I don't see anybody moving up into the Top 2 without giving up some serious assets.
- wolfhounds

Yeah, no way. From the Flyers you're talking involving Jake and picks. Not worth it.

Yup, plenty of Top 5 picks haven't worked out as expected. Schenn's? But where G and Jake were picked is irrelevant because plenty of Top 5 picks have been exactly what everyone thought they would be.
- wolfhounds

Where they were picked is not irrelevant when discussing the odds of drafting a top player. Just as plenty of top 5 picks have been exactly what everyone thought they would be, so have picks made later in the first round, and in the case of Giroux, sometimes even much better. That has clear relevance to the conversation.

I just rewatched all of McDavid's WJC highlights and all of Eichel's WJC highlights. I think I'm a bit more hyped for Eichel at this point. Even compared to McDavid he just looked so explosive, creative, and in control of the game. His stick handling, speed, and acceleration are just insane and his strength is nothing to slouch at either. Whichever team gets him is incredibly lucky.

Eichel's WJC highlights: http://www.youtube.com/wa...ature=channel_video_title

McDavid's: http://www.youtube.com/wa...ature=channel_video_title
- JAKEw1234

yes lets draft a player based on highlights from one tournament

Come on man McDavid and Eichel are as close to surefire all stars as you can get coming out of the draft.

Were you spouting "top 5 players never flopped before" when Crosby was the consensus #1?? Or an even better comparison, when Malkin and Ovechkin were going to get drafted? McDavid/Eichel is on par with Malkin/Ovechkin.

You're right. Hitting core players, let alone solid players, certainly includes some luck. But man...this is a little bit different.
- Giroux_Is_God

If you think I was saying that McDavid or Eichel might be flops, there's two possibilities there. One I didn't make myself clear, or you misunderstood what I was saying. My intent was to state that players chosen after McDavid and Eichel could be flops, so there is also a risk in trading up if you don't get one of the top 2 spots.

yup

Let's face it...trading up into the top 2 isn't going to happen. It's fun to think about though.

I'm sure they'll pick 2 solid prospects in the first round. That's the most likely scenario and the one I see happening.
- Giroux_Is_God

My logic is, once these guys hit the NHL, they become players that you cannot trade for. Even if the price is steep, this is one of the few instances where you can trade for a franchise player. And it's almost a guaranteed return on investment. If we gave our 3 1st rounders in the next 2 years to move to the #2 pick, I could pretty well promise that Eichel will be worth more than that in a few years.

Agreed, there is no way that you can guarantee that the player you take with Tampa's pick will be a "core" player. Hell, you can't even guarantee it for a guy taken 7th, 8th or 9th.

So, if they really love a guy that is available in the top 5, be it Strome, Provorov or, for Tomahawks sake, Marner, you make the move to get your guy.
- BiggE

If they make the move, he better the guy.

For a guy like Provorov, I don't think it will take a huge amount to move up. May only take a the 2nd rounder.

If you think I was saying that McDavid or Eichel might be flops, there's two possibilities there. One I didn't make myself clear, or you misunderstood what I was saying. My intent was to state that players chosen after McDavid and Eichel could be flops, so there is also a risk in trading up if you don't get one of the top 2 spots.
- MJL

Whew. I was worried.

If they make the move, he better the guy.

For a guy like Provorov, I don't think it will take a huge amount to move up. May only take a the 2nd rounder.
- PhillySportsGuy

maybe even less if we're just moving from 7th or 8th up to 6th

My logic is, once these guys hit the NHL, they become players that you cannot trade for. Even if the price is steep, this is one of the few instances where you can trade for a franchise player. And it's almost a guaranteed return on investment. If we gave our 3 1st rounders in the next 2 years to move to the #2 pick, I could pretty well promise that Eichel will be worth more than that in a few years.
- JAKEw1234

I'm with you. I'd be all for trading up to the top 2. That's a video game move, and one I'd be psyched about if it happened.

My logic is, once these guys hit the NHL, they become players that you cannot trade for. Even if the price is steep, this is one of the few instances where you can trade for a franchise player. And it's almost a guaranteed return on investment. If we gave our 3 1st rounders in the next 2 years to move to the #2 pick, I could pretty well promise that Eichel will be worth more than that in a few years.
- JAKEw1234

I don't think you get that pick for 3 first rounders.

Whew. I was worried.
- Giroux_Is_God

Don't you worry about MJL, let me worry about blank.

Whew. I was worried.
- Giroux_Is_God

I guess you overlooked "There's no risk at all after McDavid and Eichel? "

I don't think you get that pick for 3 first rounders.
- MJL

If you did the Oilers, Yotes and Leafs all have better picks to offer than us anyway. Its a pipedream.

I don't think you get that pick for 3 first rounders.
- MJL

The point is that it'd be hard to pay too much. Even if it were more, it's a pretty safe investment. Think about it, if we traded Giroux straight up for the 1st pick, it wouldn't be a bad investment. We would probably just break even on our investment, as McDavid will probably end up in Giroux's production area or above, but it wouldn't really be bad. Now I wouldn't do that but it's just to illustrate a point.

Bill Meltzer: Meltzer's Musings: A Look Inside Mason's Career Year
- bmeltzer

I'm getting a complex about Mason and the amount of detractors he has.

I guess you overlooked "There's no risk at all after McDavid and Eichel? "
- MJL

Just missed the general idea. It happens. No need to asphyxiate me with it. This is why you get such low marks around you. You're relentless a lot of the time.

Just move on dude.

The point is that it'd be hard to pay too much. Even if it were more, it's a pretty safe investment. Think about it, if we traded Giroux straight up for the 1st pick, it wouldn't be a bad investment. We would probably just break even on our investment, as McDavid will probably end up in Giroux's production area or above, but it wouldn't really be bad. Now I wouldn't do that but it's just to illustrate a point.
- JAKEw1234

I am thinking about it. Have to deal in reality. Giroux straight up wouldn't get you that pick.

I'm getting a complex about Mason and the amount of detractors he has.
- Jsaquella

I like it, tbh. People refuse to acknowledge it because "lol flyera" (ugh, can we please retire this?), and they consistently disappear everytime he proves the doubters wrong.

If they make the move, he better the guy.

For a guy like Provorov, I don't think it will take a huge amount to move up. May only take a the 2nd rounder.
- PhillySportsGuy

If they are at 7, I don't move. At 7, you're going to get a shot at one of Strome, Marner, Barzal, Hanifin or Provorov.

If the draft goes McDavid, Eichel, Hanifin, Strome, Marner as most suspect, then they'll have a 50-50 shot at Barzal or Provorov, either of whom could be in that group of 5. Provorov was a late riser and Barzal started the season hurt, and couldn't match the gaudy stats of Strome or Marner. Even if they miss out, there's still plenty of good names that will be there at 8 or 9.

Where they were picked is not irrelevant when discussing the odds of drafting a top player. Just as plenty of top 5 picks have been exactly what everyone thought they would be, so have picks made later in the first round, and in the case of Giroux, sometimes even much better. That has clear relevance to the conversation.
- MJL

Well, Jake was a #7 pick, so I'm not sure why he was mentioned at all. Regardless, Top 5 picks are always preferred but the draft is an inexact science therefore quality players can be found throughout. But the odds get long once you're out of the first round.

I like it, tbh. People refuse to acknowledge it because "lol flyera" (ugh, can we please retire this?), and they consistently disappear everytime he proves the doubters wrong.
- BulliesPhan87

Yeah, that's a dollop of whipped cream, but I'd like people to recognize how hard this guy has worked to resurrect his career, and how good he's been.

Are you forgetting that McDavid was playing with a recently broken hand??
He probably wasn't 100% for a few weeks after the tourney.
- fishbulb

Here's what I'd do after we win the lottery...

Swap places with Buffalo for their 2nd, 22nd and their 31st. Then offer the Oil the 22nd, 31st, Morin and Laughton for the 3rd. Select Eichel and Noah.

And we still keep our 27th selection. Done.

If they make the move, he better the guy.

For a guy like Provorov, I don't think it will take a huge amount to move up. May only take a the 2nd rounder.
- PhillySportsGuy

Provorov or Werenksi would be clutch picks. That puts the D farm system amoung the leagues best, if not the best. From there I have to look to move up with Tampa's pick for a playmaker up front. I think they could swing a move for Zacha or Meier. They have the pieces. If they stand pat and draft Greenway or a defensive D man with that pick at 27 I'll be a little disappointed.

Yeah, that's a dollop of whipped cream, but I'd like people to recognize how hard this guy has worked to resurrect his career, and how good he's been.
- Jsaquella

I think if/when he continues it through next year, he'll finally earn some recognition. Numbers geeks love things that happen three times. It's, like, the scientific method or something.

Yeah, that's a dollop of whipped cream, but I'd like people to recognize how hard this guy has worked to resurrect his career, and how good he's been.
- Jsaquella

We're gonna have to be a contender with a few playoff runs and/or a SC Finals appearance before that happens. And I really hope it happens in the next 3 years?