Really all that needs to be shown is Talbot dodging a tackle/punch from behind while he's carying the puck up ice or Trevor Gillies at any moment of your choice. From both sides it was awful but those were some standout things for me. An embarrasment.
- HopintheCordoba

Talbot shouldn't have been jawing or laughing at injured players on the ice during that game and the game before. He was always good for that. Stirring the pot and turtling soon after. I don't mean this in a derogatory way but I have no idea why yiou guys hitch your wagons to a player like that? He was the biggest perpetrator during that whole sequence of events.

Talbot shouldn't have been jawing or laughing at injured players on the ice during that game and the game before. He was always good for that. Stirring the pot and turtling soon after. I don't mean this in a derogatory way but I have no idea why yiou guys hitch your wagons to a player like that? Guy is an absolute POS pu$$ie
- Cptmjl

See my above response

We've been through this before. The game before that was pretty brutal too. Dirty hits, players pointing and laughing at Comeau lying on the ice after one. Yep. Pay backs a b!tch.
- Cptmjl

Payback, huh? So the appropriate response for DiPietro challenging Johnson to a fight and getting knocked out is to have an AHL goon challenge Johnson to a fight as "payback?" That's about as bush league as you can get.

I've read enough posts over the years to think that MOST people on this site(and everywhere) agree that Olympic hockey is some of the best there is , extremely exciting to watch , sitting on the edge of you seat type hockey ? Am I wrong ? Now how can that be ???? There are literally almost NO fights and very few even QUESTIONABLE hits, how is this possible ? The fact is the game is just as good without all this bull$hit.
- Bradlee3

I prefer playoff hockey over Olympic hockey any day of the week. Just my opinion though.

I don't think anyone, even Cooke/Rinaldo, has ever hit a player thinking, "Man, I hope I kill/cripple this guy." I think it's more of an "I hope I hit this guy hard and knock him out of the game." I mean, by your rationale, it would be totally acceptable to carry a knife onto the ice and stab a dude.

My point was, maybe the day of the game, Adams gives an interview and says something along the lines of, "Well, we know they have some guys who may want to run our star players. If they do, we'll have no problem taking some runs at their players in return."

Or something similar. You have to let it be known that retaliation will occur before the fact.
- jmatchett383

I took your prior point to mean that due to the instigator rule, you could no longer effectively threaten an opposing team's star players with retribution. I'm just simply stating that I think the instigator rule is irrelevant & there are plenty of ways to attack a star player, so long as you are committed to doing so.

Honestly, I think guys like Rinaldo go into some games with the mindset of "I hope I can knock player X out of the game" and do not really consider whether the hit is legal or not. It is not 'kill/cripple,' as you stated, but I do certainly think the intent is to injure or, at a minimum, there is a reckless disregard for a potential injury.

And just to be clear, I'm not saying it is acceptable, nor do i agree with it. But if you are going to take a MAD (mutually assured destruction) approach, you have to follow through on the threat, no matter what. A knife is a bit extreme, but if Giroux or Voracek leaves the game last night in the state Letang did & the Penguins bench tells the Flyers its due to Rinaldo's hit, do you think he boasts about it after the game? Do you think he does it again next game?

Payback, huh? So the appropriate response for DiPietro challenging Johnson to a fight and getting knocked out is to have an AHL goon challenge Johnson to a fight as "payback?" That's about as bush league as you can get.
- jmatchett383

Meh. It wasn't just DP that whole game would make the league blush all over again and you'd be embarrassed and be all upset too. Players were taken runs at the entire team. Comeau got concussed with a dirty neutral zone elbow. Everyone forgets about that. I get it. You like posting on this thread for whatever reason but you're hitching your wagon to something you and I will never see eye to eye on. Agree to disagree.

I prefer playoff hockey over Olympic hockey any day of the week. Just my opinion though.
- j.boyd919

Playoff hockey is great. Playoff hockey where you have guys cheap shotting each other for payback is not.

The complaining about the Neal incident is getting old. Marchand boarded him in the conference finals the previous season, an incident that was equally as dirty, and Marchand didn't face any discipline over it. Neal's knee to his head was purely retaliatory in nature. Sure it was wrong and sure he deserved a suspension for it but it wasn't unprovoked. It is funny how you guys want to get rid of instigator penalties and think that retaliation is ok but when a Pens player engages in retaliation like this you have to constantly bring it up.

Why is Letang skating this morning? It is one game before the all-star break. Sit him out. Or has this organization not yet learned its lesson by rushing players back...Crosby, Maatta

Meh. It wasn't just DP that whole game would make the league blush all over again and you'd be embarrassed and be all upset too. Players were taken runs at the entire team. Comeau got concussed with a dirty neutral zone elbow. Everyone forgets about that. I get it. You like posting on this thread for whatever reason but you're hitching your wagon to something you and I will never see eye to eye on. Agree to disagree.
- Cptmjl

I'm sorry I just can't take THIS seriously.

Playoff hockey is great. Playoff hockey where you have guys cheap shotting each other for payback is not.
- ImThatGuy

Oh no, I agree, I actually wasn't even getting into this debate about cheap shots... I was merely stating that if I had a choice to watch the Stanley Cup Playoffs or the Olympics... I prefer the intensity and physicality of the playoffs, in my opinion it is more entertaining.

Neal should have been suspended longer too. I am not denying that. The NHL department of "player Safety" needs to do a better job overall.


There was no reason for this hit. It was not like Letang turned last second.
- ImThatGuy

NHL does a horrible job. Your right. My point is Neal had clear intent to injure, recieved 5 games. Rinaldo finished a check in which he should have backed off. I don't think it was Rinaldo's intent to injure Letang. If Letang had turned I would be defending Rinaldo because a lot of players do that to draw penalties. Rinaldo's hit was clearly dirty and he should face disciplinary action but 20 games would be way of the mark compared to other infractions that had gotten of lightly or we're not punished at all.

I think he has a ton of talent and potential. Really only in his first pro year. This is a growing experience for defensemen. Not sure what people are expecting. NHL ready is a varying term if you ask me. He's exceptonal at times so far offensively. Needs to work continually on the defensive game. Not really news. Still, all for both playing and getting this valuable experience now. Ehrhoff potentially walking and Martin definitely walking next year should be concerning. These guys need to play while they aren't relied on so much.
- HopintheCordoba

The term NHL ready means he should be there over Scuds and Bortz. Right now he is not NHL ready. As bad as Scuds has been Dumo, Harrington, and Pouliott are not better options today. Maybe next year, maybe a yr after, but right now they are not. The Pens need to be better right now, not 2-3 yrs.

I took your prior point to mean that due to the instigator rule, you could no longer effectively threaten an opposing team's star players with retribution. I'm just simply stating that I think the instigator rule is irrelevant & there are plenty of ways to attack a star player, so long as you are committed to doing so.

Honestly, I think guys like Rinaldo go into some games with the mindset of "I hope I can knock player X out of the game" and do not really consider whether the hit is legal or not. It is not 'kill/cripple,' as you stated, but I do certainly think the intent is to injure or, at a minimum, there is a reckless disregard for a potential injury.

And just to be clear, I'm not saying it is acceptable, nor do i agree with it. But if you are going to take a MAD (mutually assured destruction) approach, you have to follow through on the threat, no matter what. A knife is a bit extreme, but if Giroux or Voracek leaves the game last night in the state Letang did & the Penguins bench tells the Flyers its due to Rinaldo's hit, do you think he boasts about it after the game? Do you think he does it again next game?
- s0rcerer1984

I'm not in favor of the MAD. But the thing is, if one team knows there will be no retribution, then there's no fear of it. MAD doesn't prevent injuries, it furthers them.

Now if there's no instigator rule, then Craig Adams or whoever knows that he can just skate up to Giroux/Voracek and pound away at him. He gets 5 minutes, and that's that. And as soon as he gets out of the box, he can do it again. No dirty hits, no runs, just a good old-fashioned ass whooping. No suspensions, no permanent damage. That's what the instigator rule prevents. It may not be exactly an eye for an eye, but it allows the other team to respond in a way that won't get you suspended.

NHL does a horrible job. Your right. My point is Neal had clear intent to injure, recieved 5 games. Rinaldo finished a check in which he should have backed off. I don't think it was Rinaldo's intent to injure Letang. If Letang had turned I would be defending Rinaldo because a lot of players do that to draw penalties. Rinaldo's hit was clearly dirty and he should face disciplinary action but 20 games would be way of the mark compared to other infractions that had gotten of lightly or we're not punished at all.
- RobFlyers#1

That has nothing to do with it anymore. Live in the now and make a point going forward that these infractions won't be tolerated. The league has failed to set real precedents forever. Change it NOW. That's what is required. 20 games sends a larger message. I suspect they won't even come close though despite his history.

I'm sorry I just can't take THIS seriously.

- HopintheCordoba

The term NHL ready means he should be there over Scuds and Bortz. Right now he is not NHL ready. As bad as Scuds has been Dumo, Harrington, and Pouliott are not better options today. Maybe next year, maybe a yr after, but right now they are not. The Pens need to be better right now, not 2-3 yrs.
- sammy87

I'll respectfully disagree.

- Cptmjl

I'm sorry I couldn't help that one. Such a depressing narrative today. Need a good laugh and some better hockey to turn the tide a bit.

The Pittsburgh PP is weak and squishy without Hornqvist. Letang doesn't make that big of a difference. He's got one goal and a 7.6 shooting %. I am aware that the Penguins don't have goals from any their D on the PP; that's not a reason to stick with Letang. 87 and 71 still don't make it happen and that's just mind boggling. The flinching we all do when it is suggested that 87 and 71 play together at even strength is equally telling. For all of the talent and skill, the players haven't been well developed.

Rinaldo knows that finishing Letang in the numbers will unravel the Penguins and change the complexion of a game right away. The Flyers faithful love Rinaldo, they love that video of the fat woman singing 'God Bless America" in the fruit-snack-bag-pattern dress, and they love that the Penguins were in a hurry to acquire Steve Downie to grant them half of their point. If only the Pens 4th line was Downie, Zolnierczyk, and Carcillo.

That has nothing to do with it anymore. Live in the now and make a point going forward that these infractions won't be tolerated. The league has failed to set real precedents forever. Change it NOW. That's what is required. 20 games sends a larger message. I suspect they won't even come close though despite his history.
- HopintheCordoba

I disagree. A player makes a split second decision to finish a check in a face paced game. That will always be the case. There has to be accountability. Yes. There also has to be was there intent to injure and there was not IMO in this case but there was in Neal's case. Neal could have skated on by but he devices to stick his knee out to clip Marchand in the head. Not all infractions carry the same discipline. If that were the case in game penalties would all be the same. It wouldn't be a double minor if there is blood from a high stick.

I disagree. A player makes a split second decision to finish a check in a face paced game. That will always be the case. There has to be accountability. Yes. There also has to be was there intent to injure and there was not IMO in this case but there was in Neal's case. Neal could have skated on by but he devices to stick his knee out to clip Marchand in the head. Not all infractions carry the same discipline. If that were the case in game penalties would all be the same. It wouldn't be a double minor if there is blood from a high stick.
- RobFlyers#1

Stop. Rinaldo had every advantage to keep from doing it and he still did it. He saw Letang possess and play the puck before he skate over to hit him in the numbers. Not one person would agree it was a bang bang hit. You're just being ridiculous in regards to that hit. You're also clearly missing the point overall.

Neal deserved a heavier suspension. I won't disagree. But we're talking about last night(present), not last year(past). The league can't go back in time and deal with it. Deal with NOW. That's all anyone is asking for. There is literally no real precedent or template for anything. Not one that makes sense or functions properly anyway.

I'm not in favor of the MAD. But the thing is, if one team knows there will be no retribution, then there's no fear of it. MAD doesn't prevent injuries, it furthers them.

Now if there's no instigator rule, then Craig Adams or whoever knows that he can just skate up to Giroux/Voracek and pound away at him. He gets 5 minutes, and that's that. And as soon as he gets out of the box, he can do it again. No dirty hits, no runs, just a good old-fashioned ass whooping. No suspensions,no permanent damage. That's what the instigator rule prevents. It may not be exactly an eye for an eye, but it allows the other team to respond in a way that won't get you suspended.
- jmatchett383

First, maybe I'm misunderstading you. I thought you had stated that you advocated, prior to a game, a team could make it known that should their star players be targeted or illegally injured, they would inflict similar, damage against the opposing team's star players. Thus, the threat of credible retaliation would ensure that the no initial incident occurs. In essence, this approach is MAD. ie, "Cross this line & we all go down together so don't even try it."

Second, I very much disagree that a 'good old fashioned ass whopping' is equal to an illegal check resulting in a concussion. Getting punched sucks, but it seems rare that a fight results in the kind of damage Letang suffered last night (ie, possible severe concussion). If Letang (hypothetically) was out for a few weeks, how does Giroux or Voracek having a black eye equate to that? You mentioned that there would be no permanent damage, but the kind of hit Rinaldo inflicted has the potential to be very permanent damage. Any response that doesn't inflict similar, permanent damage accomplishes nothing and, in my opinion, doesn't really serve as any kind of deterent; it just creates havoc like that night's game.

Stop. Rinaldo had every advantage to keep from doing it and he still did it. He saw Letang possess and play the puck before he skate over to hit him in the numbers. Not one person would agree it was a bang bang hit. You're just being ridiculous in regards to that hit. You're also clearly missing the point.

Neal deserved a heavier suspension. I won't disagree. But we're talking about last night, not last year. The league can't go back in time and deal with it. Deal with NOW. That's all anyone is asking for.
- HopintheCordoba

It's called president. It can be found in any court. You don't get 1 year for murder and life for a speeding ticket. I don't care if it happened last night or three years ago. Your right Rinaldo could have eased off and should have. That's why I agree he be punished but not by some stupid arbitrary number that someone makes up this year. Create standards don't fly by the seat of your pants.

It's called president. It can be found in any court. You don't get 1 year for murder and life for a speeding ticket. I don't care if it happened last night or three years ago. Your right Rinaldo could have eased off and should have. That's why I agree he be punished but not by some stupid arbitrary number that someone makes up this year. Create standards don't fly by the seat of your pants.
- RobFlyers#1

That's all we are asking for. Pay some franking attention.

Oh and it's "precendent" when do you suggest one be created? After he does it again? Now? Later? C'mon...

Payback, huh? So the appropriate response for DiPietro challenging Johnson to a fight and getting knocked out is to have an AHL goon challenge Johnson to a fight as "payback?" That's about as bush league as you can get.
- jmatchett383

More bush league then Emery assaulting Holtby? At least Johnson wanted to fight Haley