That's all we are asking for. Pay some franking attention.

Oh and it's "precendent" when do you suggest one be created? After he does it again? Now? Later? C'mon...
- HopintheCordoba

lol auto correct. I know that's what your saying but giving Rinaldo a 20 game suspension for boarding and Neal last year got 5 for kneeing a player in the head while he was on the ice don't do that

Well Mario threatened to pull "his" team out of the league when we pulverized them that game. Maybe he can start his own princess league where only the Penguins are allowed to have dirty players and no one is allowed to say shat about it. He can write that into the contracts.
- Cptmjl

He didn't threaten to pull his team out of the league, just that he might not want to be a part of it.

He also proposed a fining system where teams are fined when their players are suspended, also indicating that the Pens would have been one of the higher fined team with that system in place.

Mario was right in the early 90's with his criticism of the clutching and grabbing, and calling the NHL a "garage league", and he's still correct about it being that.

He's been consistent on his view of the game.

lol auto correct. I know that's what your saying but giving Rinaldo a 20 game suspension for boarding and Neal last year got 5 for kneeing a player in the head while he was on the ice don't do that
- RobFlyers#1

I'm not sure I follow because unless they have a time machine they can only deal with now, but I'll say this: I feel like giving him 20 is exactly what needs to happen to repeat offenders from now on. I don't care who they are. Take severity of the hit into it. Take history into it. If intent of any kind is obvious take it into account. Leave injury out of it as much as possible. Just get it right. Otherwise it just continues to occur. If it still does after, ramp it up.

The League doesn't care about this, therefore I don't. Let them all kill each other.

As far as I know, Rinaldo and Letang are part of the same union. If the players wanted this addressed, they'd address it as part of collective bargaining.

Nothing will happen until some player gets seriously hurt. Like, paralyzed hurt. A lawsuit will ensue. That's when this will all be addressed.

Look at the NFL. They didn't give a crap about player safety and concussions until retired players started suing them. Now, that's all you hear about.

If you continue to try and rationalize this, you'll just turn yourself off from the game. Learned that years ago after watching Mario get mugged....

Certainly not on here everyday. Couldn't stomach it for that long though you have some objective posters I wont blanket statement everyone. The problem is when your blogger writes a blog like this it comes off as hypocritical and attracts attention from other fans. coincidentally you're quite the hypocrite yourself with all of the times you trolled both of our blogs bfr and after the playoffs and in between. Also, you questioning my knowledge of the sport is laughable. Your posts are consistently incoherent.
- Cptmjl

Crazy? yes, Over the top? yes, Bias? absolutely, but my posts always get their point across in a very coherent way.

I do come into your thread when its appropriate, I don't deny that one bit. You pop up every other day to tell us we are hypocrites.

I'm not in favor of the MAD. But the thing is, if one team knows there will be no retribution, then there's no fear of it. MAD doesn't prevent injuries, it furthers them.

Now if there's no instigator rule, then Craig Adams or whoever knows that he can just skate up to Giroux/Voracek and pound away at him. He gets 5 minutes, and that's that. And as soon as he gets out of the box, he can do it again. No dirty hits, no runs, just a good old-fashioned ass whooping. No suspensions, no permanent damage. That's what the instigator rule prevents. It may not be exactly an eye for an eye, but it allows the other team to respond in a way that won't get you suspended.
- jmatchett383

And if Giroux or Voracek don't want to go, then what? You get a Shawn Thornton/Todd Bertuzzi like incident.

I get that the idea of going after another team's star player is a deterrent in theory, but just like the "enforcer" it's in theory. Players have shown over and over again that they can't control themselves.

If Adams took a run or jumped Giroux, then a couple shifts later, someone takes a run at Crosby... and so on and so on.

How about we just call penalties, and properly discipline guys who do dirty things severely enough so that they don't do it again? And if they do, then punish their teams for it too.

The League doesn't care about this, therefore I don't. Let them all kill each other.

As far as I know, Rinaldo and Letang are part of the same union. If the players wanted this addressed, they'd address it as part of collective bargaining.

Nothing will happen until some player gets seriously hurt. Like, paralyzed hurt. A lawsuit will ensue. That's when this will all be addressed.

Look at the NFL. They didn't give a crap about player safety and concussions until retired players started suing them. Now, that's all you hear about.

If you continue to try and rationalize this, you'll just turn yourself off from the game. Learned that years ago after watching Mario get mugged....
- 87_71_11_29

Todd Bertuzzi ended another player's career in a well-publicized incident, was sued, went to court, settled, and was extended a tryout contract this season. They handled it as citizens; not union members or professionals.

The League doesn't care about this, therefore I don't. Let them all kill each other.

As far as I know, Rinaldo and Letang are part of the same union. If the players wanted this addressed, they'd address it as part of collective bargaining.

Nothing will happen until some player gets seriously hurt. Like, paralyzed hurt. A lawsuit will ensue. That's when this will all be addressed.

Look at the NFL. They didn't give a crap about player safety and concussions until retired players started suing them. Now, that's all you hear about.

If you continue to try and rationalize this, you'll just turn yourself off from the game. Learned that years ago after watching Mario get mugged....
- 87_71_11_29

The union won't address it. If they acted it would be taking a job away from the league. Certain types of players would be unemployed and they are already part of the union.

And if Giroux or Voracek don't want to go, then what? You get a Shawn Thornton/Todd Bertuzzi like incident.

I get that the idea of going after another team's star player is a deterrent in theory, but just like the "enforcer" it's in theory. Players have shown over and over again that they can't control themselves.

If Adams took a run or jumped Giroux, then a couple shifts later, someone takes a run at Crosby... and so on and so on.

How about we just call penalties, and properly discipline guys who do dirty things severely enough so that they don't do it again? And if they do, then punish their teams for it too.
- rival22

Going after another team's player is not a deterrent. Knowing that your team's star player will have to answer for your actions BEFORE you do something stupid is a deterrent. That way, you don't run around because you know your team, and not you as an individual, will suffer the consequences.

Again, it's one thing to get hurt or suspended because of something you did. It's another thing to have to apologize to your teammate in the hospital because of something you did. So if the player knows that's a possibility, it's more likely that he won't do anything Rinaldo-esque.

Hi, I am Brian Boitano and I approve of the contents of this blog.

The League doesn't care about this, therefore I don't. Let them all kill each other.

As far as I know, Rinaldo and Letang are part of the same union. If the players wanted this addressed, they'd address it as part of collective bargaining.

Nothing will happen until some player gets seriously hurt. Like, paralyzed hurt. A lawsuit will ensue. That's when this will all be addressed.

Look at the NFL. They didn't give a crap about player safety and concussions until retired players started suing them. Now, that's all you hear about.

If you continue to try and rationalize this, you'll just turn yourself off from the game. Learned that years ago after watching Mario get mugged....
- 87_71_11_29

This.

Every other league elevates their star player, but the NHL tries to knock them down.

Just look at their TV talent. The NBA networks puts All-Stars like Reggie Miller, Chris Webber, Charles Barkley on their TV broadcasts/studio shows... MLB has guys like Cal Ripkin, Barry Larkin and John Smoltz... NFL has Dan Marino, Chris Carter, Phil Simms (as annoying as he is), etc...

In the NHL you get former goon and horrible GM Milbury, grinders like Keith Jones, and idiots like PJ Stock and Don Cherry.

Hi, I am Brian Boitano and I approve of the contents of this blog.
- TheRat14

The union won't address it. If they acted it would be taking a job away from the league. Certain types of players would be unemployed and they are already part of the union.
- sammy87

But right now, that small number of idiot union members are negatively impacting more skilled union members.

I just don't see how they feel the need to protect guys like Rinaldo, Cooke, Dale Hunter over guys like Letang, Marc Savard or Pierre Turgeon.

I guess that is how unions as a whole work though, they mostly just protect the bad workers.

First, maybe I'm misunderstading you. I thought you had stated that you advocated, prior to a game, a team could make it known that should their star players be targeted or illegally injured, they would inflict similar, damage against the opposing team's star players. Thus, the threat of credible retaliation would ensure that the no initial incident occurs. In essence, this approach is MAD. ie, "Cross this line & we all go down together so don't even try it."

Second, I very much disagree that a 'good old fashioned ass whopping' is equal to an illegal check resulting in a concussion. Getting punched sucks, but it seems rare that a fight results in the kind of damage Letang suffered last night (ie, possible severe concussion). If Letang (hypothetically) was out for a few weeks, how does Giroux or Voracek having a black eye equate to that? You mentioned that there would be no permanent damage, but the kind of hit Rinaldo inflicted has the potential to be very permanent damage. Any response that doesn't inflict similar, permanent damage accomplishes nothing and, in my opinion, doesn't really serve as any kind of deterent; it just creates havoc like that night's game.
- s0rcerer1984

I actually think we're more or less saying the same thing, but defining terms differently.

I'm advocating an understanding prior to an incident that ensures that MAD is not required, more or less threatening MAD as opposed to engaging in it.

I also hope I didn't imply that getting beat up was similar to a flying elbow to the head. But my point was more that, you don't beat up Rinaldo, you beat up Giroux or Voracek. Even if it's only getting punched up a bit, it's still not easy for Rinaldo to have to be responsible for those guys. Kind of like if you mouthed off to a guy, and your brother had to step in and get beat up because you backed down, you're gonna feel like a piece of poop. That's what the lack of an instigator can do. It means the other team doesn't have to have a player get suspended to retaliate against your star player if you choose to take a run at someone.

Basically, let's say that, last night, Adams grabs Giroux and just starts hammering away (and gets only a fighting major), and he lets it be known that it's because of Rinaldo. I'm sure Giroux's going to rip into Rinaldo sinc ehe had to answer for Rinaldo's actions. Now, in this case, it's not a deterrent because Rinaldo had already hurt Letang. But if there was the possibility of just the fighting major, maybe Rinaldo holds back because he knows it's a possibility.

Crazy? yes, Over the top? yes, Bias? absolutely, but my posts always get their point across in a very coherent way.

I do come into your thread when its appropriate, I don't deny that one bit. You pop up every other day to tell us we are hypocrites.
- nbartley9

I have to defend Bartley on this, he is one of the most consistent posters on this board, his point of view is always clear and on point. His view is not always popular but He defends it and sticks too it , thick and thin.

This.

Every other league elevates their star player, but the NHL tries to knock them down.

Just look at their TV talent. The NBA networks puts All-Stars like Reggie Miller, Chris Webber, Charles Barkley on their TV broadcasts/studio shows... MLB has guys like Cal Ripkin, Barry Larkin and John Smoltz... NFL has Dan Marino, Chris Carter, Phil Simms (as annoying as he is), etc...

In the NHL you get former goon and horrible GM Milbury, grinders like Keith Jones, and idiots like PJ Stock and Don Cherry.
- rival22

So you want the NHL to use Bob Probert (RIP), Chris Simon, and Kevin Stevens? The fact that Cris Carter is this symbol of humanity disgusts me.

Going after another team's player is not a deterrent. Knowing that your team's star player will have to answer for your actions BEFORE you do something stupid is a deterrent. That way, you don't run around because you know your team, and not you as an individual, will suffer the consequences.

Again, it's one thing to get hurt or suspended because of something you did. It's another thing to have to apologize to your teammate in the hospital because of something you did. So if the player knows that's a possibility, it's more likely that he won't do anything Rinaldo-esque.
- jmatchett383

That makes more sense, thanks for clarifying.

But I don't know that the instigator rule has to do with it. Is a 2 and a 10 really going to stop someone as psycho as Downie from taking a run at Giroux? He gets a 2 and 10 driving to the rink.

I think free agency basically neuters the deterrent. Guys like Downie and Carcillo have jumped around to enough teams to get to know guys and become friends. Downie is nuts, but he's probably not going after Giroux, or Carcillo probably isn't going after Kopitar if a Kings player takes a run at Toews.

I have to defend Bartley on this, he is one of the most consistent posters on this board, his point of view is always clear and on point. His view is not always popular but He defends it and sticks too it , thick and thin.
- Bradlee3

Hey thanks man, I always stick to my guns!


F Sutter

That makes more sense, thanks for clarifying.

But I don't know that the instigator rule has to do with it. Is a 2 and a 10 really going to stop someone as psycho as Downie from taking a run at Giroux? He gets a 2 and 10 driving to the rink.

I think free agency basically neuters the deterrent. Guys like Downie and Carcillo have jumped around to enough teams to get to know guys and become friends. Downie is nuts, but he's probably not going after Giroux, or Carcillo probably isn't going after Kopitar if a Kings player takes a run at Toews.
- rival22

Post of the day.

- HopintheCordoba

That would be the Thin he was referring to.

That would be the Thin he was referring to.
- nbartley9

Damn it I was going to use it as a reply to you but you got to it first.

Going after another team's player is not a deterrent. Knowing that your team's star player will have to answer for your actions BEFORE you do something stupid is a deterrent. That way, you don't run around because you know your team, and not you as an individual, will suffer the consequences.

Again, it's one thing to get hurt or suspended because of something you did. It's another thing to have to apologize to your teammate in the hospital because of something you did. So if the player knows that's a possibility, it's more likely that he won't do anything Rinaldo-esque.
- jmatchett383

I guess? That's how it worked in the pre expansion era. It was easy to bury a player in the minors those days.

Managers don't carry enforcers anymore. This is good; fighting is stupid. Managers still seem to want to outfit their teams with 'energy guys' who play like 'war criminals'. The NHL is a very rat friendly place right now and there's never really been anything to do about it.

Are we saying that the 2 PIM in the instigator rule would put the team down more than 'deterring' Rinaldo by threatening to have an enforcer pursue him? My guess is that they would turtle and hide behind the linesmen. Cooke did just that. Ruutu, &c. Rats slip between the cracks of having to answer for being too violent.

Every team seems to think they need a rat. Even Kenny Holland signed Jordin Tootoo. The way to eliminate this kind of player is to stop giving them jobs. It kind of worked with enforcers; they'll have to develop an environment that's not so accepting of rats in the NHL.

I guess? That's how it worked in the pre expansion era. It was easy to bury a player in the minors those days.

Managers don't carry enforcers anymore. This is good; fighting is stupid. Managers still seem to want to outfit their teams with 'energy guys' who play like 'war criminals'. The NHL is a very rat friendly place right now and there's never really been anything to do about it.

Are we saying that the 2 PIM in the instigator rule would put the team down more than 'deterring' Rinaldo by threatening to have an enforcer pursue him? My guess is that they would turtle and hide behind the linesmen. Cooke did just that. Ruutu, &c. Rats slip between the cracks of having to answer for being too violent.

Every team seems to think they need a rat. Even Kenny Holland signed Jordin Tootoo. The way to eliminate this kind of player is to stop giving them jobs. It kind of worked with enforcers; they'll have to develop an environment that's not so accepting of rats in the NHL.
- Johnny Wrath

Well, if a 2 and a 10 isn't a deterrent, why doesn't every team just have a guy beat up Sidney Crosby at the outset of every game? Would seem to make sense. Beat him up, and if he gets up, have the next guy do the same thing.

Also, I think Jordin Tootoo's a pretty honest player, for the most part.

Todd Bertuzzi ended another player's career in a well-publicized incident, was sued, went to court, settled, and was extended a tryout contract this season. They handled it as citizens; not union members or professionals.
- Johnny Wrath

Interesting point you make on Bertuzzi. He didn't paralyze Moore but definitely ended his career.

Did Moore attempt to sue the league? I cant remember.

For argument, say that Letang got all f'd up from Rinaldo's hit last night. Would he have grounds for a lawsuit claiming the NHL did nothing to deter this kind of behavior? There would certainly be ample video evidence to suggest no. Hell, all the attorney would have to do is put in any of Don Cherrys videos as evidence!

Well, if a 2 and a 10 isn't a deterrent, why doesn't every team just have a guy beat up Sidney Crosby at the outset of every game? Would seem to make sense. Beat him up, and if he gets up, have the next guy do the same thing.

Also, I think Jordin Tootoo's a pretty honest player, for the most part.
- jmatchett383

I am actually surprised this doesn't happen to the nadless Pens more often. Not like anyone is going to do anything about it.