I dunno. I guess it's possible that Malkin's just totally lost all accuracy on his shot forever. That just isn't how things usually happen. But i guess it's possible.

Malkin and Crosby are probably past their peaks, but that doesn't mean that they are just going to go straight from what they were to just trash.
- poopmouth

Not at all. But there has to be a reason why they aren't scoring as much. Even last year, Crosby had a revolving door of 3rd/4th liners on his line and was still running away with the points race. To assume they both fell off the face of the Earth forever is absurd. But unless they can identify it, it's not gonna fix itself.

the only solution is to keep sid and malkin and blow the rest up


- Isles_since_6

Agreed, he needs to stop having an opinion on a public forum.
- jmatchett383

I dont care if people have opinions. I have plenty and they usually contradict.

But coming in every day complaining about reading something that nobody is forcing you to read is just plain stupid. If you dont like it, dont read it.

That's what bothers me... You can say the Olympics were a small sample size or that the playoffs are a small sample size, but don't a bunch of small sample sizes turn into a pattern?

He's not driving to the net like he used to. Whether he is unwilling, or unable because guys are hanging on him more, I don't know.

But those quick chip shots that go in from 8 feet out, don't go in from 15 feet out.

He's shooting as a last resort, so it seems like those shots end up being from bad angles or off balance.
- rival22

Last night, Torrey Mitchell threw Claude Giroux on the ice, sat on him and cross checked him. They each got 2 minutes for roughing.

Happens to all teams at times.

I dont care if people have opinions. I have plenty and they usually contradict.

But coming in every day complaining about reading something that nobody is forcing you to read is just plain stupid. If you dont like it, dont read it.
- thickman1178

I think he enjoys the context in general, but not a daily dose of fancy graphs and berating the same player(s).

tune into 970 savran on sports now...feel like this segment with Bourque will be a dandy.

It just seems there's an immense pressure of "cup or bust" mentality from the upper management and fans and I think it's having a white knuckle effect on guys like Crosby & Malkin....especially Crosby! Crosby is trying so hard that it's almost having a reverse affect on him! Again like last year...there doesn't appear to be a very relaxed environment around the organization.

By...magic?
- jmatchett383

I heard they are giving him 10 gallons of water a day and putting him in front of the toilet. If any gets on the floor he has to do more suicide sprints.

Last night, Torrey Mitchell threw Claude Giroux on the ice, sat on him and cross checked him. They each got 2 minutes for roughing.

Happens to all teams at times.
- jmatchett383

My biggest complaint about the NHL. Star players are not treated like star players. I don't pay money to watch 3rd and 4th line plugs devolve the flow of the game into mud.

If 2-3 more goals had trickled in every game, they'd be running away with the President's Trophy.

But they didn't.
- jmatchett383

i know they didn't. So they got a loss.

That's what Ryan was saying about process vs results.

Are you saying that it's pointless to talk about if a team plays well, but loses, or to talk about when a team plays terribly, but lucks into a win?

All that matters is the score and nothing else?

My biggest complaint about the NHL. Star players are not treated like star players. I don't pay money to watch 3rd and 4th line plugs devolve the flow of the game into mud.
- Tiogadog

Then don't pay money.

That's what bothers me... You can say the Olympics were a small sample size or that the playoffs are a small sample size, but don't a bunch of small sample sizes turn into a pattern?

He's not driving to the net like he used to. Whether he is unwilling, or unable because guys are hanging on him more, I don't know.

But those quick chip shots that go in from 8 feet out, don't go in from 15 feet out.

He's shooting as a last resort, so it seems like those shots end up being from bad angles or off balance.
- rival22

Those types of penalties aren't lacking towards us. Last night a CBJ player took a run at Downie, that run could have been called charging, wasn't, Downie pushes the guy off him then gets a punch to the face. PP? Nope Downie is in the box too... What for?

What's especially laughable is the exact same thing happens last game with Downie tossing the punch. Result we're on the PK.

The silver lining is all these non calls are just preparing us for the playoffs where nothing gets called.
- stackthepads

There's no conspiracy against the Penguins. Both the penalties last night were deserved. Downie makes himself as unlikeable as possible by complaining incessantly to the refs so they get tired of it. Kunitz can be effective, but there isn't enough of it on the team. Especially on the 3rd line that should be a shutdown line.

i know they didn't. So they got a loss.

That's what Ryan was saying about process vs results.

Are you saying that it's pointless to talk about if a team plays well, but loses, or to talk about when a team plays terribly, but lucks into a win?

All that matters is the score and nothing else?
- poopmouth

No, it's incredibly vital how you win (in the regular season) as much as it is whether you win or lose. Just stating that, if you play really well for 82 games, but lose them all by a goal, then are you really playing that well?

I think he enjoys the context in general, but not a daily dose of fancy graphs and berating the same player(s).
- jmatchett383

Well that Im on board with. I like to learn new things and see different stats, but the same thing every day is getting repetative. To that point that once I see the first graph I just scroll til there arent any more.

Id love to just see a standard tale of the tape once in a while.

RW, I agree with you that the depth on this team is still not up to par, but it is better than it has been in years past and the difference between this year and years past is that Crosby and Malkin are not producing as much as they did. They may still be putting up dominant numbers possession wise, which is great and yeah I do trust that at the end of the day if you are controlling possession you will win more games than not, but how long of lower production before we accept that Crosby and Malkin are in more than just an unlucky scoring drought, especially Sid?

I have never wanted to get rid of Sid or Malkin, and I still feel that way, but what if that is the wrong decision? The league is clearly not built for dynamic players with generational talent anymore. Those players don't shine through night in and night out anymore, because players have so many more liberties than they had just 2 or 3 years ago. Players are allowed to do almost whatever they want to Star players anymore and the NHL just expects the stars to deal with it. The Pens are not big and physical enough to dish it back out to other teams, so their stars/scorers get their jobs done. But other teams physically dominate Crosby practically every night. Look at the games he has produced in the past month, it's because those teams aren't taking it to him shift after shift (Calgary and Ottawa). Geno is bigger and more physical so it is a little easier for him to overcome, but even he gets thrown off his game at times because of it.

Watching the power play at the end of the game last night, how many times were Hornqvist and Kunitz cross-checked to the ice. It was ridiculous. Everytime a pass went from Letang to Crosby or Malkin all you see in front of the net is one of our guys going down to the ice. I have never noticed that as much as I did last night and lately in other games as well. That was a penalty in years past and no longer is. But I never see that being done by the Pens in front of their net.

All of this adds up to the Pens being too damn soft to play against. The formula is there for teams to beat the Pens. Beat the hell out of Crosby and he won't produce. If Crosby isn't producing you just have to worry about Malkin because the rest of the team isn't going to do much on most nights.
- PensFan1103

Spot on.

There's no conspiracy against the Penguins. Both the penalties last night were deserved. Downie makes himself as unlikeable as possible by complaining incessantly to the refs so they get tired of it. Kunitz can be effective, but there isn't enough of it on the team. Especially on the 3rd line that should be a shutdown line.
- jfkst1

I somewhat disagree. I think ever since Sid "showed up" the refs, they havent been as liberal with the calls for us. Again, its doesnt matter when your PP cant score, but some of the nonsense that goes on that other teams arent called for is just amazing.

And yes, I do watch other games and see the same thing. I just dont have my "homer" glasses on for those games. And I always reserve the right to be a hypocrite.

This... I do not want either traded. Trading either one would be a mistake. But as a fan, you do have the right to want stars to produce something more than possession numbers. Actual wins and points would be a nice addition to the process.

This debate to me is indicative of the great analytic divide in modern hockey. Some fans and writers feel that with analytics everything can be managed and predicted. While others shun analytics to only rely on grit, drive, and energy. Absolutism in either direction to me is foolhardy. I am just not sure i would label you stupid and irrelevant for espousing either opinion. Middle path my friends, middle path.

It also just sucks to see your favorite team lose at such a rate.
- Tiogadog

This is the most proper thing I've ever read anyone write about sports. You should work for BBC Sports

I somewhat disagree. I think ever since Sid "showed up" the refs, they havent been as liberal with the calls for us. Again, its doesnt matter when your PP cant score, but some of the nonsense that goes on that other teams arent called for is just amazing.

And yes, I do watch other games and see the same thing. I just dont have my "homer" glasses on for those games. And I always reserve the right to be a hypocrite.
- thickman1178

Refreshing.

No, it's incredibly vital how you win (in the regular season) as much as it is whether you win or lose. Just stating that, if you play really well for 82 games, but lose them all by a goal, then are you really playing that well?
- jmatchett383

my original point was just that a lot of the specific things that had been complained about recently did really look like they took a step in the right direction last night. It's just a shame another goal wouldn't have snuck in somehow because it totally would have changed the fanbase's attitude today. They played well enough to win (or at the very least started to show signs of life on the Powerplay, and sid started to show some pep in his step), and that's being ignored by many i think.

My biggest complaint about the NHL. Star players are not treated like star players. I don't pay money to watch 3rd and 4th line plugs devolve the flow of the game into mud.
- Tiogadog

Completely agree... I want to see guys like Crosby, Kane, Giroux, or whomever be able to make a play without some slug hacking, holding and whacking them.

No one plays $100 for a ticket to watch a 3rd liner hanging on a skilled player.

Even the crap away from the puck. Hornqvist got yanked down by his neck after the whistleast night right in front of the referee, and it's accepted.

After Bennett's slash last night, Bob Errey said it perfectly, Don't whack the stick, whack his hands, you probably won't get a penalty. That is sad.

In the playoffs you get calls for breaking a stick, puck over the glass, and blatant high sticks.Literally nothing else gets called.

my original point was just that a lot of the specific things that had been complained about recently did really look like they took a step in the right direction last night. It's just a shame another goal wouldn't have snuck in somehow because it totally would have changed the fanbase's attitude today. They played well enough to win (or at the very least started to show signs of life on the Powerplay, and sid started to show some pep in his step), and that's being ignored by many i think.
- poopmouth

I know, I was just being difficult.

The thing is, this Penguins team isn't supposed to "play well enough to win." they're supposed to win. I know you can't do it every night, and yes, the method is important. But not getting 2 points last night should not be leave room for moral victories.

Thank you. That crosby stat is meaningless when you put context to it.

What bothers me is the the blind passes. Sid's had so many blind passes get intercepted it's making me physically ill.
- YouMeAndDupuis9

We have a winner!!!

If he could drop this bullpoop and actually shoot some more I'd have zero problem with his play. I don't think he looks disinterested his problem is to pass, blindly pass, or try to pass to a guy on the other side of two opposing players at top speed. There is nothing simple to his game anymore. Ryan cannot deny he gets too cute with the puck instead of making the simple play. It's Letang's passing from the other year level of frustration, and the only thing that's going to fix it is Crosby himself.

Completely agree... I want to see guys like Crosby, Kane, Giroux, or whomever be able to make a play without some slug hacking, holding and whacking them.

No one plays $100 for a ticket to watch a 3rd liner hanging on a skilled player.

Even the crap away from the puck. Hornqvist got yanked down by his neck after the whistleast night right in front of the referee, and it's accepted.

After Bennett's slash last night, Bob Errey said it perfectly, Don't whack the stick, whack his hands, you probably won't get a penalty. That is sad.

In the playoffs you get calls for breaking a stick, puck over the glass, and blatant high sticks.Literally nothing else gets called.
- rival22

The biggest controllable impediment to the NHL becoming more mainstream, is the lack of consistency in officiating. The NFL, for all it's officiating faults, at least tries to keep the game consistent whether it be the first snap in preseason or the last play in the SB. The NHL, directly violates any consistency and it is frustrating as a fan.

I know, I was just being difficult.

The thing is, this Penguins team isn't supposed to "play well enough to win." they're supposed to win. I know you can't do it every night, and yes, the method is important. But not getting 2 points last night should not be leave room for moral victories.
- jmatchett383

i feel better now that i saw Crosby fly again for the first time in forever. I feel better that they at least attempted some shots on the PP even though they didn't all hit the net. These were specific things that we've been complaining about recently.

I'm more optimistic today than i was yesterday. it's fine if not everyone agrees