Edler was -39 last year and we kept him.
- A_SteamingLombardi

Yup. And I was on here saying that I would keep him and not sell low. I'm trying to avoid using "fancy stats" today so my arguments don't get completely written off but Edler's numbers last year suggested that he as still a top 4 dman but just had a bad year and bad luck. Tanev also played a huge role in his resurgence this year.

I agree with both these statements, so many things can change but by signing him now to this imo overpayment he has limited his ability to adapt to potential changes this summer.

We have already seen how teams that are close to the cap get taken advantage on the trade market.
- belcherbd

I think there's possible markets for Miller (SJ) Bieksa and Higgins....that's 13 million in cap hits, depending on what comes back. Like I said, a lot can happen before October.

In the beginning of the signing he was a steal now not so much.
- thundachunk

He was never a steal. The people who looked at the numbers knew it was terrible all along. I even trolled their thread that day

I have little doubt that Benning is aware of the fancy stats and he still feels that the player is worth paying for now. I imagine he believes that this deal will be a bargain in 2 years. Further, I'm very sure that the team looks at every goal and scoring chance the opposition has and the factor in what went wrong, why it happened and who is to account for it. So there may be causality to the goals against stat or it may be a coincidental accumulation of goals being scored despite and in spite of Sbisa.

From a far more casual perspective, Sbisa plays with an edge and he's stopped playing above his abilities in the offensive zone. He's made progress and I don't fear him on the ice. I think the deal is fine.
- micah555

I'm sure Benning is aware of fancy stats, but I don't think he feels they are relevant. I also didn't use any to comment on Sbisa as I know they are generally dismissed here which is fine as they can be flawed.

Stats are generally only worth anything when used in a large sample size because then you can filter out the + and - that have no relevance to the player. Looking at Sbisa over his 340 game career, all stats fancy or traditional do not point to him being anything other than a bottom pairing guy.

I agree, I can understand why people like him even if I don't but I have yet to hear any argument that justifies his contract length or amount or why it needed to happen now.

Most GM's save money on RFA's and don't rush into paying them, but Benning felt this was necessary at this point, instead of waiting for the off-season and seeing what options he has as well how Sbisa does in the playoffs.

Kris Russel, Danny DeKeyser, Ryan Ellis, Tyson Barrie have all been signed to contracts recently as pending RFA's at much more manageable amounts. Comparing him to Engelland (UFA), Fayne (UFA) etc doesn't make any sense.
- belcherbd

Yup. I haven't heard a reasonable argument either that justifies that this contract makes sense. Just random statement that he's "improving" and "stepped up" with no evidence to support the claim.

Yup. I haven't heard a reasonable argument either that justifies that this contract makes sense. Just random statement that he's "improving" and "stepped up" with no evidence to support the claim.
- Nucker101

That and any one who doesn't clap when Benning farts is a mommy hugging crybaby, who doesn't appreciate that the canucks are in the playoffs....

He has had flashes of brilliance but nothing that would constitute a big raise imo.
- thundachunk

Matthias played 5 years in the NHL before this year and he averaged 10 goals a season. This year he has 18, almost doubling his average. He is UFA and will most likely get a decent raise. His agent will definitely push for one. So, do Benning and his staff view Matthias as a 20 goal guy and give him a generous raise? Or is he a more of a 10 goal guy and not worth a big cap hit? I'm guessing the latter. Also based on the reaction of the Sbisa and Dorrsett raises, how is it going to look if Matthias does get a big raise and returns to a 10 goal/season production. The city will eat him alive.

I think there's possible markets for Miller (SJ) Bieksa and Higgins....that's 13 million in cap hits, depending on what comes back. Like I said, a lot can happen before October.
- LeftCoaster

Definitely, those contracts might be able to be moved. The Miller one I have serious doubts and I have been on board for moving Vets while they have value for a while, but that still doesn't explain why you have to rush into signing a RFA now.

So what is the alternative? Trade him for peanuts and shop for a physical 6/7 dman that costs 1 mil less on the UFA market? There's no gauantee they will save money or get what they need. I think Benning did the safe thing and invested 1 mil extra in knowing they still have a big physical player and follow through on the hunch that he will improve... like I said he was instantly better without Bieksa... we know Sbisa can be better... and still only 25.... and still tradeable even if it were for a 5th... the contract won't hurt this team as much as people have convinced themselves. This isnt the 40 mil cap limit that bred all the panick stricken fans 2 lock outs ago.
- boonerbuck

Here here booner!

(frank), even at the deadline, you could deal him for 2 seconds an d a 3rd or whatever the overpriced asking price is at the deadline if you felt he wasnt in the teams long term plans......

If we look at the Luongo and Kesler trade situation as being similar, don’t you think it’s interesting that JB makes it a priority to re-sign a player acquired through one of his first big trades (some said Sbisa was a throw-in) rather than a player acquired through the previous GM’s big trade?

Why is Sbisa a priority and not Matthias? Is this a case of a GM validating his own trade?

I'm just stirring the pot here…
- bloatedmosquito

We may have nothing to show for the Luongo trade come October. I doubt Matthias is gonna resign (will want too much money) and Markstrom could go play in Europe.

Hopefully, Matthias' rights get traded and somebody REALLY needs a young GT. BUF or ARI maybe?

Matthias played 5 years in the NHL before this year and he averaged 10 goals a season. This year he has 18, almost doubling his average. He is UFA and will most likely get a decent raise. His agent will definitely push for one. So, do Benning and his staff view Matthias as a 20 goal guy and give him a generous raise? Or is he a more of a 10 goal guy and not worth a big cap hit? I'm guessing the latter. Also based on the reaction of the Sbisa and Dorrsett raises, how is it going to look if Matthias does get a big raise and returns to a 10 goal/season production. The city will eat him alive.
- fiveandagame

Yeah, but even the sedins aren't immune to criticism. Life of a professional athlete.

I think Matthias still has potential. It would be a shame to lose him for nothing.

I have little doubt that Benning is aware of the fancy stats and he still feels that the player is worth paying for now. I imagine he believes that this deal will be a bargain in 2 years. Further, I'm very sure that the team looks at every goal and scoring chance the opposition has and the factor in what went wrong, why it happened and who is to account for it. So there may be causality to the goals against stat or it may be a coincidental accumulation of goals being scored despite and in spite of Sbisa.

From a far more casual perspective, Sbisa plays with an edge and he's stopped playing above his abilities in the offensive zone. He's made progress and I don't fear him on the ice. I think the deal is fine.
- micah555

Well put, I'm sure everything that happens on the ice is analyzed and where there was a breakdown, what was the cause and what can be done to mitigate it from reccuring.

To suggest Benning is saving face is a bit laughable...."Hey Sbisa, your one of my first acquistions, and I know you're only worth 2.5m, and I can probably hard ball you, but I need to save face, tell you what how does 3.6m sound...deal.

Awesome, now go out there tonight and make sure you live up to the 7th worst GF/GA that the posters on hockeybuzz are upset about...we gotta show I only did this to save face"

We may have nothing to show for the Luongo trade come October. I doubt Matthias is gonna resign (will want too much money) and Markstrom could go play in Europe.

Hopefully, Matthias' rights get traded and somebody REALLY needs a young GT. BUF or ARI maybe?
- PetrolSexual

Matthias's rights won't be worth anything if that was going to happen it would of been at the TDL. I'm happy he stayed because he is a solid member of this forward group.

The Luongo trade was terrible value then and now, yes it needed to happen but Gillis got straight up fleeced.

Yeah, but even the sedins aren't immune to criticism. Life of a professional athlete.

I think Matthias still has potential. It would be a shame to lose him for nothing.
- bloatedmosquito

As mentioned in this thread, If Benning really sees value in Mattias, he will clear space for him.

We may have nothing to show for the Luongo trade come October. I doubt Matthias is gonna resign (will want too much money) and Markstrom could go play in Europe.

Hopefully, Matthias' rights get traded and somebody REALLY needs a young GT. BUF or ARI maybe?
- PetrolSexual

Oh, the canucks will have something to show for that trade; a good chunk of Lu's salary is still retained by the canucks and of course the cap hit that comes with it.

Yup. I haven't heard a reasonable argument either that justifies that this contract makes sense. Just random statement that he's "improving" and "stepped up" with no evidence to support the claim.
- Nucker101

Benning/WD see something in him, something that can lead to imminent improvement and justify a 3.6m cap hit. My guess is that Sbisa takes instruction really well and the Canucks org feel they've been successful in converting him into a player that they need. It's a 3 year deal so he's hedging his bets that the improvement materializes in the near term.

This is the only rationale that makes sense. Otherwise giving a guy who has 11 points and is -9 an 80% raise is completely bonkers.

So the main arguments that Luca Sbisa is worth his deal are:

- It's an overpay, but not crippling since the cap is at 70 million or so
- Beat out others to earn his minutes and role
- He's tough and physical and can skate well
- He's still young and has potential to improve
- He can still be traded after
- He's improved over the season and stepped up when injuries hit
- Decent on the PK
- Who do we replace him with?

And against:

- Has one of the worst goals against rates in the league(the worst among all playoff team dmen)
- Has one of the worst shots against rates in the league
- Has actually barely improved statistically in either of the above categories over the past 30 games.
- Doesn't provide offense
- Isn't getting difficult minutes and still has a bad GA rate
- Is easy and waaay cheaper to replace considering he's not good defensively or offensively
- Was a RFA so he could have been signed to a one year "prove it" deal before signing him to multiple years with a raise

Oh, the canucks will have something to show for that trade; a good chunk of Lu's salary is still retained by the canucks and of course the cap hit that comes with it.


- bloatedmosquito

Yup. And possible cap penalties if he retires early.

So the main arguments that Luca Sbisa is worth his deal are:

- It's an overpay, but not crippling since the cap is at 70 million or so
- Beat out others to earn his minutes and role
- He's tough and physical and can skate well
- He's still young and has potential to improve
- He can still be traded after
- He's improved over the season and stepped up when injuries hit
- Decent on the PK
- Who do we replace him with?

And against:

- Has one of the worst goals against rates in the league(the worst among all playoff team dmen)
- Has one of the worst shots against rates in the league
- Has actually barely improved statistically in either of the above categories over the past 30 games.
- Doesn't provide offense
- Isn't getting difficult minutes and still has a bad GA rate
- Is easy and waaay cheaper to replace considering he's not good defensively or offensively
- Was a RFA so he could have been signed to a one year "prove it" deal before signing him to multiple years with a raise
- Nucker101

You forgot For : has no NTC

Against : contract is so bad it is essentially a NTC

Lots of teams want guys his size, I think JB wants to keep him as well, who knows maybe he moves some $ around and signs him. That would probably put us right up against the cap though. Good or bad?

- VanHockeyGuy

If you can move Higgins you can keep Matthias

You forgot For : has no NTC

Against : contract is so bad it is essentially a NTC
- belcherbd

If you can move Sbisa you can keep Matthias
- VANTEL

Benning/WD see something in him, something that can lead to imminent improvement and justify a 3.6m cap hit. My guess is that Sbisa takes instruction really well and the Canucks org feel they've been successful in converting him into a player that they need. It's a 3 year deal so he's hedging his bets that the improvement materializes in the near term.

This is the only rationale that makes sense. Otherwise giving a guy who has 11 points and is -9 an 80% raise is completely bonkers.
- AlexF

I can definitely understand this argument, and I understand that both Benning/WD are way more qualified than me ( I'm not qualified at all and not suggesting they are poop), but I don't find that line of thought comforting.

I can definitely understand this argument, and I understand that both Benning/WD are way more qualified than me ( I'm not qualified at all and not suggesting they are poop), but I don't find that line of thought comforting.
- belcherbd

Agreed. It's not like every NHL GM is great either...jury is still out on Benning.

That and any one who doesn't clap when Benning farts is a mommy hugging crybaby, who doesn't appreciate that the canucks are in the playoffs....
- belcherbd

Way to twist things....ohh poor me, nobody wants to buy into my incestant whinning about everything, ad nauseam, it doesn't matter what the topic you need to challenge with vigour.