It is remote, but there won't be a deal in place before hand. That would be tampering.
- MJL

Right, so VL holds all the cards. He's got a future after hockey to think about. He's not walking away from money.

Lecavalier would automatically become a UFA with a mutual termination.
- MJL

I meant before he agrees to the termination

How committed to winning are you if you're telling a prospective job candidate that Wheels, the Schenns, Umberger, Rinaldo, basically the entire roster, is going to be back?

You're 29th on the PK and are among the worst teams in franchise history in offensive performance...and you're bringing back the same roster?

That's not a commitment to winning. That's a commitment to being what you already are, which is not winning

If you're a coach, how do you even know the GM is safe if you miss the playoffs again? Why would you take that risk with a roster that you already know can't win?
- AllInForFlyers

Maybe because they can see past today?

who is wheels?
- benjichronic

Vinny. After watching LeClair, Primeau, Handzus, Hatcher, Pronger and Rathje play, I can't bring myself to use this nickname.

To me, you'd have to be stone-cold insane to take the Flyers job over the summer knowing that the last guy got turfed with the same roster, especially if you are a good coach with other options
- AllInForFlyers

You think a guy like Tippet doesn't believe he can do a better job here than Berube? And he'd be getting a guaranteed multi-year, multi-million dollar deal.

How committed to winning are you if you're telling a prospective job candidate that Wheels, the Schenns, Umberger, Rinaldo, basically the entire roster, is going to be back?

You're 29th on the PK and are among the worst teams in franchise history in offensive performance...and you're bringing back the same roster?

That's not a commitment to winning. That's a commitment to being what you already are, which is not winning

If you're a coach, how do you even know the GM is safe if you miss the playoffs again? Why would you take that risk with a roster that you already know can't win?
- AllInForFlyers

Agreed. I always hear the Flyers are committed to winning. Why is this? Because they spend the most money? I would rather have a team that spent money wisely that was working with a budget, then a team that consistently pisses big money away on guys way passed their prime. Bad business.

Edit: There are some positives working in a market like Philadelphia as well.

1. Money is no object (it gives a team an advantage when put to good use)
2. Passionate fan base
3. Next coach who wins a Cup here is going to be diefied

How committed to winning are you if you're telling a prospective job candidate that Wheels, the Schenns, Umberger, Rinaldo, basically the entire roster, is going to be back?

You're 29th on the PK and are among the worst teams in franchise history in offensive performance...and you're bringing back the same roster?

That's not a commitment to winning. That's a commitment to being what you already are, which is not winning

If you're a coach, how do you even know the GM is safe if you miss the playoffs again? Why would you take that risk with a roster that you already know can't win?
- AllInForFlyers

Doesn't a commitment to winning apply long term, rather then just the immediate future?
If a coach is hired in June, he won't even know what might transpire later in the off season. Multiple moves could be made.

They maxed out with the WCF run a few years back; not a crime. Sometimes it happens like that, and you gotta move on to another era

And you are totally correct: Dave Tippett wouldn't be the first to face the firing squad under those circumstances

But also if I'm him, I'm not taking just any job. I'm taking one where the team is either totally young or totally ready to win, not one that is employing Wheels, Umberger, Luke Schenn and Rinaldo...but telling people that we're not tanking, yet not making trades for roster help and/or not buying people out

Yeah, that's a job I'm not taking, if I'm Dave Tippett or anyone else with a pedigree
- AllInForFlyers

Let's hope he's waxing nostalgic for his Flyers days.

I meant before he agrees to the termination
- flyerscup2011

Can't happen before he agrees to the termination.

Right, so VL holds all the cards. He's got a future after hockey to think about. He's not walking away from money.
- Scoob

In that situation, he does. Mutual termination is not a possibility of Lecavalier doesn't agree to it. Flyers can play the card of not promising him ice time, and letting him know what they see his role as.

Right, so VL holds all the cards. He's got a future after hockey to think about. He's not walking away from money.
- Scoob

I'm betting that he's a proud individual also. One who doesn't want his pretty good career tarnished by playing out the string in the press box.

If there's a chance that he can ride off on his own terms by taking on a lesser salary than he's collecting now, I'm also betting he'd go for it.

That said, I bet on Villanova to make it to the final four.

He is also getting the cash from his Lightning buyout, s he's not exactly hurting.

But yeah, why walk away from $10.5mm, when you can recoup 2/3rds of it with the same level of commitment on your own side of things?
- Jsaquella

I could see them, knowing that next season is a transitional/rebuilding year, just carrying Vinny as a spare forward next season assuming no other club will trade for him even with the Flyers retaining the max.

At that point, maybe, Vinny agrees to the mutual termination. Yeah, he'd still be walking away from 6 million but someone would likely bring him in on a tryout or perhaps even offer him a 1 year deal for 925k or less.

Either way, the situation basically blows.

Something has to come to a head with Umberger and Lecavalier. 2 and 3 years respectively of the garbage we saw this year is too much. Paying a premium for replacement level production can cripple a team. By hook, or crook these guys have to be gone. Can't sell them to anyone being on this roster next year. Same goes for Berube. If he's not fired on 4/12, I'm gonna go apepoop.
- PLindbergh31

I think it'll take longer that that for Berube to get fired. Like Torts in Vancouver who got canned on May 1st.

Agreed. I always hear the Flyers are committing to winning. Why is this? Because they spend the most money? I would rather have a team that spent money wisely that was working with a budget, then a team that consistently pisses big money away on guys way passed their prime. Bad business.
- PLindbergh31

I wonder if Holmgren is the most qualified candidate for his position. Is it a commitment to winning or a commitment to the flyer way. I wonder.

Maybe because they can see past today?
- 77rams

Why would you feel that the Flyers' tomorrow is better than Buffalo's, if one of those players in this draft truly is a franchise center or generational player?

Or Edmonton's, if you have Noah Hanifan with Darnell Nurse and Oskar Klefbom?

Or Columbus, which is already beating you despite losing hundreds of man-games to injury?

The only three teams whose short and near-term futures are all-but guaranteed to be worse than the Flyers are Toronto, Phoenix and New Jersey.

Every other franchise out there has just as much chance of making rapid, significant improvement -- just as much chance as the Flyers have

How committed to winning are you if you're telling a prospective job candidate that Wheels, the Schenns, Umberger, Rinaldo, basically the entire roster, is going to be back?

You're 29th on the PK and are among the worst teams in franchise history in offensive performance...and you're bringing back the same roster?

That's not a commitment to winning. That's a commitment to being what you already are, which is not winning

If you're a coach, how do you even know the GM is safe if you miss the playoffs again? Why would you take that risk with a roster that you already know can't win?
- AllInForFlyers

I don't think they're bringing back the same roster.

Coaches are not taking a job for one season. They're going to look at a team's history and resources and gauge if it's a good place to land for the long term. They will see that most of the questionable contracts will be gone within a few year, if not sooner.

They will realize that a couple of seasons retooling will be worth it when the Flyers can release the full financial power they possess and have a number of good prospects ready to step in and join the good solid core already in place.

I don't see Umberger or VLC going anywhere unless they're bought out or a tragic career-ending injury occurs. There is a small possibility that Umberger recovers and gets himself into top condition heading into next season where his wheels are back up to speed but if I'm a betting man I don't bet on that.

It's pretty clear how things are in the league today. You need speed and skating/hockey ability - even in the bottom 6 plug-in positions. Even Columbus saw what was happening with Umberger last season, scratching him and significantly reducing his TOI.
- Pixote Andolini

If Umberger can get reasonably healthy, he can at least be a serviceable 4th liner. They could then buy him out after next year.

I believe the cap penalty would be:
16-17 1.6 mil
17-18 1.5 mil

I think it'll take longer that that for Berube to get fired. Like Torts in Vancouver who got canned on May 1st.
- Feanor

Possibly. But why prolong the obvious? If I'm Hextall I make the move immediately. Always a chance if you wait, other jobs open up and could be filled by potential candidates.

In that situation, he does. Mutual termination is not a possibility of Lecavalier doesn't agree to it. Flyers can play the card of not promising him ice time, and letting him know what they see his role as.
- MJL

Right, but he's still holding the cards because from a business perspective it's cheaper for them to buy him out than let him sit. Then he can try to ply his talents for another team and make up the money he's losing by being bought out.

I wonder if Holmgren is the most qualified candidate for his position. Is it a commitment to winning or a commitment to the flyer way. I wonder.
- Just5

This good old boys network has to stop. Not every position within the Organization has to be filled by an ex-Flyers player.

How committed to winning are you if you're telling a prospective job candidate that Wheels, the Schenns, Umberger, Rinaldo, basically the entire roster, is going to be back?

You're 29th on the PK and are among the worst teams in franchise history in offensive performance...and you're bringing back the same roster?
- AllInForFlyers

The roster isn't the problem with the PK.

I don't think they're bringing back the same roster.

Coaches are not taking a job for one season. They're going to look at a team's history and resources and gauge if it's a good place to land for the long term. They will see that most of the questionable contracts will be gone within a few year, if not sooner.

They will realize that a couple of seasons retooling will be worth it when the Flyers can release the full financial power they possess and have a number of good prospects ready to step in and join the good solid core already in place.
- Jsaquella

All that probably seemed appealing to berube too

That said, I bet on Villanova to make it to the final four.
- 77rams

Ouch. They're the only #1 I didn't pick to make the final 4.

I had Virginia in that last slot.

Ouch.

In that situation, he does. Mutual termination is not a possibility of Lecavalier doesn't agree to it. Flyers can play the card of not promising him ice time, and letting him know what they see his role as.
- MJL

Now that we're out of the playoffs, not playing him in a better role seems stupid to me. There is nothing to lose and one would think we should find out if he has anything left with more talented players. Even if we do lose because Lecavalier is let's say centering the second line, our lottery chances become better. I'm just seeing a lot of pride an ego over one player.

All that probably seemed appealing to berube too
- Just5

A head coaching job and a raise probably seemed appealing to him