What do you think of him as a coach?
How good of a coach do you think he was and don't use google either.
Just answer the question, please.
- BuffaloHardHat

I have no thoughts.

I love Kane, but tell me how he's so much better?
- stashu

More playoff experience, higher career ppg, more pts/60, better playmaker, makes others around him better on a very consistent basis (more than Kessel), Conn Smythe winner. And he's versatile.

yeah, he plays for Chicago. But he does damn well without Toews too.

To be fair, I said "better" not "so much better" because I don't think that's the case.

There. That's why.
- TheSabresTaco

If Toronto offered me Kessel for a first that isn't the actual Buffalo Sabres first (i.e. the other one Winnipeg doesn't get), I'd seriously consider it. The reality is, however, Toronto is going to get more than that from somebody, should they decide to move him. That is why I said it's a combination of the contract and the required return which keeps me disinterested.

I have no thoughts.

- ImThatGuy

I feel like this place can be a never ending spiral.

I have no thoughts.

- ImThatGuy

Okay, I figured.

If Toronto offered me Kessel for a first that isn't the actual Buffalo Sabres first (i.e. the other one Winnipeg doesn't get), I'd seriously consider it. The reality is, however, Toronto is going to get more than that from somebody, should they decide to move him. That is why I said it's a combination of the contract and the required return which keeps me disinterested.
- buffalofan19

Exactly along the lines of what I said before. If, hypothetically, he was offered on the cheap, I would take him. I don't like his contract, but he's a special player in this league.

Agree. I think it was an overpayment
- sbroads24

I don't. We gave up players who were dithering here in our system and on our team, save maybe Lemieux, and got two solid, tough, young players you win with. You got one who is going to be a difference maker on nightly basis in Kane and a defenseman who plays the game right and who will improve many components of their game. Just my opinion.

More playoff experience, higher career ppg, more pts/60, better playmaker, makes others around him better on a very consistent basis (more than Kessel), Conn Smythe winner. And he's versatile.

yeah, he plays for Chicago. But he does damn well without Toews too.

To be fair, I said "better" not "so much better" because I don't think that's the case.
- TheSabresTaco

Two points were about playoffs, and Kessel plays for Toronto, so that's a bit unfair. Chicago is much better than most teams, and Kane has much better linemates than Kessel.

.974 PPG for Kane
.788 for Kessel - obviously in Kane's favor, but Kessel had 2 crap years to start his career in Boston

Last 7 seasons (since Kessel became good): .898 to .990 - much closer

Just not sure that warrants a bigger desire to have Kane than Kessel, at 2.5M more per season for I think 1 additional year (might be 2), so their contracts end when they're the same age.

Oh well, jsut having a fun debate.

Two points were about playoffs, and Kessel plays for Toronto, so that's a bit unfair. Chicago is much better than most teams, and Kane has much better linemates than Kessel.

.974 PPG for Kane
.788 for Kessel - obviously in Kane's favor, but Kessel had 2 crap years to start his career in Boston

Last 7 seasons (since Kessel became good): .898 to .990 - much closer

Just not sure that warrants a bigger desire to have Kane than Kessel, at 2.5M more per season for I think 1 additional year (might be 2), so their contracts end when they're the same age.

Oh well, jsut having a fun debate.
- stashu

12 years from now they will be talking about Kessel going into the HOF

I just went there

Exactly along the lines of what I said before. If, hypothetically, he was offered on the cheap, I would take him. I don't like his contract, but he's a special player in this league.
- TheSabresTaco

Again special players in this league get paid like special players should...

I don't see the issue.

When it comes down to it and resigning the likes of McEichel, Reinhart, Risto down the road you deal with it then.

Chicago has 2 cups with contracts like Sharp, Toews, Kane, and Hossa.

You can make it work.

Two points were about playoffs, and Kessel plays for Toronto, so that's a bit unfair. Chicago is much better than most teams, and Kane has much better linemates than Kessel.

.974 PPG for Kane
.788 for Kessel - obviously in Kane's favor, but Kessel had 2 crap years to start his career in Boston

Last 7 seasons (since Kessel became good): .898 to .990 - much closer

Just not sure that warrants a bigger desire to have Kane than Kessel, at 2.5M more per season for I think 1 additional year (might be 2), so their contracts end when they're the same age.

Oh well, jsut having a fun debate.
- stashu

What are their respective punch people in the face factor?

Again special players in this league get paid like special players should...

I don't see the issue.

When it comes down to it and resigning the likes of McEichel, Reinhart, Risto down the road you deal with it then.

Chicago has 2 cups with contracts like Sharp, Toews, Kane, and Hossa.

You can make it work.
- Stripes77

What does this top 6 look like:

Kane-McEichel-Kessel
Moulson-Reinhart- Ennis


Talk about putting two young centers in a position to have instant success.

This trade and the Fasching trade confirms to me that Murray has a "list" of guys that he really wants on his team, and he's willing to pay just about any price to get one of them, and isn't too worried about whether it's too much. Obviously, there's a reasonable "cap" to that line of thinking (i.e. he's not going to trade an entire year's worth of draft picks for a player), but he definitely seems more focused on what he's getting more than what he's giving up. Darcy Regier seemed to be the opposite.

What is yet to be determined is ultimately whether that leads to success or failure.
- buffalofan19

I prefer that you dont "settle" for a player due to the cost to get him. Get who you want and move forward with a team you would be happy to represent you as you may get fired if things go wrong / bad.

Two points were about playoffs, and Kessel plays for Toronto, so that's a bit unfair. Chicago is much better than most teams, and Kane has much better linemates than Kessel.

.974 PPG for Kane
.788 for Kessel - obviously in Kane's favor, but Kessel had 2 crap years to start his career in Boston

Last 7 seasons (since Kessel became good): .898 to .990 - much closer

Just not sure that warrants a bigger desire to have Kane than Kessel, at 2.5M more per season for I think 1 additional year (might be 2), so their contracts end when they're the same age.

Oh well, jsut having a fun debate.
- stashu

Oh I understand. The basis of these threads is for debate. Don't get me wrong, I would like both of them. What I would have to give up combined with the cap hit, I would just strongly be against it and see if we could draft a guy like that this or next year. Again there's a myriad of possibilities on how to obtain a top winger or player for that matter.. just cost vs benefit, I don't know. If I was throwing all my chips in, I'd go after Hall.

Seguin was sold for scraps. We can be that team some day, I hope.

I don't. We gave up players who were dithering here in our system and on our team, save maybe Lemieux, and got two solid, tough, young players you win with. You got one who is going to be a difference maker on nightly basis in Kane and a defenseman who plays the game right and who will improve many components of their game. Just my opinion.
- GilPerreault11

Anyone that uses the word dither gets

Two points were about playoffs, and Kessel plays for Toronto, so that's a bit unfair. Chicago is much better than most teams, and Kane has much better linemates than Kessel.

.974 PPG for Kane
.788 for Kessel - obviously in Kane's favor, but Kessel had 2 crap years to start his career in Boston

Last 7 seasons (since Kessel became good): .898 to .990 - much closer

Just not sure that warrants a bigger desire to have Kane than Kessel, at 2.5M more per season for I think 1 additional year (might be 2), so their contracts end when they're the same age.

Oh well, jsut having a fun debate.
- stashu

If you break it down to the last 4 years (1 of which Chicago won a cup)

Player A: 268 games played 261 points 115 goals
Player B: 253 games played 252 points 102 goals

pretty similar don't ya think???

What does this top 6 look like:

Kane-McEichel-Kessel
Moulson-Reinhart- Ennis


Talk about putting two young centers in a position to have instant success.
- ImThatGuy

It would probably be a defensive nightmare as well (which I'm okay with for now).

It would probably be a defensive nightmare as well (which I'm okay with for now).


- buffalofan19

throw foligno and girgens out on the third line and it's 60 minutes of hell

Uh oh. I'm in the minority today. Better go find some gifs.

It would probably be a defensive nightmare as well (which I'm okay with for now).


- buffalofan19

Jokes aside, a few years from now, there's some pretty responsible 2 way guys there in the top 6. Truthfully, I don't think that would be too bad!

Uh oh. I'm in the minority today. Better go find some gifs.
- TheSabresTaco

racist

What does this top 6 look like:

Kane-McEichel-Kessel
Moulson-Reinhart- Ennis


Talk about putting two young centers in a position to have instant success.
- ImThatGuy

That top 6 looks impressive...the top line looks really freaking fast

You know what they say the best defense is a good offense

Darren Dreger ‏@DarrenDreger 3m3 minutes ago
Reviewing Kessel's contract details. Scheduled to be paid a $4 mil bonus on July 1. Total earnings for 2014-15....$10 million.

That solidifies it - shoot to get him on draft day!!!

Darren Dreger ‏@DarrenDreger 3m3 minutes ago
Reviewing Kessel's contract details. Scheduled to be paid a $4 mil bonus on July 1. Total earnings for 2014-15....$10 million.

That solidifies it - shoot to get him on draft day!!!
- stashu

Only if Toronto "eats" (or makes the fat kid "eat") some of that bonus.

Darren Dreger ‏@DarrenDreger 3m3 minutes ago
Reviewing Kessel's contract details. Scheduled to be paid a $4 mil bonus on July 1. Total earnings for 2014-15....$10 million.

That solidifies it - shoot to get him on draft day!!!
- stashu

It's not like MLSE doesn't have the money but yes the trade is the time to do it after we draft McEichel of course