While I agree with RW that paying like $7mil for Sutter and Scuds really hurts, you still can't not blame 87 for his terrible passes and 71 for his stupid turnover in the 1st. Its just careless play.

87 is still the highest cap hit to win a cup in the cap era. Pens now have 71 making more than him. Just seems to me its difficult to have 4 solid lines that way.

No idea what Sutter's value is but:

Sutter-Bergenheim
BB+D prospect -Berglund

Potential Lines:

39-87-72
14-71-17
Berg-Berglund-Spaling
Adams-Max-Downie

I agree that Lemieux had a great season. Heck, I saw him play that year and it was amazing. But Gretzky 81/82 and 85/86 season are still the best because, as much as Lemieux COULD HAVE put up those numbers, he didn't. No matter the reason's, he didn't.
- jmatchett383

Also don't forget those Oilers teams were like a dream team, like the hockey version of the Heat.

Here's the players the Pens shouldn't trade right now:

Crosby, Malkin, Perron, Hornqvist, Beau Bennett, Letang, Pouliot, Despres. Everyone else is fair game.

Here's the players the Pens shouldn't trade right now:

Crosby, Malkin, Perron, Hornqvist, Beau Bennett, Letang, Pouliot, Despres. Everyone else is fair game.
- Deadstar

Ok, I have JR on speed dial ... the phone is ringing ... I think he has it set to 8 rings before it goes to VM ... hang on

Major problem is still the defense. Bortuzzo and Scuderi on two pairings means if a team can forecheck youre going to be hemmed in more than not. Redundant in their inability to move the puck.
- Deadstar

I also think the defense is the number one problem with this team. Top to bottom it is average at best. I like the direction it is going though. When given the chance Despres and Pouliot have shown they are ready for the NHL. They are only going to improve. We get Maatta back next year and along with Letang that is not a bad top four, it is young and mobile. Ehrhoff has been a bit of a disappointment, I was expecting more from him and losing Martin to free agency will not be nearly as bad as people think. The gain of $9M in salary cap will offset their departures.

Also don't forget those Oilers teams were like a dream team, like the hockey version of the Heat.
- sammy87

People say that a lot, but fail to mention that Penguins team had Lemieux, Jagr, Francis, Mullen, Tocchet, Murphy, and Stevens (pre-coke). That's a dream team in itself that would rival those Oilers teams.

While I agree with RW that paying like $7mil for Sutter and Scuds really hurts, you still can't not blame 87 for his terrible passes and 71 for his stupid turnover in the 1st. Its just careless play.

87 is still the highest cap hit to win a cup in the cap era. Pens now have 71 making more than him. Just seems to me its difficult to have 4 solid lines that way.

No idea what Sutter's value is but:

Sutter-Bergenheim
BB+D prospect -Berglund

Potential Lines:

39-87-72
14-71-17
Berg-Berglund-Spaling
Adams-Max-Downie
- sammy87

Stop hating on BB! We need one home grown winger on a cheap contract damnit!

Really though, I dont understand peoples fascination with shipping out our picks and developing talent for rentals. Just one of the many reasons we would all make horrible GMs I guess.

People say that a lot, but fail to mention that Penguins team had Lemieux, Jagr, Francis, Mullen, Tocchet, Murphy, and Stevens (pre-coke). That's a dream team in itself that would rival those Oilers teams.
- jmatchett383

whoa, that was impressive. I have no idea who could have beaten those guys!

People say that a lot, but fail to mention that Penguins team had Lemieux, Jagr, Francis, Mullen, Tocchet, Murphy, and Stevens (pre-coke). That's a dream team in itself that would rival those Oilers teams.
- jmatchett383

In all fairness, I would guess Stevens was doing coke back then too. Pre-coke arrest is probably more accurate.

Here's the players the Pens shouldn't trade right now:

Crosby, Malkin, Perron, Hornqvist, Beau Bennett, Letang, Pouliot, Despres. Everyone else is fair game.
- Deadstar

Id personally add Kunitz and Downie to that list.

But it would really depend on the return for any given player. Id trade Crosby for the right deal if it came down to it.

People say that a lot, but fail to mention that Penguins team had Lemieux, Jagr, Francis, Mullen, Tocchet, Murphy, and Stevens (pre-coke). That's a dream team in itself that would rival those Oilers teams.
- jmatchett383

Yeah but in a totally different era of gameplay.

whoa, that was impressive. I have no idea who could have beaten those guys!
- Isles_since_6

Stevens dealer?

People say that a lot, but fail to mention that Penguins team had Lemieux, Jagr, Francis, Mullen, Tocchet, Murphy, and Stevens (pre-coke). That's a dream team in itself that would rival those Oilers teams.
- jmatchett383

Yeah they had a 3 year window with all those guys, but the years before were awful, and it wasn't shortly after 93 when they started losing all those greats. It def did not have the run that the 80's Oilers had.

In all fairness, I would guess Stevens was doing coke back then too. Pre-coke arrest is probably more accurate.
- Rawdog9755

I thought it was crack. or did that come later?

Stop hating on BB! We need one home grown winger on a cheap contract damnit!

Really though, I dont understand peoples fascination with shipping out our picks and developing talent for rentals. Just one of the many reasons we would all make horrible GMs I guess.
- thickman1178

Have you ever seen him play? If so what exactly about BB says talent? He is extremely weak on the puck, can't generate anything on his own, 0 physicality to his game. For a 3rd liner there is nothing there. Believe me, I wish the Pens had some internally developed talent, they just don't.

I thought it was crack. or did that come later?
- thickman1178

Im pretty sure you are right. With the way his face got busted up, can only imagine he would have a hard time snorting anything. There were hookers too, but then again there always are.

BB for Saad ... they make about the same, right? And we will have a hometown talent.

Have you ever seen him play? If so what exactly about BB says talent? He is extremely weak on the puck, can't generate anything on his own, 0 physicality to his game. For a 3rd liner there is nothing there. Believe me, I wish the Pens had some internally developed talent, they just don't.
- sammy87

Trading Beau gets you nothing though. His value on his contract with his potential in the trade market you will only get a more expensive player with less upside.

I also think the defense is the number one problem with this team. Top to bottom it is average at best. I like the direction it is going though. When given the chance Despres and Pouliot have shown they are ready for the NHL. They are only going to improve. We get Maatta back next year and along with Letang that is not a bad top four, it is young and mobile. Ehrhoff has been a bit of a disappointment, I was expecting more from him and losing Martin to free agency will not be nearly as bad as people think. The gain of $9M in salary cap will offset their departures.
- Thunderbolt

If you took away a top 4 dman like Maatta from any NHL team, they would have a hole in their defense too though.

Trading Beau gets you nothing though. His value on his contract with his potential in the trade market you will only get a more expensive player with less upside.
- Deadstar

The moveable pieces on this team are, BB, Sutter, Spaling, Martin, Dumo, Harrington, DP, Scuds, Despress. Not gonna move Perron or PH or Kunitz, 71 or 87. Comeau is playing well but not worth much. The bottom 6 is a black hole on this team. If you need to take a dump just wait till either a commercial or when the 3/4 lines are on the ice. Only thing you'll miss is BB and Sutter chasing the puck. I have no idea what their value is, but they bring nothing to this team.

Then someone will say well trade Letang, then what Pay Martin $6mil? Brilliant!

In all fairness, I would guess Stevens was doing coke back then too. Pre-coke arrest is probably more accurate.
- Rawdog9755

Fair enough.

I guess "50-goal Stevens" was more what I was driving at.

I'm more of a left winger fan. John LeClair 4ever!!!
- jmatchett383

The way our pens are playing I would take scary Gary, billy G , Johnny LeClair , mark recchi. over Adams, sill, bennet etc.

The way our pens are playing I would take scary Gary, billy G , Johnny LeClair , mark recchi. over Adams, sill, bennet etc.
- Palmer117

LeClair got pretty fat.

Yeah they had a 3 year window with all those guys, but the years before were awful, and it wasn't shortly after 93 when they started losing all those greats. It def did not have the run that the 80's Oilers had.
- sammy87

No, but just pointing out that a collection of players like that rivals what the 80s Oilers had. Great players are great players in any era.

People say that a lot, but fail to mention that Penguins team had Lemieux, Jagr, Francis, Mullen, Tocchet, Murphy, and Stevens (pre-coke). That's a dream team in itself that would rival those Oilers teams.
- jmatchett383

Don't forget Trottier. And Coffey for one Cup run.