this one doesn't even compare IMO. Entertaining game though. Oh yea...forgot to mention, hope to see Tang come back soon
- Fast_Eddie_1

Should Rinaldo be excused for the hit, and not blamed for putting the team in a bad spot because there have been far worse hits and this one doesn't even compare? Should he not be suspended for it because there have been far worse hits? And if the answer to those questions is no, why does it matter if there have been far worse hits?

I never want to see a player hurt, but let's get one thing clear: that hit set the tone for the rest of the game. It was going to be that kind of game and it played right into the Flyers' hands