John Tavares
Kyle Okposo
Ryan Strome
Brock Nelson
Frans Nielsen
Johnny Boychuk
Josh Bailey
Nick Leddy
Anders Lee
Nikolay Kulemin
Mikhail Grabovski
Travis Hamonic
Thomas Hickey
Lubomir Visnovsky
Cal Clutterbuck
Calvin de Haan
Casey Cizikas
Matt Martin
Michael Grabner
Brian Strait
Matt Donovan
Cory Conacher
Colin McDonald
Griffin Reinhart
Eric Boulton
Harry Zolnierczyk

Thats a great team, honestly. They also positioned themselves well in the offseason to essentially let kulemin, grabo and boychuk fall into their lap because of poor cap management by other teams.

Corsi - where Craig Adams gets punished for blocking a shot.

Fenwick - where Beau Bennett is a more effective possession player than Malkin or Crosby this year.

Usage - where zone starts and QoC find meaning despite a coach who doesn't line match or seem to care who puts out there after an icing and a commercial break.

Meanwhile, Crosby is on an 82 point pace, Malkin is on an 80 point pace, and Malkin has scored one power play goal in his last 22 games.

But they're both just fine.
- hardnosed

Regardless of all that, you cant ignore that our bottom two lines are absolutely useless when it comes to scoring goals. We are lucky if they even generate offense in a game. The sad part is Downie is probably our best scorer away from our top 2 lines and he spends half the game in the penalty box!

Regardless of all that, you cant ignore that our bottom two lines are absolutely useless when it comes to scoring goals. We are lucky if they even generate offense in a game. The sad part is Downie is probably our best scorer away from our top 2 lines and he spends half the game in the penalty box!
- thickman1178

I was so hopeful that Lapierre being here would mean Downie can focus more on playing real hockey, maybe even taking Malkin's one wing... and Lapierre can be the enforcer douchebag.

Because we all know Downie had high point seasons in the past, and hockey wise, this is the best hes looked since the string of injuries. If he would just become an NHL player again and not an enforcer, it'd be great.

Regardless of all that, you cant ignore that our bottom two lines are absolutely useless when it comes to scoring goals. We are lucky if they even generate offense in a game. The sad part is Downie is probably our best scorer away from our top 2 lines and he spends half the game in the penalty box!
- thickman1178

They're fine at scoring goals. 17 goal pace for Sutter isn't too far off what I would expect from a third line center. 14 or so pace for Downie, 11 or so pace for Spaling is about what Kennedy and Cooke put up most years.

Ideally seeing about 10 more goals out of that group would be ideal. But I think it's more reasonable to expect Crosby and Malkin to be on paces that exceed the low 80's. Those guys get paid to put up 100+ points in a healthy season, and they're not doing it.

You know, I was under the impression this year was to be a sort of "transition year" to clean up the shero/bylsma mess, and I think we all forgot the cap/roster situation we are more or less stuck with due to the teams great start this year. Lets remember the following garbage players will hopefully not be back next year: craig adams, max lapierre, mark arcobello, zach sill, robert bortuzzo and thomas greiss. I'd imagine the Penguinz would extend blake comeau, and steve downie at insignificant cap raises. Also remember christian erhoff and paul martin will be more than likely walking after this year.
- saintjust21

Where do you get any of your info from? Transition year? Greiss is horrible? We have given the guy all of 5 starts this year? Erhoff was reportedly looking to resign here with talks shelved for the time being. Martin may walk, but said he is open to talks with the Pens as well.

Best RW blog to date, IMO.




F Sutter
- nbartley9

Sheep

I was so hopeful that Lapierre being here would mean Downie can focus more on playing real hockey, maybe even taking Malkin's one wing... and Lapierre can be the enforcer douchebag.

Because we all know Downie had high point seasons in the past, and hockey wise, this is the best hes looked since the string of injuries. If he would just become an NHL player again and not an enforcer, it'd be great.
- Guile

I agree completely. Meanwhile hes trying to fight guys who are 6'2" and weight 240 while Zach Sill hides in a corner.

They're fine at scoring goals. 17 goal pace for Sutter isn't too far off what I would expect from a third line center. 14 or so pace for Downie, 11 or so pace for Spaling is about what Kennedy and Cooke put up most years.

Ideally seeing about 10 more goals out of that group would be ideal. But I think it's more reasonable to expect Crosby and Malkin to be on paces that exceed the low 80's. Those guys get paid to put up 100+ points in a healthy season, and they're not doing it.
- hardnosed

If you think are bottom two lines are "fine" at scoring goals, you dont watch a lot of other teams play. Granted Id like more out of our big two as well, but if youre saying 10 more goals over the next 30 games from our bottom 2 lines is all you expect, then you have seriously low expectations.

Can someone who is better with numbers for me breakdown what % of goals have been scored by our 1st and 2nd lines compared to our 3rd and 4th? If we could then compare that to other teams in the NHL, that would show you just how deficient they really are.

Really? It's Sutter (and probably Spalings too in your mind) shortcomings and over spending that's killing this team? All 1-2M that MIGHT be overspent????

Here are the Islanders (below)...ahead of us in the standings and OWNING US during the regular season so far...why?

Because they have better depth via corsi and fenwick numbers?

There's only a couple of other teams in the NHL that has as similar TWO FORWARD STUD model...the Blackhawks being the one team that most closely resembles the Penguins in terms of money spent and where (two high priced forwards...big money on D and in goal).

We all know they are in a world of hurt with salary come next year when Kane and Toews get paid like Malkin and Crosby. Can't afford all that DEPTH...when you pay that big money to so few players.

So either those big guys earn their big pay...or you divide the riches among more able bodied players you acquire by changing the model...right?

The reason the Penguins suffer the same problems now as they did before is because they keep Malkin and Crosby. Which is fine to me if you get $20M worth of performance out of them. And when Malkin and Crosby don't play like the 1st and second best players in the league...this team can't win a cup as constructed.
- icedog97

The high salaries being expended on a limited number of players should reinforce discretionary spending on depth players. Every team needs high salary players to play well to succeed. That doesn't negate the discretionary spending argument in the least as depth roles are important. And none more important than the 3C where the Pens are paying $3.3 million for 4th line results. The team could replace him internally or with an acquisition and very likely produce greater results for certainly less money. The Pens are getting their money's worth out of Crosby, Malkin, and Letang (Fleury as well currently). They are not out of Sutter. That is the problem.

17 goal pace for Sutter isn't too far off what I would expect from a third line center.
- hardnosed

On another note, are you and Slutter related? You seem to be his hero on these boards and thats the only explanation I can come up with for defending someone who is so utterly useless at the moment, especially for as much as he makes. The guy is thrown off the puck by a strong breeze for the love of god. All hes got going for him is he can win faceoffs.

Sheep
- dbell646

Haha, very nice.


Seriously though, it was not overloaded with graphs and charts of nonsense. I actually did like it, for all the times I hate his blog its only right to say when I think it was a good write up.


Sheep you say? where is Killian when you need him? haha

If you think are bottom two lines are "fine" at scoring goals, you dont watch a lot of other teams play.

- thickman1178

Well, you mentioned Kulemin and Grabovski above. Guess who has the same number of goals and assists as Kulemin? Sutter. Guess who has the same number of goals and more assists than Grabovski? Downie.

Granted Id like more out of our big two as well, but if youre saying 10 more goals over the next 30 games from our bottom 2 lines is all you expect, then you have seriously low expectations.

- thickman1178

That's not at all what I said. I said between the three I'd like them to be on a 10 goal higher pace for the season. Sutter on a 20 goal pace, Downie on a 17 goal pace, Spaling on a 15 goal pace. Point is that despite being ice-cold lately, those guys aren't too far of that pace.

And of course there's been plenty of other guys who have spent time on the third line this year.

Haha, very nice.


Seriously though, it was not overloaded with graphs and charts of nonsense. I actually did like it, for all the times I hate his blog its only right to say when I think it was a good write up.


Sheep you say? where is Killian when you need him? haha
- nbartley9

Probably banned. You ever use a warrior stick? I'm an Easton guy but I might buy a warrior

On another note, are you and Slutter related? You seem to be his hero on these boards and thats the only explanation I can come up with for defending someone who is so utterly useless at the moment, especially for as much as he makes. The guy is thrown off the puck by a strong breeze for the love of god. All hes got going for him is he can win faceoffs.
- thickman1178

Honestly, are you 12 years old? Like, seriously?

I have no attachment to Sutter. I just enjoy getting in the way of fallacious arguments.

And you just said that all he's got going is he can win faceoffs.



(career 48%)

Where do you get any of your info from? Transition year? Greiss is horrible? We have given the guy all of 5 starts this year? Erhoff was reportedly looking to resign here with talks shelved for the time being. Martin may walk, but said he is open to talks with the Pens as well.
- thickman1178

Greiss: hasnt been used as well as he could be this year, why pay 1 mil for a goalie that has 8 starts on the year. He hasnt been exactly great in those starts though...heres my 'information '
http://www.nhl.com/ice/m_player.htm?id=8471306

Erhoff: alot of writers were surprised there was such interest from erhoffs camp to sign another deal in the middle of the season, the fact that talks are being held off wasnt unexpected and means potentially could walk.
http://thepensblog.com/20...load-ehrhoffs-future.html
yes thats a pensblog link, but its colligan and last I knew he was a pretty reputable writer in pitt.

Transition year: look at cap central up there, and you tell me how many of our current bottom 6 are ufa's. Then remember how many of our bottom 6 this year and last before the wheeling and dealing were on multi year contracts. Yes a bottom 6 transition year away from shero multi year bad contracts to one year rutherford contracts to give us flexibilityin this off season

Well, you mentioned Kulemin and Grabovski above. Guess who has the same number of goals and assists as Kulemin? Sutter. Guess who has the same number of goals and more assists than Grabovski? Downie.
- hardnosed

Wasnt me.

That's not at all what I said. I said between the three I'd like them to be on a 10 goal higher pace for the season. Sutter on a 20 goal pace, Downie on a 17 goal pace, Spaling on a 15 goal pace. Point is that despite being ice-cold lately, those guys aren't too far of that pace.
- hardnosed

If thats what you mean, then I agree. I still just think we cant continue to rely on our big two year after year and expect different results. Those two aside, we just need more scoring from our bottom 2 lines if we want to go far in the playoffs.

We have seen what happens when we just plug holes and pray.

Probably banned. You ever use a warrior stick? I'm an Easton guy but I might buy a warrior
- dbell646

Actually I did use a warrior last year, it had too much flex for my liking. It said it was a 110, but surly didn't feel like a stiff flex.

Honestly, are you 12 years old? Like, seriously?

I have no attachment to Sutter. I just enjoy getting in the way of fallacious arguments.

And you just said that all he's got going is he can win faceoffs.



(career 48%)
- hardnosed

Exactly. And thats the best thing we can say about him.

Also, I am not a 12 year old, but I do play one when posting online.

Actually I did use a warrior last year, it had too much flex for my liking. It said it was a 110, but surly didn't feel like a stiff flex.
- nbartley9

Probably just stick with Easton then. new synergy's look good.

Actually I did use a warrior last year, it had too much flex for my liking. It said it was a 110, but surly didn't feel like a stiff flex.
- nbartley9

Warrior and Sher-Wood are bad for that.

Warrior and Sher-Wood are bad for that.
- BINGO!

Wonder why?

Probably just stick with Easton then. new synergy's look good.
- dbell646

I loved the Synergy sticks until I broke two in one game. At almost $200 a pop that became way too expensive to replace.

What happened to the old school ones that I used to heat up and replace the blade? They were also good for clubbing seals.

Wonder why?
- dbell646

Not sure why with Warrior, but I know Sher-Wood tends to use a lot more fibreglass in their sticks.

Corsi - where Craig Adams gets punished for blocking a shot.

Fenwick - where Beau Bennett is a more effective possession player than Malkin or Crosby this year.

Usage - where zone starts and QoC find meaning despite a coach who doesn't line match or seem to care who puts out there after an icing and a commercial break.

Meanwhile, Crosby is on an 82 point pace, Malkin is on an 80 point pace, and Malkin has scored one power play goal in his last 22 games.

But they're both just fine.
- hardnosed

Yeah, Crosby and Malkin are terrible. They only rank 1st and 5th in points per game. When are they going to start being two of the best players in the world? Guess this team will have to keep leaning on the bottom 6 until they improve.

The high salaries being expended on a limited number of players should reinforce discretionary spending on depth players. Every team needs high salary players to play well to succeed. That doesn't negate the discretionary spending argument in the least as depth roles are important. And none more important than the 3C where the Pens are paying $3.3 million for 4th line results. The team could replace him internally or with an acquisition and very likely produce greater results for certainly less money. The Pens are getting their money's worth out of Crosby, Malkin, and Letang (Fleury as well currently). They are not out of Sutter. That is the problem.
- jfkst1

What is Sutter worth then...monetarily...2M?

Sutter is a scapegoat