for you it is
- SABRES 89

The band that should never have been: Vinnie Vincent Invasion.

Not much is worse. (playing on my TV on Hair Guitar on Sonic Radio, in case you're wondering where that came from)

You have to agree though, that even though Orton ended up being no good, we wouldn't have won some of those 7 games without him. He made many savvy veteran throws that EJ never would/could have.
- grand-magus

No not really. He did the exact same thing EJ did, lead one TD drive a game for the most part, and let the defense keep us in or win the game for us.
Sure maybe we go 8-8 with EJ, but I think it's possible he wins the KC game

That's just it though. The only thing that won those games really was "veteran experience". It wasn't superior talent.

Ultimately, sbroads is right, this team needs far, far better than either Manuel or Orton for this team to actually do something worth writing home about.
- buffalofan19

Nobody is saying that we don't need that, nobody. My point is EJ stinks so they put in Orton who is another bum because he gave them the best chance to win. When did anyone say that Orton was the future.?

If they are smart they will keep Hodgson as far away from either McDavid, Eichel or Reinhart as possible. Hodgson is done, he needs to go.
- SABRES 89

U said it yourself though, we can't trade him!
He has no value at all right now, and no one will take in that contract
Our only chance at getting rod of him is to get his stats up
I know you don't like him,
But you never actually answered my question...

"Do u think his stats will go up next year if he plays with Reinhart or McDavid, thus upping his value to the point we actually can trade him?"

No not really. He did the exact same thing EJ did, lead one TD drive a game for the most part, and let the defense keep us in or win the game for us.
Sure maybe we go 8-8 with EJ, but I think it's possible he wins the KC game
- sbroads24

Not a chance in hell we are 8-8 with EJ or he wouldn't have been benched.

That's just it though. The only thing that won those games really was "veteran experience". It wasn't superior talent.

Ultimately, sbroads is right, this team needs far, far better than either Manuel or Orton for this team to actually do something worth writing home about.
- buffalofan19

1000% agree. I just don't think we can just dismiss Orton and his contributions to the season. He did make some,and he did make some great throws and decisions.

But, again, I agree, we must do better at the position.

U said it yourself though, we can't trade him!
He has no value at all right now, and no one will take in that contract
Our only chance at getting rod of him is to get his stats up
I know you don't like him,
But you never actually answered my question...

"Do u think his stats will go up next year if he plays with Reinhart or McDavid, thus upping his value to the point we actually can trade him?"
- jdfitz77

No I don't, he doesn't have the skill.

But he still won 7 games regardless, something that EJ can't do or he wouldn't have been benched.
- SABRES 89

He was 2-2. Not 0-4.

This isn't defending him it's just facts. You act like Orton came in and saved our season. If New England needed the last game we finish 8-8

Not a chance in hell we are 8-8 with EJ or he wouldn't have been benched.
- SABRES 89

Agree.

He probably would have gotten Watkins killed with one of his phenomenal passes in no man's land.

And no way do the receivers have any confidence with EJ at the helm, which alters things.

They probably go 6-10, 7-9.

1000% agree. I just don't think we can just dismiss Orton and his contributions to the season. He did make some,and he did make some great throws and decisions.

But, again, I agree, we must do better at the position.
- grand-magus

They can be dismissed quite easily.

Again this is sort of silly, we weren't 0-4 and we didn't go on some hot streak with Kyle Orton, we continued to be a bad offense.

No I don't, he doesn't have the skill.
- SABRES 89

Then how was it he managed to score playing with Vanek & Pominville?

They can be dismissed quite easily.

Again this is sort of silly, we weren't 0-4 and we didn't go on some hot streak with Kyle Orton, we continued to be a bad offense.
- sbroads24

By you they can, sure.

And that's fine. You're entitled to your opinion.

Fact remains, prorated, if Orton had been QB all year, they were possibly poised to go 10-6. EJ would have had the same defense as Orton saving his ass, but he wouldn't have made near the plays Orton did. So they probably go 7-9, maybe.

Another JP Losman.

By you they can, sure.

And that's fine. You're entitled to your opinion.

Fact remains, if Orton been QB all year, they were possibly poised to go 10-6. EJ would have had the same defense as Orton saving his ass, but he wouldn't have made near the plays Orton did. So they probably go 7-9, maybe.

Another JP Losman.
- grand-magus

That's your opinion, not a fact. Orton got paid 5 mil, to come in, suck balls and retire. I feel i have no debt of gratitude to him or his contributions to another mediocre year.

By you they can, sure.

And that's fine. You're entitled to your opinion.

Fact remains, prorated, if Orton had been QB all year, they were possibly poised to go 10-6. EJ would have had the same defense as Orton saving his ass, but he wouldn't have made near the plays Orton did. So they probably go 7-9, maybe.

Another JP Losman.
- grand-magus

Agreed.
Other thing is that freaking EJ got our receivers almost KILLED on every freaking pass.

EJ will put Watkins in a bad spot ( again ) and he will get blasted.
- SABRES 89

Not saying EJ will be the next coming but there is a lot of hate around for a guy who has literally started 14 games in his life and 10 of those were in his rookie season behind a horrible OL.

Oh and Brady almost got one of those little white guys killed coming across them middle today. If he wouldn't have chickened out he'd still be lying on the turf.

Then how was it he managed to score playing with Vanek & Pominville?
- jdfitz77

He was playing with 2 vets, you're talking about him with rookies. If Murray had any balls he would put Hodgson on waivers and if he's not claimed, send him down. If the Kings can do it with a 2 time cup winner, we can as well.

Not saying EJ will be the next coming but there is a lot of hate around for a guy who has literally started 14 games in his life and 10 of those were in his rookie season behind a horrible OL.

Oh and Brady almost got one of those little white guys killed coming across them middle today. If he wouldn't have chickened out he'd still be lying on the turf.
- BigStew

Brady has 4 rings now, maybe he has earned the right to do that!!
EJ consistently got our receivers on a vulnerable position to get hurt.

But he still won 7 games regardless, something that EJ can't do or he wouldn't have been benched.
- SABRES 89

IMO benching EJ was the dumbest thing they did last year, if they would have just let him play he either would have improved or we would have moved on. Now they won't do that. And I still believe EJ would have won all the games EJ did. The defence was to good not too.

Not saying EJ will be the next coming but there is a lot of hate around for a guy who has literally started 14 games in his life and 10 of those were in his rookie season behind a horrible OL.

Oh and Brady almost got one of those little white guys killed coming across them middle today. If he wouldn't have chickened out he'd still be lying on the turf.
- BigStew

It's weird. They act like he completed 35% of his passes and threw more picks than TD's

Not saying EJ will be the next coming but there is a lot of hate around for a guy who has literally started 14 games in his life and 10 of those were in his rookie season behind a horrible OL.

Oh and Brady almost got one of those little white guys killed coming across them middle today. If he wouldn't have chickened out he'd still be lying on the turf.
- BigStew

First of all I don't care what color EJ is, let's get that straight right now second is, Orton for how bad he is gave us the best chance to win and he won 7 games. Even though he stinks he gave us the best chance and that's not saying much.

IMO benching EJ was the dumbest thing they did last year, if they would have just let him play he either would have improved or we would have moved on. Now they won't do that. And I still believe EJ would have won all the games EJ did. The defence was to good not too.
- BigStew

EK would have gotten our WR's killed.

IMO benching EJ was the dumbest thing they did last year, if they would have just let him play he either would have improved or we would have moved on. Now they won't do that. And I still believe EJ would have won all the games EJ did. The defence was to good not too.
- BigStew

This

Brady has 4 rings now, maybe he has earned the right to do that!!
EJ consistently got our receivers on a vulnerable position to get hurt.
- Sabresfan88

No one has the right to hang their WR out to dry and get obliterated.

EK would have gotten our WR's killed.
- SABRES 89

Then he wouldn't be here, but by not playing him, he still is.

Then he wouldn't be here, but by not playing him, he still is.
- BigStew

Well they benched him, so whats that tell you? they had no faith in him