poop, that ain't even the worst trade in Philly history. The Phils have made 3 or 4 trades with the Cubs worse than JvR for Schenn:

1. Larry Bowa and Ryne Sandberg for Ivan DeJesus

2. Fergie Jenkins, Adolfo Phillipa & John Herrenstein for Larry Jackson and Bob Buhl

3. Porfi Altimirano, Bob Derneir and Gary Matthews for Bill Campbell & Mike Diaz.
- Jsaquella

#1 is just laughably bad, on any level you want to slice it

Agreed -- the defense was just (frank)ed tonight, just like the other two times they played NY
- AllInForFlyers

They couldn't get puck out of own end, bad passes, stupid pinches, weak NZ play. Ugh.

It was a lot of guys. The only somewhat effective line was the VinnyVelde line. The defense was a (frank)ing mess. Not to shift blame from Giroux and Voracek, but a lot of the time it seemed that they had MacDonald, Grossmann or Schenn out on D with them, and all three of those guys had bad nights.
- Jsaquella

grossmann back in the lineup = loss

long layoff = loss

Flyers lose ground. Hopefully Hexy is smart enough to realize the chances of playoffs a small to none.

I agree with this. Sit his ass. Call it am injury. Whatever enough is enough
- Just5

At some point, you just have to fall back and punt. This just isn't his year

poop, that ain't even the worst trade in Philly history. The Phils have made 3 or 4 trades with the Cubs worse than JvR for Schenn:

1. Larry Bowa and Ryne Sandberg for Ivan DeJesus

2. Fergie Jenkins, Adolfo Phillipa & John Herrenstein for Larry Jackson and Bob Buhl

3. Porfi Altimirano, Bob Derneir and Gary Matthews for Bill Campbell & Mike Diaz.
- Jsaquella

Dude, I don't know. We traded the #2 overall pick for anOHL 7th defenseman

Going into this game, I would have took a shootout loss, so I'm grateful for it.

Luke Schenn, worst second period I've ever seen by one player. With this said, the Flyers were so outplayed that if it wasn't going to be Luke to screw up, it would have been someone else, so why not Luke?

I was asking for the 4th line to be broken up earlier today because I felt they've been OK at best since starting off so hot together when Lecavalier first returned from being scratched. They were great. With this said though, I don't dislike Bellemare but beyond this season when I believe we'll be looking to form a less replied upon fourth line, I think I really like Ryan White back there over Bellemare. White is younger, more gritty and if he can play the PK, he's a fine player to hang on to for a number of years. I do like Bellemare but he doesn't give me the same confidence Blair Betts, Kent Manderville and Jimmy Dowd gave me in terms of starting and being used on defensive situations, PK and strong on faceoffs. Over the last number of years, I'm pretty sure our 4th line center is our best or second best faceoff man.

Of course I don't have all the states in front of me but I don't see Ryan White playing on the second or third line forever.

Flyers lose ground. Hopefully Hexy is smart enough to realize the chances of playoffs a small to none.
- jstross

If Kimmo is coming back I think at least two D men are moving. My money would be on Kimmo first and foremost and then Coburn for a big return or Carlo for a 5th or something.

#1 is just laughably bad, on any level you want to slice it
- AllInForFlyers

Bowa, even at 40, was a better shortstop than DeJesus. Sandberg obviously went on to be a HOFer. Same thing with Jenkins. Had a HOF career, Phils got 38 games out of Buhl-with a near 5 ERA and a couple decent years out of Larry Jackson.

The last one handed the Cubs the NL East in 1984. Dernier had a few good years, Sarge was great for the Cubs and Diaz never played for the Phils and Campbell was a mediocre middle reliever for one year in Philly.

It was a lot of guys. The only somewhat effective line was the VinnyVelde line. The defense was a (frank)ing mess. Not to shift blame from Giroux and Voracek, but a lot of the time it seemed that they had MacDonald, Grossmann or Schenn out on D with them, and all three of those guys had bad nights.
- Jsaquella

The defenseman Giroux was on the ice with the most was Del Zotto. Interesting that they're the only defenseman that are named, when MacDonald had a much better then Del Zotto did. The Flyers generated the most shot attempts for when MacDonald was on the ice. The most shot attempts generated by the Isles against the Flyers was when Del Zotto was on the ice.

Dude, I don't know. We traded the #2 overall pick for anOHL 7th defenseman
- CACannon18

It's a bad trade, but two of those deals saw the Phillies trade away HOFers for garbage.

If Kimmo is coming back I think at least two D men are moving. My money would be on Kimmo first and foremost and then Coburn for a big return or Carlo for a 5th or something.
- hereticpride

We have to parlay the extra Dmen into picks. It just makes way too much sense. I just hope Kimmo stays healthy. Great player and one of my favorites. Win win if we get picks and he can make a cup run.

If Kimmo is coming back I think at least two D men are moving. My money would be on Kimmo first and foremost and then Coburn for a big return or Carlo for a 5th or something.
- hereticpride

Coburn for a 2nd next year and 3rd this year
Kimmo for a 3rd

The defenseman Giroux was on the ice with the most was Del Zotto. Interesting that they're the only defenseman that are named, when MacDonald had a much better game then Del Zotto did. The Flyers generated the most shot attempts for when MacDonald was on the ice. The most shot attempts generated by the Isles against the Flyers was when Del Zotto was on the ice.
- MJL

Man, we all watched that game -- Del Zotto wasn't Nick Lidstrom out there, but he wasn't giving the puck away like the rest of the crew tonight. They were giving up shots because every other second, somebody was giving away the puck

Schenn was just bad tonight, MacDonald wasn't much better

Coburn for a 2nd next year and 3rd this year
Kimmo for a 3rd
- Just5

That's a terrible deal for Coburn. I'm not willing to give him away.

That's a terrible deal for Coburn. I'm not willing to give him away.
- MJL

Yeah, I would not touch that deal. Coburn gets a late first, good prospect or he stays put.

Man, we all watched that game -- Del Zotto wasn't Nick Lidstrom out there, but he wasn't giving the puck away like the rest of the crew tonight. They were giving up shots because every other second, somebody was giving away the puck

Schenn was just bad tonight, MacDonald wasn't much better
- AllInForFlyers

Honestly, other then the 4th line, nobody was really good. It's just funny how the favorites are given a pass, and the scapegoat who actually played better, is criticized. I'm just using the numbers that are normally given to praise players and criticize others. Personally with the exception of Mason, who was great, and the 4th line, I think the team as a whole sucked. Islanders are definitely a better and quicker team, but the Flyers skated like crap tonight.

Honestly, other then the 4th line, nobody was really good. It's just funny how the favorites are given a pass, and the scapegoat who actually played better, is criticized. I'm just using the numbers that are normally given to praise players and criticize others. Personally with the exception of Mason, who was great, and the 4th line, I think the team as a whole sucked. Islanders are definitely a better and quicker team, but the Flyers skated like crap tonight.
- MJL

Fair enough, but I don't think there was scapegoating -- a lot of players had tough nights, but on defense, only Streit and Schultz were relatively stable, and even that wasn't always

By definition, that means the other four guys were degrees of bad, and that was what was said

We have to parlay the extra Dmen into picks. It just makes way too much sense. I just hope Kimmo stays healthy. Great player and one of my favorites. Win win if we get picks and he can make a cup run.
- jstross

Streit: keep, but take offers. Someone could really overpay for what he's been bringing this year.

MDZ: keep.

Schultz: keep so long as the number and term isn't ridiculous.

AMac: He isnt moving.

Coburn: This should be our big ticket item this deadline. Can't give him away for peanuts though.

Schenn: keep for now.

Grossmann: Toss up for me.

Carlo: Sell for whatever you can get.

Kimmo: Sell.

ob, I am highly offended by the Islanders' win celebration gif. Please have it deleted and never used again

Fair enough, but I don't think there was scapegoating -- a lot of players had tough nights, but on defense, only Streit and Schultz were relatively stable, and even that wasn't always

By definition, that means the other four guys were degrees of bad, and that was what was said
- AllInForFlyers

Using the standard that is normally used, if we want to look at players that were slightly better on a team that was soundly outplayed overall, MacDonald belongs on the list ahead of a number of players.

Man, we all watched that game -- Del Zotto wasn't Nick Lidstrom out there, but he wasn't giving the puck away like the rest of the crew tonight. They were giving up shots because every other second, somebody was giving away the puck

Schenn was just bad tonight, MacDonald wasn't much better
- AllInForFlyers

The whole team did suck. There really were not many skaters who stood out, outside of the 4th line.

Looking at the shift chart, Giroux & Voracek actually spent time with all three pairs-most of the early going with Grossmann & MacDonald, then with Schultz and Streit. They had MDZ and MacDonald early in the second, but had several shifts with Grossmann and Schenn. In the third, Giroux barely had any shifts with Del Zotto.

Streit: keep, but take offers. Someone could really overpay for what he's been bringing this year.

MDZ: keep.

Schultz: keep so long as the number and term isn't ridiculous.

AMac: He isnt moving.

Coburn: This should be our big ticket item this deadline. Can't give him away for peanuts though.

Schenn: keep for now.

Grossmann: Toss up for me.

Carlo: Sell for whatever you can get.

Kimmo: Sell.
- hereticpride

What if Kimmo doesn't want to go? Do you keep Coburn so you can see if,he gets his game on track?

The whole team did suck. There really were not many skaters who stood out, outside of the 4th line.

Looking at the shift chart, Giroux & Voracek actually spent time with all three pairs-most of the early going with Grossmann & MacDonald, then with Schultz and Streit. They had MDZ and MacDonald early in the second, but had several shifts with Grossmann and Schenn. In the third, Giroux barely had any shifts with Del Zotto.
- Jsaquella

I miss Raffl on the top line. He seems to work much better with them than Schenn

Using the standard that is normally used, if we want to look at players that were slightly better on a team that was soundly outplayed overall, MacDonald belongs on the list ahead of a number of players.
- MJL

I know what goes on here every day, but I don't think that was relevant for tonight.

There was a lot of blame to go around tonight. I like numbers, but I know what I saw tonight, too