If he falls to Carolina or Columbus, they may have a chance to move up.

Strome, I'm not so sure. My uneducated guess would be that the cost would be prohibitive.
- 77rams

I will put money on Carolina taking Provorov if Hanifin is already gone. Maybe they take Hanifin but between EDM and Carolina two D men could easily be off the board when we pick.

That hartnell trade is almost worse than Jvr

Hartnell drew more penalties than he took.

I really don't think theres much more to it. It was just a bad evaluation of talent by the team.

It's over. They can't undo it now.
- PhillySportsGuy

Raffl has more than compensated for the loss of Hartnell on the 1st line. The PP has been very good without Hartnell. I think we agree the value of Umberger for at least 2015 was seriously disappointing. Either they misjudged Hartnell's injury, Umby's done or the situation was untenable. We'll never know.

I wouldn't trade up unless it's for a top 2 pick. There's a pretty big drop off between 2 and 3 but not so much between 3 and maybe 8 or even 9. If we don't get Provorov, we might get Werenski. If not then maybe Barzal, or Hanifin, or Marner, or Strome. These are all awesome prospects and I'd be happy with any one of them. No real point in moving up to get a guy who could just as easily drop down to 7th or 8th. at least one of these guys WILL be available to us, though.
- JAKEw1234

And with the top 2 picks it will cost both arms, legs, and maybe a few future off-spring

stick and stay

oh yes.

dude that (frank)ing team. im worried about everything.

kunitz is weird though. i really though the skating would be the thing to go, but it hasnt.

he regularly keeps up, and he gets to scoring spots. but its the hands man. they have literally eroded. and i just dont get that. usually, they are the last to go.

granted, hes not even in the same stratosphere as kovalev, but even when he could barely walk he could still handle inside a phonebooth.

but whatever. par for the course this year.
- stayinthefnnet

You are correct; it's usually the wheels that go, then the will to go to hard areas, then the hands

It's rough when any of them go, but maybe he evolves into a checker if he can still skate

He'd probably be a better winger than half of the guys in the system.

(frank), he'd probably be a better winger than half of the guys on the actual big club.
- stayinthefnnet

You have him Jarry and Kapanen and few draft picks to add to the system. Perhaps they'll make a run at a few college free agents.

You have him Jarry and Kapanen and few draft picks to add to the system. Perhaps they'll make a run at a few college free agents.
- ob18

i actually really like jarry from what ive seen.

for some reason murray seems like a guy who will not translate to me, but who knows.

still, both are irrelevant for the next 2 or 3 years at least anyway. and its not like both have a future with the big club, even as a backup.

i like kapanen so far, but i think he will take some time.

and yeah, they have a second this year. cant wait for whatever gem that yields. i really wish they would make a run at a few collegiate free agents. they never seem to, but in todays nhl a team cant afford to leave every potential avenue at infusing young new talent into the organization unexplored.

That hartnell trade is almost worse than Jvr
- Winning

Regarding the returns, both left you asking, "is that all?"

And with the top 2 picks it will cost both arms, legs, and maybe a few future off-spring

stick and stay
- ob18

If they're gonna burn the TB pick in a trade, I'd rather they use it to get an NHL roster player with some youth and upside

If they don't do that, then I agree: Use both picks

You are correct; it's usually the wheels that go, then the will to go to hard areas, then the hands

It's rough when any of them go, but maybe he evolves into a checker if he can still skate
- AllInForFlyers

he definitely became more of a finesse player the last 2 years or so, sort of like hartnell started to towards his last days in philly.

which is still sort of fine, provided you can capitalize on the opportunities. but he hasnt. at all.

i actually really like jarry from what ive seen.

for some reason murray seems like a guy who will not translate to me, but who knows.

still, both are irrelevant for the next 2 or 3 years at least anyway. and its not like both have a future with the big club, even as a backup.

i like kapanen so far, but i think he will take some time.

and yeah, they have a second this year. cant wait for whatever gem that yields. i really wish they would make a run at a few collegiate free agents. they never seem to, but in todays nhl a team cant afford to leave every potential avenue at infusing young new talent into the organization unexplored.
- stayinthefnnet

I'd say 1 will end up being moved but who that might be who knows. Ugly things could be shortly down the road for you guys.

If you are a believer in things such as statistical probability, which it sometimes appears, then yes, it is highly likely that Hartnell will not age gracefully

Doesn't change what he's doing now, and he gets credit for that. But aging players in general and players who play like Hartnell, who aren't great skaters to begin with...it can be both, where he plays well now and looks really bad later

I think it will be both, because of his skating, but we shall see
- AllInForFlyers

I'm just saying he didn't regress at all this season. Everyone is assuming he will be terrible in two years. I'm saying that it's not a given.

From a personal standpoint, I would have accepted a couple poopty years from Hartnell. By the time his contract might become an issue, guys like Pronger and VL would have been off the cap. If they managed things correctly, it wouldn't have been that big of a deal.

I just really liked him and he gave the team a fun personality. I also think he was a completely undervalued player with lots of the fans. So many people saw him as being a product of his linemates.

If Hexy wanted to move him for salary purposes, then move him for nothing and take the cap space. If Hexy wanted to move him for a nice asset, then take back a bad contract as well as a prospect/high pick.

he definitely became more of a finesse player the last 2 years or so, sort of like hartnell started to towards his last days in philly.

which is still sort of fine, provided you can capitalize on the opportunities. but he hasnt. at all.
- stayinthefnnet

Is there ever any mention about moving Malkin to try and better round out the team and for cap space?

maybe he questioned the sign in the locker room
- stayinthefnnet

I'm sure he did.

God I hate that sign.

he definitely became more of a finesse player the last 2 years or so, sort of like hartnell started to towards his last days in philly.

which is still sort of fine, provided you can capitalize on the opportunities. but he hasnt. at all.
- stayinthefnnet

Whether you guys make or miss, I think the smart play is cashing in on Malkin now -- it's time

It really is -- 11 years is a good run for any player in one city, anymore, and every team that is chasing you is younger and getting better

I'm just saying he didn't regress at all this season. Everyone is assuming he will be terrible in two years. I'm saying that it's not a given.

From a personal standpoint, I would have accepted a couple poopty years from Hartnell. By the time his contract might become an issue, guys like Pronger and VL would have been off the cap. If they managed things correctly, it wouldn't have been that big of a deal.

I just really liked him and he gave the team a fun personality. I also think he was a completely undervalued player with lots of the fans. So many people saw him as being a product of his linemates.

If Hexy wanted to move him for salary purposes, then move him for nothing and take the cap space. If Hexy wanted to move him for a nice asset, then take back a bad contract as well as a prospect/high pick.
- PhillySportsGuy

The team definitely felt different the minute he was gone. Even with all the stupid things he did, team lacks a certain charisma without him, IMO

Is there ever any mention about moving Malkin to try and better round out the team and for cap space?
- 77rams

haha thats pretty much 90 percent of the discussion on the pens board from what i've seen.

its not something im necessarily a fan of.

Whether you guys make or miss, I think the smart play is cashing in on Malkin now -- it's time

It really is -- 11 years is a good run for any player in one city, anymore, and every team that is chasing you is younger and getting better
- AllInForFlyers

Has he really been there for 11 years?? Holy poop

I get the angst about the club next year, and certainly Hexy has work to do over the summer. However, how bad really is this team that more then held its own against playoff teams, but sucked against the non playoff teams?

Find me an another puck moving dman and I'm good. Kind of hard to generate offense when the team has had so much difficulty coming cleaning out of the defensive zone. It might be through a trade or maybe Hexy finds another gem on the scrap heap. I just need to see a little more skill and mobility on the backend.

I'm just saying he didn't regress at all this season. Everyone is assuming he will be terrible in two years. I'm saying that it's not a given.

From a personal standpoint, I would have accepted a couple poopty years from Hartnell. By the time his contract might become an issue, guys like Pronger and VL would have been off the cap. If they managed things correctly, it wouldn't have been that big of a deal.

I just really liked him and he gave the team a fun personality. I also think he was a completely undervalued player with lots of the fans. So many people saw him as being a product of his linemates.

If Hexy wanted to move him for salary purposes, then move him for nothing and take the cap space. If Hexy wanted to move him for a nice asset, then take back a bad contract as well as a prospect/high pick.
- PhillySportsGuy

I agree with what you just said -- I understand if you want to move a guy, any guy

But taking back a player who was, at best, in decline and who actually makes more in salary while under contract...even though I understood the why and agree with it in principle for the long-term savings, it's still a tough, tough deal to swallow

Raffl has more than compensated for the loss of Hartnell on the 1st line. The PP has been very good without Hartnell. I think we agree the value of Umberger for at least 2015 was seriously disappointing. Either they misjudged Hartnell's injury, Umby's done or the situation was untenable. We'll never know.
- jstross

But moving Raffl up to the top line has left a huge void at LW on the 2nd and 3rd lines. They are desperate for a top 6 LW now and have very little money to spend.

I think the Flyers may try to package their two number ones -- one of which will be a top-10 pick -- as a means of moving up to draft a coveted player whom they consider a potential major impact player at his position (apart from McDavid and Eichel).
- bmeltzer

Mitch Marner.

But moving Raffl up to the top line has left a huge void at LW on the 2nd and 3rd lines. They are desperate for a top 6 LW now and have very little money to spend.
- PhillySportsGuy

I really do think they need to cash that TB pick in some kind of deal for a youthful LW

I truly believe that

The team definitely felt different the minute he was gone. Even with all the stupid things he did, team lacks a certain charisma without him, IMO
- funmaster18

I know. I felt like he was a strong voice for the players too. He's the type of player who would go to Chief and voice his opinion.

Sadly, I think thats one of the reasons they wanted him gone.

I'm just saying he didn't regress at all this season. Everyone is assuming he will be terrible in two years. I'm saying that it's not a given.

From a personal standpoint, I would have accepted a couple poopty years from Hartnell. By the time his contract might become an issue, guys like Pronger and VL would have been off the cap. If they managed things correctly, it wouldn't have been that big of a deal.

I just really liked him and he gave the team a fun personality. I also think he was a completely undervalued player with lots of the fans. So many people saw him as being a product of his linemates.

If Hexy wanted to move him for salary purposes, then move him for nothing and take the cap space. If Hexy wanted to move him for a nice asset, then take back a bad contract as well as a prospect/high pick.
- PhillySportsGuy

I agree with the points to just trade for pick(s) or get more if you take back a bad contract. Long way to go before the 2017/18 season which is when Umberger will be off the cap. VL would still be on the Cap then, but Pronger's hit would be gone.