Absolutely but when it happens to your team it shouldn't come as a shock and your response shouldn't be outrage if you're hoping your own players are doing exactly what you condemn.
- Cptmjl

I wouldn't complain one bit, never do. Sid's hit at the winter classic was a perfect example, i had no issue what so ever; same with Rinaldo on Tanger.

The only reason I mentioned Johnny B on Geno was to counter point you. I had no issue with that play.

I practice what I preach, its the law of the land; Matt Cooke is my second favorite hockey player of all time, following only Matthew Barnaby.

But this is why we need you, Bullie needs you, I need you...
- Ben37

srsly, the most respected posters' militia can only accomplish so much

Obama is coming for them
- dbell646

I really can't believe how you guys actually deal with this sort of thing down there.

I wouldn't complain one bit, never do. Sid's hit at the winter classic was a perfect example, i had no issue what so ever; same with Rinaldo on Tanger.

The only reason I mentioned Johnny B on Geno was to counter point you. I had no issue with that play.

I practice what I preach, its the law of the land; Matt Cooke is my second favorite hockey player of all time, following only Matthew Barnaby.
- nbartley9

Hey if that's what you like and you're consistent to each their own i guess. I didn't get that impression from you initially maybe it was because of the Boychuck "incident".

I really can't believe how you guys actually deal with this sort of thing down there.
- BINGO!

Obama? It's not fun

I really can't believe how you guys actually deal with this sort of thing down there.
- BINGO!

Way cheaper beer. Actually very smart...

Hey if that's what you like and you're consistent to each their own i guess. I didn't get that impression from you initially maybe it was because of the Boychuck "incident".
- Cptmjl

No that day i was just trying to play devils advocate with you, I love dirty play no matter who perpetrates it. That sounded creepy, o well; its exactly what i wanted to say haha.

Way cheaper beer. Actually very smart...
- canadianpenfan

Oh I know it.

I really can't believe how you guys actually deal with this sort of thing down there.
- BINGO!

Drugs and Booze

Winnik is statistically a better all around player. His shot supp. is better than Sutter, meaning he controls the play more often than the opposition when he is on the ice. That is pretty important. He has been a part of 20 Toronto goals, all at even strength. He is a much, much cheaper option than Sutter, freeing up over 2.5 million, which is enough to add in a player like Bergenheim or Tlusty.
Now you have a third line center with a better possession game, more responsible with the puck, and you added enough cap space to bring in yet another scoring depth forward in Tlusty or Bergenheim.
That is how Winnik helps solve the problem. You get actual value for your dollar.
- usethe1-2-2

Word was the Pens made an offer for Winnik but Toronto said no...was probably for Goc

Statistically both Sutter and Winnik are similar...with Sutter taking a lot more faceoffs and having a higher win percentage (only over 50% on the pens among current centers by the way).

So you propose the Pens trade sutter for him?

While some fans would say trade them straight up... I think there's evidence that Sutter could get more than Winnik in a trade. Sutter has a higher per game point total in his career and he is 4 years younger than Winnik.

Winnik is statistically a better all around player. His shot supp. is better than Sutter, meaning he controls the play more often than the opposition when he is on the ice.

- usethe1-2-2

It doesn't mean that at all even if it was true. I don't buy into any of this meaningless fancy stats junk, but if it's going to be used it should at least support the argument, and in this case it doesn't.

Winnik has 34 more "Fenwick Against" events on the year than Sutter. Even if Fenwick had anything to do with "shot suppression, he's apparently worse at it than Sutter, not better.

Overall, he's .3% better in terms of Fenwick for. That's insignificant next to the fact that Sutter has 7 more goals and 40 more shots (you know, on the net, unblocked, the ones that matter).

Then to bring in the most ludicrous advanced stat of all, Sutter's "usage" is more difficult than Winnik's. Worse teammates, harder QoC. Not by much, but apparently that matters when judging other players, but not Sutter.

It doesn't mean that at all even if it was true. I don't buy into any of this meaningless fancy stats junk, but if it's going to be used it should at least support the argument, and in this case it doesn't.

Winnik has 34 more "Fenwick Against" events on the year than Sutter. Even if Fenwick had anything to do with "shot suppression, he's apparently worse at it than Sutter, not better.

Overall, he's .3% better in terms of Fenwick for. That's insignificant next to the fact that Sutter has 7 more goals and 40 more shots (you know, on the net, unblocked, the ones that matter).

Then to bring in the most ludicrous advanced stat of all, Sutter's "usage" is more difficult than Winnik's. Worse teammates, harder QoC. Not by much, but apparently that matters when judging other players, but not Sutter.
- hardnosed

So you say these advanced stats are garbage, but then you use them in your argument for why Winnik is worse than Sutter? Which is it, are they garbage or are they usefull?

Harrington down to WBS. Probably due to Comeau being back. Need to clear some room for him.

Edit: also Ehrhoff skated this morning.

Word was the Pens made an offer for Winnik but Toronto said no...was probably for Goc

Statistically both Sutter and Winnik are similar...with Sutter taking a lot more faceoffs and having a higher win percentage (only over 50% on the pens among current centers by the way).

So you propose the Pens trade sutter for him?

While some fans would say trade them straight up... I think there's evidence that Sutter could get more than Winnik in a trade. Sutter has a higher per game point total in his career and he is 4 years younger than Winnik.
- icedog97

Which is why I proposed Sutter for Winnik + a 2nd

Way cheaper beer. Actually very smart...
- canadianpenfan

good time to come into the pens chat, beer is in the first post i read

Harrington down to WBS. Probably due to Comeau being back. Need to clear some room for him.

Edit: also Ehrhoff skated this morning.
- znagle

I would think that this would be a good sign Ehrhoff is close. Either that or does WBS have a game tonight or tomorrow? They may just want to get Harrington into a game if they don't plan on playing him Wednesday. If Ehrhoff isn't available Wednesday you would think they will have another D-man ready in case someone gets ill or tweaks something before the game on Wednesday.

good time to come into the pens chat, beer is in the first post i read
- Lucas Neilson

Go back a page strip clubs are also mentioned

I would think that this would be a good sign Ehrhoff is close. Either that or does WBS have a game tonight or tomorrow? They may just want to get Harrington into a game if they don't plan on playing him Wednesday. If Ehrhoff isn't available Wednesday you would think they will have another D-man ready in case someone gets ill or tweaks something before the game on Wednesday.
- PensFan1103

Yeah Hoff was just a test to see how he feels. Harrington being sent down is to clear cap for Comeau. Looks like Pouliot is here to stay for a while

Beer is good.

I prefer a good rye whiskey or bourbon. Old Overholt is the best bottom shelf whiskey on the planet. Smooth and tasty and only 16 bucks a bottle, are you kidding me?

I can also get excited about a great cheap wine.

Yeah Hoff was just a test to see how he feels. Harrington being sent down is to clear cap for Comeau. Looks like Pouliot is here to stay for a while
- znagle

I guess what I am saying though is that no way do the Pens go into Wednesdays warmups with only 6 d-men, which with Harrington going down and Hoff presumably still out is all they have. So either the Dr.'s felt good with Ehrhoff after his skate this morning, or Harrington or Dumoulin is coming back up on Wednesday and Sill or Arcobello are out of here.

It doesn't mean that at all even if it was true. I don't buy into any of this meaningless fancy stats junk.
- hardnosed

And I don't believe in the meaningless outdated narratives.
The fact is, Winnik has been playing for a really bad team and put up stats that are equal to a guy who has spent 20 games playing with a top 5 nhl player and on a much better team. His lesser cap hit, by more than 2million, allows you to add ANOTHER piece to the bottom six. Thus, pushing out poor players like Sill and adams.

Actual quote from Dee Karl's Isles blog:

"Also called up from Bport was HARRY ZOLNIERCZYK. WHO? Yeah, I had never heard that name before this afternoon."

Go back a page strip clubs are also mentioned
- dbell646

they tend to go hand in hand from time to time

Beer is good.

I prefer a good rye whiskey or bourbon. Old Overholt is the best bottom shelf whiskey on the planet. Smooth and tasty and only 16 bucks a bottle, are you kidding me?

I can also get excited about a great cheap wine.

- powerhouse

have you ever tried "the kraken" rum?

Harrington down to WBS. Probably due to Comeau being back. Need to clear some room for him.

Edit: also Ehrhoff skated this morning.
- znagle

Looks like he's only going to be here for one year. I hope they don't even consider given him that.

http://insidepittsburghsp...an-ehrhoffs-future/71002/