Yeah, but the general level of talent in the Red Wings system over the last dozen years has been markedly better than the Flyers.
- TheGreat28

Only the depth... because they stopped chasing the July 1/TDL unicorns. Both teams draft well in their respective ways... if Hexy can stick to drafting/developing, there's really no reason to panic over what G/Jake might look like 4-5 years down the road. They'll have a lot of help.

Looking at the rest of our schedule, as well as Blue Jackets and Devils, where do you think we will finish place wise? All three of us have games against contenders so it should be interesting.
- arichardson22

I think 12th in conference, 24th in league.

#7 draft pick here we come.

He's not the biggest problem... he's one of the many big problems, though.

Berube, Rinaldo (and other guys who shouldn't be in the league), AMac, Vinny, the top-pair, 1LW, 2LW, 2G... they all need to be addressed whenever possible.

It just so happens that Berube is one of the easier ones to fix.
- Tomahawk

I know this will probably get me some flack but I personally put the playing of Rinaldo as one of the lesser issues this team needs to worry about. He seems to be playing a different game since his suspension but who knows if it is sustainable.

- Handling of Mason
- Lack of talent on lines 2-4.
- Stagnation by Couturier, Read and Schenn (injuries, not the perfect scenario for the player, whatever the reason)
- Logic behind benching MDZ and VL.
- Playing Umberger with a broken middle section.
- Defense made up of a 3-6 pairing dmen. On some teams Streit could still be a two I think. MDZ has the potential to be a top player.
- PK is atrocious.
- PP has become predictable.

Those things to me are much bigger issues then Rinaldo. That being said if the only move the make this off season is to remove Rinaldo from the roster then they are still going to be in the exact same boat. He isn't the difference of +/- 3 games.

I think 12th in conference, 24th in league.

#7 draft pick here we come.
- Streit2ThePoint

Maybe the Gods will bless us this lottery and somehow get us the #1 or #2 since philly got screwed with the sixers last season draft

I know this will probably get me some flack but I personally put the playing of Rinaldo as one of the lesser issues this team needs to worry about. He seems to be playing a different game since his suspension but who knows if it is sustainable.

- Handling of Mason
- Lack of talent on lines 2-4.
- Stagnation by Couturier, Read and Schenn (injuries, not the perfect scenario for the player, whatever the reason)
- Logic behind benching MDZ and VL.
- Playing Umberger with a broken middle section.
- Defense made up of a 3-6 pairing dmen. On some teams Streit could still be a two I think. MDZ has the potential to be a top player.
- PK is atrocious.
- PP has become predictable.

Those things to me are much bigger issues then Rinaldo. That being said if the only move the make this off season is to remove Rinaldo from the roster then they are still going to be in the exact same boat. He isn't the difference of +/- 3 games.
- opeth_pa

I swear on PP hasn't changed since Lavy left. its beyond predictable, i question how its been this successful. It literally is Giroux to Streit or Voracek if that space is open. and the three of them just play keep away and every once in a while Giroux finds Simmonds in front for the pass or immediate shot

I know this will probably get me some flack but I personally put the playing of Rinaldo as one of the lesser issues this team needs to worry about.
- opeth_pa

For me, it's less about Rinaldo specifically, and more about them being forced to have 3rd-pairs/bottom-six forwards filled w/ replacement-level guys because they're spending wastefully elsewhere.

Seems like the teams better than us have more depth of talent... even if they have a 4th-line of bangers, theirs are more talented than ours. Clutterbuck > Rinaldo, for example.

Looking at the rest of our schedule, as well as Blue Jackets and Devils, where do you think we will finish place wise? All three of us have games against contenders so it should be interesting.
- arichardson22

I think both Columbus and NJ are going to pass us in the standings and we will end up picking 6th, 7th, or hockey gods willing, 1st.

I know this will probably get me some flack but I personally put the playing of Rinaldo as one of the lesser issues this team needs to worry about. He seems to be playing a different game since his suspension but who knows if it is sustainable.

- Handling of Mason
- Lack of talent on lines 2-4.
- Stagnation by Couturier, Read and Schenn (injuries, not the perfect scenario for the player, whatever the reason)
- Logic behind benching MDZ and VL.
- Playing Umberger with a broken middle section.
- Defense made up of a 3-6 pairing dmen. On some teams Streit could still be a two I think. MDZ has the potential to be a top player.
- PK is atrocious.
- PP has become predictable.

Those things to me are much bigger issues then Rinaldo. That being said if the only move the make this off season is to remove Rinaldo from the roster then they are still going to be in the exact same boat. He isn't the difference of +/- 3 games.
- opeth_pa

Re Rinaldo: For sure, he is way down the list of problems on this team. However, I just don't think you can trust him not to do something stupid at some point. All in all, they are better off without him.

I think both Columbus and NJ are going to pass us in the standings and we will end up picking 6th, 7th, or hockey gods willing, 1st.
- BiggE

if for some odd and rare reason we do get the #1 pick, i wonder what Hexy plan becomes with a future franchise superstar falling into our hands. Does couts become more expendable for acquiring D?

Maybe the Gods will bless us this lottery and somehow get us the #1 or #2 since philly got screwed with the sixers last season draft
- arichardson22

They can't pick second, the lottery only determines the first pick. Even if they lose every game left this season, unless they win the lottery, they won't pick higher than 6th.

Actually, check out some of the studies on the subject.

The study will be published in the June issue of the Journal of Quantitative Analysis in Sports. Brander's co-authors are Edward Egan and Louisa Yeung. They analyzed peak performance in a number of ways, but the statistics they relied on were regular season points scored and plus-minus for skaters and save percentage for goalies.

Brander's team also found that forwards:

- Improve more quickly than they decline and typically begin "a significant decline in their early 30s."

- Perform within 90 per cent of their peak from 24 to 32 years old.

- 25 is their most common age, with 24-27 very similar.

Defencemen, the co-authors report:

- Improve and decline more slowly than forwards and do so very symmetrically.
Perform within 90 per cent of their peak from 24 to 34 years old (two years longer than forwards).

- 26 is their most common age, with 25 and 27 very similar.

For goalies, they found that:

- Performance varies little by age.

- At every age between 20 and 37, their save percentage is between 90 per cent and a tiny fraction over 91 per cent.

- 28 is their most common age, with 26-29 very similar.
- TheGreat28

Look at guys like iginla, jagr, marty st Louis, jumbo, datsyuk & Zetterberg, streit, Kunitz, Fisher, the sedins, vrbata, Justin Williams, gaborik, Hartnell, Pomminville, placanek, wideman, mikko koivu- these are all players that I consider pretty productive and are all over the age of 32. Common theme- excluding a few (fisher, steit, vrbata, wideman, etc) they were elite players and still are just like g and jake. I'm not discrediting anything you wrote, but I think that's more for average nhl players. Kinda pertaining moreso to players that are putting up 20g 20a compared to j and g who are putting up 25+g 50+a.

Only the depth... because they stopped chasing the July 1/TDL unicorns. Both teams draft well in their respective ways... if Hexy can stick to drafting/developing, there's really no reason to panic over what G/Jake might look like 4-5 years down the road. They'll have a lot of help.
- Tomahawk

I hear you. But it's fun to dream a little. I have this fantasy where the Flyers

1)win the lottery and get McDavid
2) trade G for the 3rd pick, high end prospect and 2 other picks and draft Hanifin
3) trade Voracek for the 5th pick (draft Marner) and a couple of high-end prospects/picks.

It has as much chance of happening as my other fantasy (become a billionaire and have a harem that includes the entire roster of models in the last SI swimsuit issue.)

But I wonder how it would turn out. I think I've just been reading too many Sixers articles lol.

The only thing I disagree with here is VLC. I just think that the guy is done, and no matter where in the lineup you play him or whom with, he is going to struggle. I think the only reason he looked ok on the 4th line at times is that he was constantly being matched against the opponents 3rd D pairing.
- BiggE

That's fine you disagree but the point is he hasn't at least been tried else where. Say for example a young up and coming JvR was struggling early in his career back in 2010 but was without rope from Laviolette. So JvR spends the year playing with Betts and Powe while continuing not to produce. Fourth line players aren't really expected to produce offensively. They are expected to generate enery and be responsible defensively within their limited minutes. This isn't a Vincent Lecavalier role. This is also not very good roster with even worse player placement by the coach. You at least give the opportunities when they've been earned and take them away when they aren't deserved.

Re Rinaldo: For sure, he is way down the list of problems on this team. However, I just don't think you can trust him not to do something stupid at some point. All in all, they are better off without him.
- BiggE

there really is no need for him if all three of Frenchy, White, and Vande are back with us next year. Better of giving roster spot to young guy

Would you do this trade?

Giroux for Shattenkirk + Lethtera + Barbashev + 2016 2nd

Asking for a friend.

if for some odd and rare reason we do get the #1 pick, i wonder what Hexy plan becomes with a future franchise superstar falling into our hands. Does couts become more expendable for acquiring D?
- arichardson22

I'll probably get lambasted for this, but if we win the lottery and Buffalo has the 2nd pick, I'd offer to swap #1 for #2 and their other 1st round pick, as long as Buffalo takes VLC, Umberger and Pronger off our hands.

We'd still get a 1st line center in Eichel, another 1st in a strong draft and all of our cap problems would basically be solved.

Very good, very balanced take on the Flyers situation with Berube.

I'm among the most critical of him, but I also realize the issues are not all on him. i think his combination of strengths and weaknesses are better suited to the role of assistant coach, rather than head coach. Or maybe more correctly, his very blunt style requires a guy like Keith Primeau, a vocal leader to buffer it, rather than guys like Giroux and Simmonds, who seem to be more of the lead by example style.

His handling of players seems to be an issue. Guys like Lecavalier and Del Zotto remarked on the lack of communication when they were benched for stretches early in the season. And the Mason debacle is highly concerning, because it's the player making diplomatic statements and the coach seeming to go out of his way to be critical of the goalie.

Given how that has played out, it's hard to dismiss stories like Frank Seravalli's saying that Reese's departure was over the handling of the goalie situation and injuries. All I know is, the Flyers lost a guy who has done a great job for an extended period and now there's a hole in what should be a strong point.

I admit I'm biased. But I also feel that Berube makes coaching decisions from a biased perspective and tends to ignore some glaring performance issues in guys that play the game "his way" while giving far less rope to guys who are not the traditional hard working, gritty pros that he was. Relying so heavy on Umberger is a prime example of this.

I am not anti-Berube because he was an enforcer or marginal player. Great coaches often come from marginal guys, but I'm no sure that Berube has the ability to give the X's and O's while handling the growing pains and inconsistencies that players face, because his own mantra was work harder. Hard work is needed, but often times if unguided, a player can work hard in the wrong direction. And some guys need more guidance than "work harder"

Berube is faced with a difficult task and a mediocre at best roster. The Flyers have many holes and based on the roster alone,I felt that this was a lottery team since last summer. That said, I think that Berube's handling of the roster has been poor. He's not without his good qualities, but at this point, I don't think he's a good head coach. In time he may be, and I do think he can be an asset as an assistant. But I think they need to go in a different direction, no matter what Hextall does with the roster.
- Jsaquella

Great post by the way. Very FF16 like.

Look at guys like iginla, jagr, marty st Louis, jumbo, datsyuk & Zetterberg, streit, Kunitz, Fisher, the sedins, vrbata, Justin Williams, gaborik, Hartnell, Pomminville, placanek, wideman, mikko koivu- these are all players that I consider pretty productive and are all over the age of 32. Common theme- excluding a few (fisher, steit, vrbata, wideman, etc) they were elite players and still are just like g and jake. I'm not discrediting anything you wrote, but I think that's more for average nhl players. Kinda pertaining moreso to players that are putting up 20g 20a compared to j and g who are putting up 25+g 50+a.
- benjichronic

All those guys listed mainly also have young productive players on their lines that give them space and opportunity to produce chances and points. If we have that with Jake and G we will be completely fine!

Would you do this trade?

Giroux for Shattenkirk + Lethtera + Barbashev + 2016 2nd

Asking for a friend.
- Streit2ThePoint

Nope

I'll probably get lambasted for this, but if we win the lottery and Buffalo has the 2nd pick, I'd offer to swap #1 for #2 and their other 1st round pick, as long as Buffalo takes VLC, Umberger and Pronger off our hands.

We'd still get a 1st line center in Eichel, another 1st in a strong draft and all of our cap problems would basically be solved.
- BiggE

I would do that in a heart beat. we also would still have TB's first

I hear you. But it's fun to dream a little. I have this fantasy where the Flyers

1)win the lottery and get McDavid
2) trade G for the 3rd pick, high end prospect and 2 other picks and draft Hanifin
3) trade Voracek for the 5th pick (draft Marner) and a couple of high-end prospects/picks.

It has as much chance of happening as my other fantasy (become a billionaire and have a harem that includes the entire roster of models in the last SI swimsuit issue.)

But I wonder how it would turn out. I think I've just been reading too many Sixers articles lol.
- TheGreat28

Screw the Flyers, I want that one!

Paul Maclean is probably my #1 choice at head coach after Babcock (long shot IMO, we'll see) and MacLellan

I've been saying that since mid January, LOL
- BiggE

Were you the originator of the Homgren as interim coach idea? Cause I love that idea.

Haha! Don't Hinkie it just yet. I think if they are able to develop a franchise Dman and a couple of the other D prospects turn into good pros, the team could develop into a contender. It's usually much easier to find skilled forwards in UFA too, if need be. So by the time the D prospects develop and hopefully the cap is in better shape. Giroux and Jake will be in their early 30's and hopefully still playing effective hockey at a high level.

A lot of things have to go right in that scenario, but it isn't like there's a higher chance of success doing it the Hinkie way, right? I just try to be optimistic, otherwise it isn't much fun for me.
- kellyblaise7

Not surprised at the logic, coming from a Haddon Twp resident. Lot of smart people from that burg

Look at guys like iginla, jagr, marty st Louis, jumbo, datsyuk & Zetterberg, streit, Kunitz, Fisher, the sedins, vrbata, Justin Williams, gaborik, Hartnell, Pomminville, placanek, wideman, mikko koivu- these are all players that I consider pretty productive and are all over the age of 32. Common theme- excluding a few (fisher, steit, vrbata, wideman, etc) they were elite players and still are just like g and jake. I'm not discrediting anything you wrote, but I think that's more for average nhl players. Kinda pertaining moreso to players that are putting up 20g 20a compared to j and g who are putting up 25+g 50+a.
- benjichronic

But playing Devil's advocate, a common fallacy is using a few exceptions to define a rule. That study in particular looked at EVERY player over 14 seasons. Giroux could be Marty St. Louis. Or he could be Danny Briere, who started a much bigger decline at 32-33.