Why are we all worried about what one of the 50 coyotes fans says anyways? Let's be real here lol

Sorry dude, you're opinion is only as valid as you are informed. So, for instance, Arcade Fire's Funeral, released in 2005 now has a decade of being considered one of the greatest albums of all time.

And sorry, but anyone questioning the Vampire Weekend doesn't have the chops to talk music. You might not like them, but if you are informed enough to talk about the most important acts of the decade, you have to know them and acknowledge their influence and importance.

Or you can just discredit 50+ years of music critiquing, like you seem to be trying to do.
- James_Tanner

And how many instruments do you play to be able to justify such a hardline stance? Or are you simply taking another individuals word for it?

But there's the issue; when discussing "importance" and as you brought up later "influence", one HAS to consider album sales. By the very definition of the word "influence", it needs to have affected a vast number of people. Again, I was willing to give you Arcade Fire's influence, but I'll be damned if Vampire Weekend or St. Vincent makes any list over an Eminem when comparing influence.

If you want to discuss musical merit then "importance" and "influence" are far from the ideal words to use.
- MaximumBone

.....and what is musical merit? Technical Prowress? Okay then Rush is the greatest Rock Band that ever lived! The ability to impact people's emotions? That's what music is designed to do, so how do you measure that impact?

Why are we all worried about what one of the 50 coyotes fans says anyways? Let's be real here lol
- predfan82

I wipe my ass with Tanners opinion but I still like to call him out on his malarkey. Doesn't matter, he is done with this discussion.

.....and what is musical merit? Technical Prowress? Okay then Rush is the greatest Rock Band that ever lived! The ability to impact people's emotions? That's what music is designed to do, so how do you measure that impact?
- Jeropotato

And there's where all arguments of this nature surrounding music fall apart. Everyone is affected by different types of music and in different ways. Guitar solos are a perfect example of the divide that will inevitable skew any debate on musical merit as it's so much about preference. I for one get eargasms from a wide variety of musics. Anything from Queen's 'Don't Stop Me Now' to Hoodie Allen's 'People Keep Talking' to Avenged Sevenfold's 'Hail To The King' to Pendulum's 'The Island' to the Lord of the Rings soundtrack to Lana Del Rey's 'Young And Beautiful'.

My point is there's no ways to quantify what's "influential" and "important" that will account for everybody (with the exception of the Lord of the Rings soundtrack).

The more I read back, the more I think he was discussing musical merit which I'm even more committed to contesting as Vampire Weekend is far below a wide array of others.

I'm not sure you can really call Blink 182 a product of the 21st century as they were all but washed up by like 2003. Rise Against is great, but is pretty close to a modern day copy of Bad Religion. The rest of your mentions (especially Eminem) are pretty spot on, though I might add a few.
- Sandus

Definitely not a product, but incredibly influential to my era's youth. I would've included Green Day ahead of them as they were likely more appealing en masse, but I gave Blink the inclusion on being first (if I'm recalling correctly).

My inclusion of Rise Against was more to explore variety in the type of influence music can have. I wouldn't have included them if it weren't for their consistent admirable messages and, being honest, having written two of my favourite albums of all time (Sufferer and the Witness and Siren Songs of a Counter Culture).

Double post.

And there's where all arguments of this nature surrounding music fall apart. Everyone is affected by different types of music and in different ways. Guitar solos are a perfect example of the divide that will inevitable skew any debate on musical merit as it's so much about preference. I for one get eargasms from a wide variety of musics. Anything from Queen's 'Don't Stop Me Now' to Hoodie Allen's 'People Keep Talking' to Avenged Sevenfold's 'Hail To The King' to Pendulum's 'The Island' to the Lord of the Rings soundtrack to Lana Del Rey's 'Young And Beautiful'.

My point is there's no ways to quantify what's "influential" and "important" that will account for everybody (with the exception of the Lord of the Rings soundtrack).

The more I read back, the more I think he was discussing musical merit which I'm even more committed to contesting as Vampire Weekend is far below a wide array of others.
- MaximumBone

The beauty about all forms of Art, whether it be music, writing, Painting, sculpted, filmed, ect is that if we all take the time to absorb it we have the opportunity to say/think/feel that it's "Amazing", "Meh",or " a real piece of poop" and nobody is truly wrong or right.

For example.....the Beatles. I have heard 90% of their music and really like Elenore Rigby, Help!, and I wanna hold your hand.....and the rest I would prefer to never hear again. I'm not wrong in how I feel but Inget that a very large number of people feel differently, and that can't be fixed.

The beauty about all forms of Art, whether it be music, writing, Painting, sculpted, filmed, ect is that if we all take the time to absorb it we have the opportunity to say/think/feel that it's "Amazing", "Meh",or " a real piece of poop" and nobody is truly wrong or right.

For example.....the Beatles. I have heard 90% of their music and really like Elenore Rigby, Help!, and I wanna hold your hand.....and the rest I would prefer to never hear again. I'm not wrong in how I feel but Inget that a very large number of people feel differently, and that can't be fixed.
- Jeropotato

I've said it once, and I'll say it again: The Beatles were essentially the One Direction of their time. The differences? The Beatles learned to play their instruments and have been around long enough that we know they transitioned into writing more meaningful and culturally significant songs. But listen to almost any of their early hits and tell me I couldn't write those in my goddam sleep. Lyrically; it was drivel. Instrumentally; it was seriously lacking depth.

I've said it once, and I'll say it again: The Beatles were essentially the One Direction of their time. The differences? The Beatles learned to play their instruments and have been around long enough that we know they transitioned into writing more meaningful and culturally significant songs. But listen to almost any of their early hits and tell me I couldn't write those in my goddam sleep. Lyrically; it was drivel. Instrumentally; it was seriously lacking depth.
- MaximumBone

Yeah, they've been around an awful long time and a lot of people really like them......I'm just not sure why. When I hear them it does vey little for me.

Yeah, they've been around an awful long time and a lot of people really like them......I'm just not sure why. When I hear them it does vey little for me.
- Jeropotato

'Yellow Submarine' embodies everything I hate about their early music Such garbage that I'm amazed it doesn't get lambasted more. I guess it did come out like 50 years ago, though, so I should assume the outrage has died down by now.

'Yellow Submarine' embodies everything I hate about their early music Such garbage that I'm amazed it doesn't get lambasted more. I guess it did come out like 50 years ago, though, so I should assume the outrage has died down by now.
- MaximumBone

Lol....for sure....and there was so much amazing underground music around that time that I would rather hear....

The beauty about all forms of Art, whether it be music, writing, Painting, sculpted, filmed, ect is that if we all take the time to absorb it we have the opportunity to say/think/feel that it's "Amazing", "Meh",or " a real piece of poop" and nobody is truly wrong or right.

For example.....the Beatles. I have heard 90% of their music and really like Elenore Rigby, Help!, and I wanna hold your hand.....and the rest I would prefer to never hear again. I'm not wrong in how I feel but Inget that a very large number of people feel differently, and that can't be fixed.
- Jeropotato

Exactly. It's all subjective. I would never discredit the Beatles because of the obvious impact they've had on generations of fans all over the world, but honestly I'm not "touched" by much of their music in any way. Obviously there are musicians with more talent than others, but music is more of a feeling you get from it than anything, and everyone is impacted in different ways. I can get goosebumps from listening to most basic, marginally talented at their instruments, gorilla hardcore punk bands out there. While they aren't exactly "ultra-talented," the built-up energy, and raw powerful emotion they wield makes them (to me) a million times better than tons of musician out there that have sold a million more albums. But that's just my opinion. Everyone is looking for something different when it comes to music, and gets inspired from different things, so how can you judge someone else's "taste?"

Right...you basically have been calling people stupid or ignorant who don't agree with you - on multiple topics. Yesterday, you said that Pekka Rinne was overrated because he has a good defense in front of him. Then you went on to call the Preds' Defense overrated. Which is it? As someone who openly lectures others about their incompetence, surely the irony of your own simplistic contradiction about Rinne & the Preds is not lost on you, right?

The crazy thing is, I don't disagree with you about Funeral being in the top 40-50 albums of all time. But that doesn't mean that intelligent, informed people can't disagree about a topic. I'm all for passionate arguments about everything from Hockey to Music. But there is no reason to be dismissive to people who've taken the time to read & comment on your blogs - as if they can't possibly know as much (or more) about a given topic than you. Just because someone doesn't share your view, doesn't mean they are uninformed.
- holycow_75

This is a preposterous accusation. I never said that people who disagree with me are always wrong. It just so happens that in one particular circumstance I said a guy was wrong and that the reason he was wrong was that he didn't know what he was talking about.

I don't know how that translates into everyone who disagrees with me about anything is wrong. But in the once case where a guy tried to tell me that I was wrong and then used commercial success as a measuring stick and then fully dismissed bands he's never heard of then yes, that guy was ignorant.

Exactly. On the topic of music he is completely dismissive of things he doesn't understand or hasn't been exposed to. He thinks he knows it all, but even if he did nothing but listened to 5 new or previously un heard albums a day for the better part of his lifetime he only scratched of what's out there. For the most part he looks to professional critics opinions to validate why he likes a band or album. Music critics reports on music basically follow a formula, and even then it still touches a part of the brain that responds with "like" or " dislike". There is a scientifically proven formula that certain sounds in sequence touch the masses in a favourable way, and this formula in generally used by the top music producers to generate hits.
- Jeropotato

You seem to know an awful lot about what I think and why I think it. I wonder if you know what I think about your opinions, posts and ideas? Here's a clue: I find you annoying, condescending and usually misinformed. I also find you entertaining, interesting and occasionally worth talking to. But you make way too many assumptions and spend the majority of your time just putting people down.

But there's the issue; when discussing "importance" and as you brought up later "influence", one HAS to consider album sales. By the very nature of the word "influence", it needs to have affected a vast number of people. Again, I was willing to give you Arcade Fire's influence, but I'll be damned if Vampire Weekend or St. Vincent makes any list over an Eminem when comparing influence.

If you want to discuss musical merit then "importance" and "influence" are far from the ideal words to use.
- MaximumBone

Eminem hasn't been critically relevant since 2002. Just saying.

They weren't spot-on at all. This guy is mixing up commercial success with artistic success. Eminem is like a rapping Foo-Fighter. He has all the artistic credibility of Miley Cyrus.
- James_Tanner

This is pure insanity.

Eminem: 15 Grammys, 1 Oscar
Drake and Arcade Fire combined: 3 Grammys

Eminem redefined rap in a huge way, and his influence can be heard everywhere. If there was a rap Mt. Rushmore, it would be Dre, Snoop, Biggy, Tupac, and Eminem. Drake would be a tour guide at the base of the mountain. (And I actually like Drake a lot)

And how many instruments do you play to be able to justify such a hardline stance? Or are you simply taking another individuals word for it?
- MaximumBone

I just read and listen to a lot of music. My stance isn't "hardline" on anything. I am just an appreciator of art. But you must on some level understand that the collective world of music critics do matter - even if its just to other music geeks.

You can like whatever you like, but you there can still be factual statements even though we are talking about a subjective medium. For instance, even if you like Maroon 5, they suck. And even if you don't like Vampire Weekend, they are still considered pretty important. By who and why? Those are valid questions.

I also play quite a few instruments, not that that matters or has any bearing on anything.

Exactly. It's all subjective. I would never discredit the Beatles because of the obvious impact they've had on generations of fans all over the world, but honestly I'm not "touched" by much of their music in any way. Obviously there are musicians with more talent than others, but music is more of a feeling you get from it than anything, and everyone is impacted in different ways. I can get goosebumps from listening to most basic, marginally talented at their instruments, gorilla hardcore punk bands out there. While they aren't exactly "ultra-talented," the built-up energy, and raw powerful emotion they wield makes them (to me) a million times better than tons of musician out there that have sold a million more albums. But that's just my opinion. Everyone is looking for something different when it comes to music, and gets inspired from different things, so how can you judge someone else's "taste?"
- gypsypunk01

100% Bubba.....you said it perfectly.

I've said it once, and I'll say it again: The Beatles were essentially the One Direction of their time. The differences? The Beatles learned to play their instruments and have been around long enough that we know they transitioned into writing more meaningful and culturally significant songs. But listen to almost any of their early hits and tell me I couldn't write those in my goddam sleep. Lyrically; it was drivel. Instrumentally; it was seriously lacking depth.
- MaximumBone

OK sure. Ticket to Ride, Eight Days a Week, HELP, Paperback Writer.......you could write those in your sleep. They were just the One Direction of their time. Thank you for writing that. I know now how concerned I have to be about the things you're writing and saying about me.

Just a truly excellent post on every possible level.

This is pure insanity.

Eminem: 15 Grammys, 1 Oscar
Drake and Arcade Fire combined: 3 Grammys

Eminem redefined rap in a huge way, and his influence can be heard everywhere. If there was a rap Mt. Rushmore, it would be Dre, Snoop, Biggy, Tupac, and Eminem. Drake would be a tour guide at the base of the mountain. (And I actually like Drake a lot)
- Sandus

First of all, the Grammys are a joke, much like the NHL awards they are completely meaningless.

Again, I agree Eminem was once a great artist. His first two records and parts of his third one are very good. After that he basically is pure garbage, and I say that as a fan of his. I can't argue with his influence, but I don't think anyone except a superfan can really argue that he has made a good album since the early 2000.

You seem to know an awful lot about what I think and why I think it. I wonder if you know what I think about your opinions, posts and ideas? Here's a clue: I find you annoying, condescending and usually misinformed. I also find you entertaining, interesting and occasionally worth talking to. But you make way too many assumptions and spend the majority of your time just putting people down.
- James_Tanner

Gee.....I wonder how I know what you think.....might it have to do with the fact that you blog about it? James , you can call me whatever you want, but do you have any idea how arrogant you sound when you write about your opinions? Give me a break, Jabroni, you are welcome to your opinion, but you express it in such a way that you feel yours is more than just an opinion, which it absolutely is not.

OK sure. Ticket to Ride, Eight Days a Week, HELP, Paperback Writer.......you could write those in your sleep. They were just the One Direction of their time. Thank you for writing that. I know now how concerned I have to be about the things you're writing and saying about me.

Just a truly excellent post on every possible level.
- James_Tanner

You read one hyperbolic sentence and ignored the rest......not surprised you missed the point.

First of all, the Grammys are a joke, much like the NHL awards they are completely meaningless.

Again, I agree Eminem was once a great artist. His first two records and parts of his third one are very good. After that he basically is pure garbage, and I say that as a fan of his. I can't argue with his influence, but I don't think anyone except a superfan can really argue that he has made a good album since the early 2000.
- James_Tanner

.....and nobody can really argue than Beatles have made a good album in well over 40 years.

First of all, the Grammys are a joke, much like the NHL awards they are completely meaningless.

Again, I agree Eminem was once a great artist. His first two records and parts of his third one are very good. After that he basically is pure garbage, and I say that as a fan of his. I can't argue with his influence, but I don't think anyone except a superfan can really argue that he has made a good album since the early 2000.
- James_Tanner

He won an Oscar in 2004 for a song that's still incredibly strong today.

He wrote "Not Afraid" in 2010, which the NHL was actually using in their media package because it was so good.

He literally just won Rap Album of the Year in 2015.

He is still relevant and still good.

But I guess the Grammy awards are just like the NHL awards. Because Rinne is gonna win the Vezina.