I did not know that...

Valk was saying Daniel should be moved to the 2nd unit pp as he is looked at as another set up man on the first unit - he isn't shooting.

We really need the addition of a top 6 winger with some finish. It is just so disappointing that Daniel doesn't even look like he wants, for the majority of time, to shoot anymore.
- hillbillydeluxe

It sounds good, but again when you look at the numbers you'll see that the 1st unit isn't even the problem. We just blame them when the PP suck because the 2nd unit is hopeless. On decent PP teams, the 2nd unit actually scores so the 1st unit can actually get away with not scoring on the PP every for 2-3 or even more games.

I'm confused by this statement.
When has he played with the Sedins?
- Marwood

PP

exactly... and not meaning to gang up on belcher, but it is unfair to say the best player available via trade, when he only gave one team he was willing to waive his ntc to be traded there....

That first round pick that turned into McCann might end up being the best part of the trade. Turning lemons into lemonade.
- hillbillydeluxe

I understand that Kesler apparently said he was only willing to be moved to Anh or Chi. That certainly makes it harder to move him but, that still doesn't make the return solid....I don't blame Benning for not getting a better package but I'm not ready to congratulate on his return either.

I still have faith in Benning and think he is the right guy for the job, but I'm not yet ready to say that he has done a good job with his trades or signing so far.

It sounds good, but again when you look at the numbers you'll see that the 1st unit isn't even the problem. We just blame them when the PP suck because the 2nd unit is hopeless. On decent PP teams, the 2nd unit actually scores so the 1st unit can actually get away with not scoring on the PP every for 2-3 or even more games.
- Nucker101

You are prolly right. it is just that the second unit only gets around 30-45 seconds per pp. Maybe they don't deserve more because they suck.

I do like your idea of using the second unit as a reward for whoever is working hard on the night.

I agree Kesler likely did make it hard to facilitate a trade, but that doesn't mean that Benning got a solid return.

Vey does contribute but not at the same level as Garrison would IMO.

Clendening is a rookie but at 22 and waiver eligible and a soon to be RFA, needs to be a player in the NHL for him to be worth moving a player with the same skill set but with 4 more years of development ahead of him.

People complain about Gillis trying to "outsmart" other GM's by drafting overagers who might be more NHL ready but I see Benning taking the same approach with acquiring guys who are further developed at the expense of picks.
- belcherbd

Vey is a rookie to.

First of all, I'm pretty sure trading away Garrison's contract was a first assignment...

Again, Kesler to the Ducks was the only trade. Hands tied completely.

Again, Vey is also a rookie.

...and how many "pick*s*" has Benning traded away? I may be wrong but I can remember 1.

I didn't have a problem with it, but that unit had no net presence so they started to cool down. Almost every top PP unit always includes having traffic in front of the net.

This is why I can't believe Bo Horvat isn't at least on the 2nd unit, he's one of the more willing players on the team to go to the net and pretty big/strong so he won't be easily moved. At this point the 2nd unit is such a availability that WD should basically use it as a reward by giving playing time for any Canuck having a good night, regardless if it's Bo Horvat, Chris Higgins or Brad Richardson. Clearly their practice and "system" isn't working so just throw out whoever is playing well and let them do whatever they want. Either that or do what AV used to do and just give the first unit 90-100 seconds on the PP since the 2nd unit isn't a threat to score.
- Nucker101

I'm hoping post TDL, they have no choice but to play Horvat on the 2nd PP unit.

I understand that Kesler apparently said he was only willing to be moved to Anh or Chi. That certainly makes it harder to move him but, that still doesn't make the return solid....I don't blame Benning for not getting a better package but I'm not ready to congratulate on his return either.

I still have faith in Benning and think he is the right guy for the job, but I'm not yet ready to say that he has done a good job with his trades or signing so far.
- belcherbd

It was widely reported that he took the Hawks off the 2 team list in the end. Hard to pat him on the back or criticize a guy who has 1 trade available. It is what it is.

Benning picked up two tradable assets in Vrbata and Miller for nothing but cash and ink. They have both played well.

I understand that Kesler apparently said he was only willing to be moved to Anh or Chi. That certainly makes it harder to move him but, that still doesn't make the return solid....I don't blame Benning for not getting a better package but I'm not ready to congratulate on his return either.

I still have faith in Benning and think he is the right guy for the job, but I'm not yet ready to say that he has done a good job with his trades or signing so far.
- belcherbd

The rumour on destinations actually became only Anaheim just before the trade. I am not sure if he changed his mind about Chicago or if the club was unable to negotiate anything close to the return they would get from the Ducks.

And it is fair to reserve judgement on JB's performance on the whole, he has been on the job less than a year. But with all the ntc's and assets available for trade and expectations on what a reasonable return would be, I can't complain.

I look at it as though we needed another top6 forward with some finish, we get Vrbata.

We had too many dmen with ntc's, we trade Garrison.

I wanted to run with Lack and get an experienced backup but players at their exit interviews last season said they wanted an established starter- JB signs Miller.

We are lacking prospects and grit- we get Vey and Dorsett...

I am fine with the moves but recognize more moves are needed.

The Ducks deal was the only deal so how can there be any judgement passed on that unless it's judgement on Gillis who had more options the season before Kesler narrowed it down to the Ducks only?

Vey is a rookie who contributes. Just how much impact does he have to have in his rookie season to justify the cap dump? We need to wait to judge a move for a rookie player, don't we?

Same with the Clendening deal. He's a rookie.... we have to be patient past this season to judge and seeing what we gave up will take even longer. I don't understand how all this youth brought in has to prove itself this year to judge Benning?
- boonerbuck

Yeah, make no sense at all.

Vey is a rookie to.

First of all, I'm pretty sure trading away Garrison's contract was an first assignment...

Again, Kesler to the Ducks was the only trade. Hands tied completely.

Again, Vey is also a rookie.

...and how many "pick*s*" has Benning traded away? I may be wrong but I can remember 1.
- boonerbuck

3rd for Dorsett (from Kesler trade)
2nd for Vey (from Garrison trade)
3rd for Pedan (Mallet as well)
3rd with Kesler for Bonino, Sbisa,1st and 3rd
Forsling (5th) for Clendening

I don't understand why you keep saying Vey is a Rookie.....I agree and I agree Kesler used his NTC to limit the teams he would go to but that doesn't mean equal value came back.

PP
- boonerbuck

Thanks.
Sorry to hear you got skunked up in Terrace. I spent my summers on Lakelse Lake visiting my grandparents. Pretty special place!

3rd for Dorsett (from Kesler trade)
2nd for Vey (from Garrison trade)
3rd for Pedan (Mallet as well)
3rd with Kesler for Bonino, Sbisa,1st and 3rd
Forsling (5th) for Clendening

I don't understand why you keep saying Vey is a Rookie.....I agree and I agree Kesler used his NTC to limit the teams he would go to but that doesn't mean equal value came back.
- belcherbd

Really to me the only trade where he's traded a pick for a vet, short-term asset is the 3rd for Dorsett. And we can all agree that Dorsett was sorely needed on this team even if this season isn't really going anywhere.

well at least my weekend wasn't all bad as I caught the Utica/Marlies game on Saturday.

Lines:

Jeffrey O'Reilly Grenier
Shinkaruk Friesen Jensen
Gaunce Zalewsky Sestito
DeFazio Acton Archibald

Pedan Huskins
Biega Lafranchise
Andersson Ehrhardt

Eriksson

Pedan had the OT game winner on a nice 2 on 1 set-up. This was my first chance to see Pedan play and I was pretty impressed. His skating is rather smooth for big guy and he did well to use his size & stick reach. On one play, he held the offensive blue line and gave crushing hit to Spencer Abbott, then raced back on the subsequent 2 on 2 and hip checked another Marlies player to clear out the Utica crease. His passing does seem weak, a few of his exit passes were intercepted and/or just weak and turned over. His shot is quick and appears to have some weight. At times he looked like a poor man's Darnel Nurse, skating the puck up the ice. His frame is lanky though, I think he could add an extra 5-10% body mass without losing too much speed.

Jensen was a ghost for this game.

Shinkaruk showed some improvement in his game. I found he was passing a lot more & using his teammates compared to the early season game I caught. He was a turnover machine in September. Although improved, he still seems a ways away from being dominant and being able to drive the play.

I also liked Gaunce's game. He's so smart positionally, knows where to go and is responsible defensively. He led the team with 6 shots and although mostly were from the perimeter, they ended up being dangerous with players driving the net and/or the goalie was screened.

Dan Cloutier was sitting with his family a couple seats over scouting the game. I was going thank him for those exciting WCE years but when I remembered the old playoff gif of a beach ball going through his legs, I stayed away as he'd probably think I was trolling him.

3rd for Dorsett (from Kesler trade)
2nd for Vey (from Garrison trade)
3rd for Pedan (Mallet as well)
3rd with Kesler for Bonino, Sbisa,1st and 3rd
Forsling (5th) for Clendening

I don't understand why you keep saying Vey is a Rookie.....I agree and I agree Kesler used his NTC to limit the teams he would go to but that doesn't mean equal value came back.
- belcherbd

I repeated Vey as rookie because you passed that over on your replies when mentioning other rookies.

Forsling is a prospect not a pick. That was a player swap.

I forgot about the 3rd for Pedan like I suggest I might.

Hard to point at the 3rd in the Kesler deal with a 1st and a 3rd coming back.

So it's two picks. Two picks for a young player and Dorsett who has been awesome.

I do not see the point in arguing equal value for Kesler. Benning got what he was given. The only other option was to continue with the Kesler circus or take the deal available. This type of situation has played out far worse for other teams involving high end assets and almost zero market.

Really to me the only trade where he's traded a pick for a vet, short-term asset is the 3rd for Dorsett. And we can all agree that Dorsett was sorely needed on this team even if this season isn't really going anywhere.
- Nucker101

I agree completely, I like that deal and I don't think Benning has moved picks for vets.

Thanks.
Sorry to hear you got skunked up in Terrace. I spent my summers on Lakelse Lake visiting my grandparents. Pretty special place!
- Marwood

I was on the upper Lakelse two days ago for the first time. Walked down from Herman's run. Such a petty river.

well at least my weekend wasn't all bad as I caught the Utica/Marlies game on Saturday.

Lines:

Jeffrey O'Reilly Grenier
Shinkaruk Friesen Jensen
Gaunce Zalewsky Sestito
DeFazio Acton Archibald

Pedan Huskins
Biega Lafranchise
Andersson Ehrhardt

Eriksson

Pedan had the OT game winner on a nice 2 on 1 set-up. This was my first chance to see Pedan play and I was pretty impressed. His skating is rather smooth for big guy and he did well to use his size & stick reach. On one play, he held the offensive blue line and gave crushing hit to Spencer Abbott, then raced back on the subsequent 2 on 2 and hip checked another Marlies player to clear out the Utica crease. His passing does seem weak, a few of his exit passes were intercepted and/or just weak and turned over. His shot is quick and appears to have some weight. At times he looked like a poor man's Darnel Nurse, skating the puck up the ice. His frame is lanky though, I think he could add an extra 5-10% body mass without losing too much speed.

Jensen was a ghost for this game.

Shinkaruk showed some improvement in his game. I found he was passing a lot more & using his teammates compared to the early season game I caught. He was a turnover machine in September. Although improved, he still seems a ways away from being dominant and being able to drive the play.

I also liked Gaunce's game. He's so smart positionally, knows where to go and is responsible defensively. He led the team with 6 shots and although mostly were from the perimeter, they ended up being dangerous with players driving the net and/or the goalie was screened.

Dan Cloutier was sitting with his family a couple seats over scouting the game. I was going thank him for those exciting WCE years but when I remembered the old playoff gif of a beach ball going through his legs, I stayed away as he'd probably think I was trolling him.
- Crying_Wrestler

Loving the influx of reports/scouting/opinions from the posters here

Pedan just keeps developing from what iv seen and heard. Apparently his first pass has always been suspect but yields a hell of a shot. Nice to hear that he has worked on his positioning. The guy hits and fights like a truck, never though his weight would be an issue?

One thing i don't understand (not that it's hurting the team) is why Gaunce isn't deployed at center? I don't expect him to beat out career AHL's like O'Reilly and Acton, but i fail to see how he can't out play Friesen in that role?

3rd for Dorsett (from Kesler trade)
2nd for Vey (from Garrison trade)
3rd for Pedan (Mallet as well)
3rd with Kesler for Bonino, Sbisa,1st and 3rd
Forsling (5th) for Clendening

I don't understand why you keep saying Vey is a Rookie.....I agree and I agree Kesler used his NTC to limit the teams he would go to but that doesn't mean equal value came back.
- belcherbd

Maybe Im interjecting at the wrong point, but I'd give Benning a flier on the Kesler trade - guy was backed into a corner he couldnt get out of so he got what he could.

I do believe that I heard recently that actually had no plan to trade Kesler but upper management/owners forced his hand.

Its early and Benning has shown some creativity that Gillis believed he had but didnt. God forbid another trade with Florida.....

I repeated Vey as rookie because you passed that over on your replies when mentioning other rookies.

Forsling is a prospect not a pick. That was a player swap.

I forgot about the 3rd for Pedan like I suggest I might.

Hard to point at the 3rd in the Kesler deal with a 1st and a 3rd coming back.

So it's two picks. Two picks for a young player and Dorsett who has been awesome.

I do not see the point in arguing equal value for Kesler. Benning got what he was given. The only other option was to continue with the Kesler circus or take the deal available. This type of situation has played out far worse for other teams involving high end assets and almost zero market.
- boonerbuck

I totally agree with all that your saying, where I disagree is with the sentiment earlier suggested that all of Benning's moves have been solid, when I hear solid I think good value. I'm not ready to suggest his moves have been solid yet, they may in time.
Also just because Benning got what he was given, doesn't mean he got good value. He did the best with what he had sure, but at this point I can't say that he did well.

I repeated Vey as rookie because you passed that over on your replies when mentioning other rookies.

Forsling is a prospect not a pick. That was a player swap.

I forgot about the 3rd for Pedan like I suggest I might.

Hard to point at the 3rd in the Kesler deal with a 1st and a 3rd coming back.

So it's two picks. Two picks for a young player and Dorsett who has been awesome.

I do not see the point in arguing equal value for Kesler. Benning got what he was given. The only other option was to continue with the Kesler circus or take the deal available. This type of situation has played out far worse for other teams involving high end assets and almost zero market.
- boonerbuck

Boony......*sigh*.....I agree with you wholeheartedly on this one.....

I totally agree with all that your saying, where I disagree is with the sentiment earlier suggested that all of Benning's moves have been solid, when I hear solid I think good value. I'm not ready to suggest his moves have been solid yet, they may in time.
Also just because Benning got what he was given, doesn't mean he got good value. He did the best with what he had sure, but at this point I can't say that he did well.
- belcherbd

I think Benning would be the first to argue that the value he got wasnt fair but what choice did he have?

I totally agree with all that your saying, where I disagree is with the sentiment earlier suggested that all of Benning's moves have been solid, when I hear solid I think good value. I'm not ready to suggest his moves have been solid yet, they may in time.
Also just because Benning got what he was given, doesn't mean he got good value. He did the best with what he had sure, but at this point I can't say that he did well.
- belcherbd

I will admit that some of the trades caught me off-guard and disappointed (Garrsion) but i think that the vast majority of his moves are going to take a few years to decipher. That said i do admire the fact that he's got the balls to wheel and deal, most notably in the interest of making the team younger.

Happy Groundhog day fellers (6 more weeks of winter ICYWW)

Watched the movie for the first time last night. Solid flick

My .02 on Benning's trade resume so far is on the whole his moves/intentions have been solid, but I think he's given up a bit of value in a couple. This is not to say that they were bad trades but I think he could've gotten a bit more or given up a bit less.
Garr for a 2nd I thought was underselling Garrison a bit
Vey for a 2nd I thought was a bit of an overpayment
Pedan for a 3rd seemed like an overpayment
Dorsett I thought would be cheaper than a 3rd but has been awesome value
Forsling for Clendening I would call a steal - similar player to Vey that was had for a former 5th round pick who padded his stats in the WJC

I didn't have a problem with it, but that unit had no net presence so they started to cool down. Almost every top PP unit always includes having traffic in front of the net.

This is why I can't believe Bo Horvat isn't at least on the 2nd unit, he's one of the more willing players on the team to go to the net and pretty big/strong so he won't be easily moved. At this point the 2nd unit is such a availability that WD should basically use it as a reward by giving playing time for any Canuck having a good night, regardless if it's Bo Horvat, Chris Higgins or Brad Richardson. Clearly their practice and "system" isn't working so just throw out whoever is playing well and let them do whatever they want. Either that or do what AV used to do and just give the first unit 90-100 seconds on the PP since the 2nd unit isn't a threat to score.
- Nucker101

The 2nd unit is painful, pretty much a guaranteed momentum shift for the opposing team, which is not how you want to end an unsuccessful pp. Even if you don't score, you at least want to be generating chances and tiring out the defenders. How they can be so inneffective against the other team's second tier defenders is mind boggling.

They've had over half a season to try and sort it out and, if anything, they seem to be getting worse.