Mark Giordano once had to go to the KHL b/c the Flames didn't think he was worth anything more than a QO and no other teams thought enough of him to trade for his rights.

Martin St. Louis was exposed in the 2000 expansion draft (at the same age as Arty) and neither Columbus nor Minnesota thought he was worth picking up for free.


NHL execs/scouts don't always get is right as a group. So many players fall through the cracks year after year... some get a second crack at it (like Gio and Marty) and never look back... most others are lost forever.
- Tomahawk

NHL scouts and execs also get it right a lot of times. Maybe they have it right with Akeson. Time will tell.

The hysterical laughter you are hearing is courtesy of Dean Lombardi

- BiggE

Would love to hear his response if Vinny-Burger was offered to him

Mark Giordano once had to go to the KHL b/c the Flames didn't think he was worth anything more than a QO and no other teams thought enough of him to trade for his rights.

Martin St. Louis was exposed in the 2000 expansion draft (at the same age as Arty) and neither Columbus nor Minnesota thought he was worth picking up for free.


NHL execs/scouts don't always get is right as a group. So many players fall through the cracks year after year... some get a second crack at it (like Gio and Marty) and never look back... most others are lost forever.
- Tomahawk

thats a couple great examples. now do you want to give the hundreds who fail?

The sentence in my post that you quoted that stated that Streit is a top scoring defenseman at 37, didn't illustrate that I'm aware that he is in his late 30's?
- MJL

Streit is playing as good as he ever will again. To not try to get a good return for him is foolish. He is not our future.

Even if he got a defenseman in the deal, how would that have changed the cap situation? A good D man likely would've been well paid, even possibly paid more then the players the Flyers did acquire in the deals. Again, Holmgren can't force a team to trade them a quality D man. Perhaps he tried to get a defenseman, but couldn't find a team willing to trade one. Is that a possibility?
- MJL

You are right, a good dman would have been paid well. Instead they give 50 million to Bryz and now we are most likely stuck with Amac, an average at best d-man that is being payed well. And perhaps he did, but the logic behind the trades was to free up money for to sign Bryz. It didn't appear like he spent a whole lot time shopping those 2 around.

There is also evidence of a lot of players continuing to play at a high level, into their late 30's. Streit hasn't had the same amount of wear and tear and tough minutes that a player like Timonen has had. Streit also hasn't played a high number of NHL games for a player his age. He's a top scoring defenseman at 37. I wouldn't expect a big dropoff in the next couple of years.
- MJL

Define "a lot". And I'm talking defensemen playing at what you call a high level justifing a 5+ mil cap hit.

Sure, there are D out there playing in the upper 30's - Chara, Gonchar, Boyle, Visnovsky. But a lot at a high level? I'm not so sure.

The point is that his interest probably won't be any higher than it is now. If the right deal comes along, I wouldn't look the other way because I'd want him to coach the younger defensemen coming up, or expect him to continue to put up solid offensive numbers.

Define "a lot". And I'm talking defensemen playing at what you call a high level justifing a 5+ mil cap hit.

Sure, there are D out there playing in the upper 30's - Chara, Gonchar, Boyle, Visnovsky. But a lot at a high level? I'm not so sure.

The point is that his interest probably won't be any higher than it is now. If the right deal comes along, I wouldn't look the other way because I'd want him to coach the younger defensemen coming up, or expect him to continue to put up solid offensive numbers.
- 77rams

Haven't both MJL and I agreed to this at least 3 times in this thread? The point he and I are making (MJL, correct me if I'm wrong) is that you shouldn't just be looking to dump him for the best return, rather that you should be open to trading him for a good return.

Haven't both MJL and I agreed to this at least 3 times in this thread? The point he and I are making (MJL, correct me if I'm wrong) is that you shouldn't just be looking to dump him for the best return, rather that you should be open to trading him for a good return.
- jmatchett383

If someone offers a first rounder (late) would you take it?

If someone offers a first rounder (late) would you take it?
- PhillySportsGuy

In this year's draft? Yes.

Streit is playing as good as he ever will again. To not try to get a good return for him is foolish. He is not our future.
- Daveflyers36

In my previous posts, I stated that if a team wants to overpay for Streit, I'd deal him.

In this year's draft? Yes.
- jmatchett383

i feel like that is a very realistic goal.

If someone offers a first rounder (late) would you take it?
- PhillySportsGuy

Is it possible for them to get a 1st round offer for Streit and Coburn in this year's draft? I would say YES to both!

In this year's draft? Yes.
- jmatchett383

What if there were contingencies? Say Streit to Detroit for a 1st rounder if they make the conference finals or two 2nd rounders if they don't

Edit: I know Detroit is looking for RH defenseman, but just go along with it.

Who plays center? Richie or Giroux?
- Daveflyers36

giroux

You are right, a good dman would have been paid well. Instead they give 50 million to Bryz and now we are most likely stuck with Amac, an average at best d-man that is being payed well. And perhaps he did, but the logic behind the trades was to free up money for to sign Bryz. It didn't appear like he spent a whole lot time shopping those 2 around.
- Daveflyers36

I think MacDonald is a quality 2nd pair puck moving defenseman, and I'm glad the Flyers have him.

What if there were contingencies? Say Streit to Detroit for a 1st rounder if they make the conference finals or two 2nd rounders if they don't
- PhillySportsGuy

I'd be interested.

thats a couple great examples. now do you want to give the hundreds who fail?
- rinaldo

The point I was making is that just because NHL teams all pass on a guy, doesn't mean he doesn't have enough game to come back from that and contribute.

Just saying it probably wouldn't be smart to close the book on Arty and Gus yet. Bring 'em back, let 'em play meaningful minutes... what have we got to lose?

Define "a lot". And I'm talking defensemen playing at what you call a high level justifing a 5+ mil cap hit.

Sure, there are D out there playing in the upper 30's - Chara, Gonchar, Boyle, Visnovsky. But a lot at a high level? I'm not so sure.

The point is that his interest probably won't be any higher than it is now. If the right deal comes along, I wouldn't look the other way because I'd want him to coach the younger defensemen coming up, or expect him to continue to put up solid offensive numbers.
- 77rams

Don't need to define a lot. Just know that players continue to play at a high level into their late 30's on a frequent basis. There is no guarantee that because Streit is 37, he's going to severely decline in the next few seasons. I also take issue with the point that his value iwon't be any higher then it is now. He has term left on his deal that is going to limit his value in a trade, and limit interest. If he continues to play at a high level in future years, with having less term, his value and interest could peak higher.

What if there were contingencies? Say Streit to Detroit for a 1st rounder if they make the conference finals or two 2nd rounders if they don't

Edit: I know Detroit is looking for RH defenseman, but just go along with it.
- PhillySportsGuy

I'd accept just getting their 2nd back from the AMac deal... a 1st or an additional 2nd would be gravy.

The point I was making is that just because NHL teams all pass on a guy, doesn't mean he doesn't have enough game to come back from that and contribute.

Just saying it probably wouldn't be smart to close the book on Arty and Gus yet. Bring 'em back, let 'em play meaningful minutes... what have we got to lose?
- Tomahawk

I agree, the book shouldn't be closed. I don't agree that a player should be given meanigful minutes becasue "what do we have to lose" A player's play , has to warrant and earn those minutes.

I'd be interested.
- jmatchett383

Ok. I fall along the same line. I think most of us do.

If no ones really interested, I think it behooves the Flyers to hang on to him and hope he continues to put up good numbers while the term of his contract decreases. There is certainly risk involved because he could become a 3rd pairing guy next year or suffer a series of injuries.

I'd accept just getting their 2nd back from the AMac deal... a 1st or an additional 2nd would be gravy.
- Tomahawk

I'd want a little bit more. I'd at least want some contingency that could add something else.

If the Flyers would commit to a 1-2 year rebuild, they could offer to retain some money in some of these deals. It would probably enable them to get some better offers.

With the way the CAD is fluctuating, it's hard to imagine GMs taking back serious money until they find out the cap certainty.

I'd want a little bit more. I'd at least want some contingency that could add something else.

If the Flyers would commit to a 1-2 year rebuild, they could offer to retain some money in some of these deals. It would probably enable them to get some better offers.

With the way the CAD is fluctuating, it's hard to imagine GMs taking back serious money until they find out the cap certainty.
- PhillySportsGuy

Yeah, retain some salary and/or take a contract back in return -- I think that's the only way any of our guys w/ term get moved at this TDL.

I'd be more than happy to do that in order to load up on as many top-60 picks as possible in the next two drafts.

Poor Couturier
- Streit2ThePoint

Still waiting for an explanation.

Haven't both MJL and I agreed to this at least 3 times in this thread? The point he and I are making (MJL, correct me if I'm wrong) is that you shouldn't just be looking to dump him for the best return, rather that you should be open to trading him for a good return.
- jmatchett383

No, not really if you took the time and really read the entire thought process.

I opined... "Sell high. His stock probably won't be any higher now so it'd be a great time for Hexy to entertain any offers that cross his desk".

That goes without saying and wasn't anything you or anyone else hasn't already stated many times previously or has ever disagreed with.

However, the discussion turned a bit with the comment that there have been players who have played well in their upper 30's and a drop off in Streit's production wasn't expected. That, and only that, point is what I was commenting on. Not on what you and your buddy were proudly preaching.

If you choose to re-read closer, you'd see there is nothing in my post about dumping him.