In all fairness, Soft and heartless is the only way to survive a Pittsburgh winter.
- thickman1178

See? It's a perfect match! We should all pitch in and order Oneonta a Stewart jersey in anticipation of his heroic arrival.

I would. I think that while I dont agree with a lot of what you say, you write well and make clear points that seem to be well thought out.
- thickman1178

Thanks bro.

Hell, if we all agreed on everything, this place would truly be boring as hell.

Something must be wrong with the filters at work... all are coming off as 404 webpage errors.
- Guile

You're the google cat so I know you know better

Thanks bro.

Hell, if we all agreed on everything, this place would truly be boring as hell.
- 87_71_11_29

If we agreed on everything, we would all just create graphs and make sweet, sweet love to them.

But thats my usual friday night.

anyone going to beerfest tonight?

There are a lot of people who know a lot about hockey who would argue that blaming the bottom 6 is a stupid argument when you have so much invested in your top 6 and they are not getting the job done.

Pens scored 1 goal last night...1

3 in three games

Isn't the expectation that your top six should get you at least 2 a game?

Isn't the problem really that guys in the top six are NOT playing like top 6 guys night n and night out?

Blame it on Spaling...Sutter...whoever that's not in the top 6...ha...that's a real joke.
- icedog97

I think my expectation is that both Sid and Downie should have picked up Dubinsky right in the slot when he scored the shorthanded rebound goal. Downie was closer to the net; Sid stopped skating. Malkin's line at even strength allowed perhaps 8 high quality scoring chances.

Iron price and all that.

Gretzky was amazing... He thought the game light years beyond his time.

But when I see his 80's stats, all I can picture are goalies like this:




Imagine today's forwards shooting on those guys

Oilers re-signed Klinkhammer ... I wish we kept him and shipped someone else for Perron.

yes but it's all connected , if the bottom six can score that it takes pressure off the top six. the other team is now worried about other lines and the top two lines will have more space and possibly better match ups, it's a TEAM effort and it takes four viable lines to win a cup now.
- Bradlee3

Really...i understand all that.

This is not last year and our bottom six, although not stellar, are not the crap they are made out to be.

We aren't losing games because of them.

Plus...look at the money spent on the top 6...Malkin, Crosby, Kunitz, Hornqvist, Perron...and whoever...32M

Top two d...12.2M

Goalie...5M

Say 50M there total

Those guys better produce.

You got 21M for 10 other guys...and Erhroff eats up 4 alone

A better bottom six is a tricky moving target that changes year to year

You rely on the top 6 and top guys who make the big bucks to be consistent ... and they frankly are not scoring...PERIOD!!!!!

Ok, so Mario's "Hodgkins season" doesn't trump Gretzky's best, what about '88-'89? 199 Points(210 point pace), 79 PP points and 18 SH points with NO supporting cast. Besides Coffey and 2 months of rookies Stevens and Recchi, that team consisted of Brown, Quinn, Errey, Cullen, Cunneyworth, Bourque, Hannan, Loney, Caufield,, Frawley, Callander up front. Not much of a collection there and dare I say that I doubt #99 sniffs 200 points with that team...especially considering Mario as the sole weapon was double and triple covered all season long.
- Pags

My point was that a "what if" wasn't a "what is" w.r.t his 160 points in 199. Not taking anything away from Mario and what he battled, but it doesn't change the fact that he was forced to miss 20 games.

The 199 point season is a much better argument, in my opinion. Still think Gretzky is the best of all time. Had Lemieux stayed healthy (not his fault), I'd probably believe differently.

I know a few of my posts have come off like I am blaming everything on Sid. I'm not. Just sayin he belongs on the Blame List too along with everyone else sans MAF at this point.

I'm rooting hard as hell for the kid and the team. I haven't given up faith. There are tons of things this team is doing well. Could they win the Cup if a few things fall their way and they get some favorable matchups? Yeah I guess so. I just enjoy discussing ways to improve the team.

I just want to see the old 87 back. I don't care what anyone tells me, something is off with him. I want to see him succeed because I think he's a good dude.

I'd love for anyone telling me I'm wrong about him to come back and rub it my face come playoff time. I'd love for Ryan Wilson to say "See, I told you so. All the data said Sid's turnaround was coming." He can take all the credit he wants to. I'll be the first to say you nailed it bro. Congrats.

I just don't think that's gonna happen.

"The people who think Sidney Crosby, Evgeni Malkin, and Kris Letang are the problem don't matter. Don't listen to them. They are stupid, so incredibly stupid." -RW

Ryan, please send me your address so I can mail you a copy of this:



Your content is often compelling and instructive, if you weren't such a jagoff in terms of the condescending, insulting method of your delivery, maybe people might have more respect for your hard work. Just my $.02, but your delivery makes a lot of people want to tune you out, myself included.

I happen to agree the Pens absolutely need better players in the bottom 6 to take the pressure off the stars, *but* to completely absolve 87/71/58 of the blame is incredibly myopic on your part. Here's why: The bottom 6 guys don't play on the powerplay, the STARS DO. This is a team that because of the noted shortcomings in its construction, NEEDS to score powerplay goals to win. You can show all the HERO/Corsi/Fenwick graphs and number you want, and you would be correct in the stance that Crosby and Malkin are driving possession and are playing well at even strength. That's great, but at some point you need to score goals too, and there is a DIRECT correlation to the Penguins success early in the year record-wise and their success on the PP. Since the PP has fallen off the cliff, they have been incredibly mediocre in terms of record. Bottom line is they are playing good hockey 5 on 5 for the most part, and losing on the play of special teams, ESPECIALLY the PP. If the Pens cash in and score a powerplay goal in any of the last 3 games, they likely win ALL 3 and we are talking about how they are turning the corner. This is where your stars are supposed to shine. And by the way, if your powerplay is a threat, it keeps the other teams honest in terms of taking liberties too.

I don't think by any means that the Pens struggles is ALL the fault of the stars, but based on the failure of the PP they have at least a significant amount of culpability and they should not be given a pass.

I guess this stance makes me incredibly stupid. So be it.
- Emperor Filonius

I mean not to mention his "hardwork" is copying and pasting other peoples fancy stats work and explaining them. Now hes calling people with NHL jobs stupid, because its obviously so easy to produce a stanley cup winner. Just listen to the numbers that some guy produces in his moms basement. Got it. However I love arguing about the nature of a fourth line in the NHL so I don't mind reading everyday.

anyone going to beerfest tonight?
- JLT168

Wo ist das bierfest?

I think my expectation is that both Sid and Downie should have picked up Dubinsky right in the slot when he scored the shorthanded rebound goal. Downie was closer to the net; Sid stopped skating. Malkin's line at even strength allowed perhaps 8 high quality scoring chances.

Iron price and all that.
- Johnny Wrath

That shorty was a collection if errors. Comeaus drop pass was terrible (and why is Comeau carrying the puck to start with) then Comeau proceeds to push the CBJ player into Fleury while Downie is doing a fly by on the far post. It's plays like that which end up with a TV getting broke

Gretzky was amazing... He thought the game light years beyond his time.

But when I see his 80's stats, all I can picture are goalies like this:...
Imagine today's forwards shooting on those guys
- rival22

Gretzky also kept things relatively simple. He didn't exactly dangle anyone or try to break through defenders as much as he used the ice better than anyone. His use of the net and the boards as tools essentially allowed him to enjoy a 2-on-1 at all times.

Gretzky was amazing... He thought the game light years beyond his time.

But when I see his 80's stats, all I can picture are goalies like this:




Imagine today's forwards shooting on those guys
- rival22

Imagine today's forwards with the infrequent power plays of the 80s, the strength/conditioning of the 80s, the 2-line pass, one-piece wooden sticks, and gloves that came up to the elbows.

Gretzky also kept things relatively simple. He didn't exactly dangle anyone or try to break through defenders as much as he used the ice better than anyone. His use of the net and the boards as tools essentially allowed him to enjoy a 2-on-1 at all times.
- Johnny Wrath

Gretzky was the smartest player of all time. Mario was probably the most naturally gifted player of all time.

Gretzky was amazing... He thought the game light years beyond his time.

But when I see his 80's stats, all I can picture are goalies like this:




Imagine today's forwards shooting on those guys
- rival22

I miss the cage masks!

anyone listening to MM?

Imagine today's forwards with the infrequent power plays of the 80s, the strength/conditioning of the 80s, the 2-line pass, one-piece wooden sticks, and gloves that came up to the elbows.
- jmatchett383

I wish wood sticks would come back as a rule. I make Jr. High kids use them sometimes because if you can't catch a pass no point in having a 60 flex for a shot. I love wood sticks.

That shorty was a collection if errors. Comeaus drop oass was terrible (and why is Comeau carrying the puck to start with) then Comeau proceeds to push the CBJ player into Fleury whike Downie is doing a fly by on the far post. It's plays like that which end up with a TV getting broke
- willi

Yeah, I thought the breakout was going to go wrong as soon as Sid pulled that drop pass behind the net crap with Geno. Comeau gave Pouliot a suicidal pass while everyone was flying the zone. Neither of those two things can happen. The first three guys back to defend were the forwards.

It's the same deal as the game winner the other night minus the borderline too many men penalty; many breakdowns at once. If that breakdown with Pouliot occurs but the back checkers cover Dubinsky, perhaps that's just a save that goes to the corner and the Penguins regroup. It still would have been 3 on 2 Pens in the zone.

This is a team defined by their staunch commitment to taking shortcuts.

Gretzky was the smartest player of all time. Mario was probably the most naturally gifted player of all time.
- jmatchett383

But how many snicker bars did Gretzky sell? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2UPKVTXIKgg

Where's youmeanddupuis? If you're not at beerfest already, how was Bourque on the 1:00 radio show?

Gretzky was the smartest player of all time. Mario was probably the most naturally gifted player of all time.
- jmatchett383

Gretzky was also the most protected player of all time. You breathed on him wrong, and you were either getting a penalty or punched in the face.

F the regular season. There's nothing left to prove in it. Make it to the playoffs relatively healthy and hopefully on a roll. They're in a mid season slump. So what. Obviously all the stats (fancy or normal) and production are going to take a hit and plummet during a bad slump. Plenty of time to turn this around. Pens aren't the only "elite" team with struggles this year. See: Bruins, Ducks, Kings and Blackhawks to name a few.


F the regular season.