What exactly is a Front Office System?
- stackthepads

Bowman uses data to make his transactions. And he doesn't deviate from it for personal biases. He's explicitly said it has provided the organization with a competitive advantage. Yzerman is another one that uses data to cover everything from scouting, injury history, player transactions, etc. Shero didn't use data at all and went off of his intuition. Rutherford uses limited data from Karmanos but largely shoots from the hip as well. Botterill is supposed to be the business guy and should be providing the framework for their decisions in the FO but either they don't listen to him, or he is incompetent.

Hockey wouldn't exist in the first place if humans were so fragile that Doan's hit resulted in a concussion every time. So in your hypothetical situation, no, Bettman wouldn't make changes, because he'd be working for the NBA.
- Antilles

Can you hear that..................bzzzzzzzz................bzzzzzzzzzzz.................bzzzzzzzzzzz?

We needed Ehrhoff to get injured the game before he did. You can't put someone on LTIR with under 10 games remaining on the season. We are a flawed organization that does dumb things and can't catch any breaks.

Cant argue with that dude.

I am getting more and more pissed about this cap issue and the 5 D thing. IMO GMJR gots some splainin to do on that one. Major f-up IMO. Major f-up.

Here we are supposedly loaded with defensive depth. GMJR knows how fragile this team is. Yet, he spends every last dime to the cap. And now we have a gassed top 5 with decent depth players in WBS ready to play. Yet nothing we can do.

I've never seen a team have to play a guy short for multiple weeks. I think that directly factored into the Ottawa game and this game.
- 87_71_11_29

How is any GM suppose to predict 2 major injuries happening within 9 games of the end of the year. After the trade deadline we had a surplus of dmen and were debating who would be the 7th dman.
NO WAY any GM predicts 2 major pieces go down for the season by December.
People are really, really underestimating just how unlucky we have been this season.

Silver lining is, if we beat Buffalo tomorrow we are in and salary cap doesnt matter. We can carry a 23 man line up which means fresh legs for a team that has been playing under manned for a month is the most elite hockey league in the world. And as you said, and I agree it looks lately like we are gassed 1/2 way through the 3rd.

I say we play the trap and see what happens.

How is any GM suppose to predict 2 major injuries happening within 9 games of the end of the year. After the trade deadline we had a surplus of dmen and were debating who would be the 7th dman.
NO WAY any GM predicts 2 major pieces go down for the season by December.
People are really, really underestimating just how unlucky we have been this season.

Silver lining is, if we beat Buffalo tomorrow we are in and salary cap doesnt matter. We can carry a 23 man line up which means fresh legs for a team that has been playing under manned for a month is the most elite hockey league in the world. And as you said, and I agree it looks lately like we are gassed 1/2 way through the 3rd.

I say we play the trap and see what happens.
- stackthepads

Penguins have been "unlucky" for 6 years. Most injured team for the last 6 years. Also have outshot the opposing team in every elimination series since the SC winning series. How's that for luck?

shame that things like this happen. Even worse when it happens after the deadline. If Letang or Ehrhoff hit LTIR, we a.) have free range on the trade market and b.) would be able to call up whoever the hell we want right now.

p.s. that penalty on Downie might have been the worst call of the year. I get pissed at bad calls but I've never seen anything like that. You bet your ass if he hit him up high, thats also a penalty. I really don't mind him on this team but not in THIS NHL.

How is any GM suppose to predict 2 major injuries happening within 9 games of the end of the year. After the trade deadline we had a surplus of dmen and were debating who would be the 7th dman.
NO WAY any GM predicts 2 major pieces go down for the season by December.
People are really, really underestimating just how unlucky we have been this season.

Silver lining is, if we beat Buffalo tomorrow we are in and salary cap doesnt matter. We can carry a 23 man line up which means fresh legs for a team that has been playing under manned for a month is the most elite hockey league in the world. And as you said, and I agree it looks lately like we are gassed 1/2 way through the 3rd.

I say we play the trap and see what happens.
- stackthepads

Should have been doing it for weeks. Especially with the team so shorthanded. Teams have been blowing through the neutral zone for months. I don't understand why they didn't immediately start trapping in Ottawa the other night with a 3 goal lead.

Bowman uses data to make his transactions. And he doesn't deviate from it for personal biases. He's explicitly said it has provided the organization with a competitive advantage. Yzerman is another one that uses data to cover everything from scouting, injury history, player transactions, etc. Shero didn't use data at all and went off of his intuition. Rutherford uses limited data from Karmanos but largely shoots from the hip as well. Botterill is supposed to be the business guy and should be providing the framework for their decisions in the FO but either they don't listen to him, or he is incompetent.
- jfkst1

Thats not a system, you're saying that the FO should rely more on advanced stats. Ok fine, but Bowman didnt build the Chicago team you're praising, the core of that team was from the Tallon era.
Yzerman's decisions have yet to pan out, they look great on paper but so do we. Not many teams put as much stake in fancy stats yet because they arent proven, point in case are the Pens, we are dominating fancy stats right now and............

Penguins have been "unlucky" for 6 years. Most injured team for the last 6 years. Also have outshot the opposing team in every elimination series since the SC winning series. How's that for luck?
- jfkst1

Hockey Gods are not happy with us. We tanked twice and got some of the best hockey players to play the game, it came at the cost of constant injuries, and bad bounces.

I was joking a bit about the trap but now thinking about it...
Only 3 players ever score for our team, load up the top line
Crosby Malkin Honqvist -- they play super tempo hockey.

the rest of the team doesnt even think about crossing the center line, anyone tries to be a hero they sit. Just plant 4 guys in the neutral zone and the 5th is always 6' from Fleury.

Who's ok with me replacing MJ...Im okay with you guys forcing Bartley on me ala Tocchet.

Thats not a system, you're saying that the FO should rely more on advanced stats. Ok fine, but Bowman didnt build the Chicago team you're praising, the core of that team was from the Tallon era.
Yzerman's decisions have yet to pan out, they look great on paper but so do we. Not many teams put as much stake in fancy stats yet because they arent proven, point in case are the Pens, we are dominating fancy stats right now and............
- stackthepads

Bowman added pieces to the core and has kept them competitive and far more successful consistently than Shero or Rutherford have accomplished. We have a good possession team. Not a good production team. And it could definitely be more cost effective. Rutherford could have been upgrading that and ignored it. That's not "fancy stats." Rutherford ignoring data and believing he can better predict outcomes is flawed. And it will lead to poor outcomes as often as good outcomes. It won't move the organization in a positive direction.

For an organization that has a reputation for being rather 'secretive', it's interesting timing in releasing #58's fate; perhaps PR spin cycle at full speed. The message certainly doesn't translation into motivation, nor is it aspiring. So aside from scapegoating, why release this info after tonight's loss, and the four preceding ones? I'm sure the team was already in-the-know about his fate, so why inform the public one game away from completing a (don't call it a collapse) injury plagued, cap-strapped, lack of talent meandering season?

Literally?
- edmhatescal

It's true, saw the penguin. He actually had 3 anchors attached.

Hockey Gods are not happy with us. We tanked twice and got some of the best hockey players to play the game, it came at the cost of constant injuries, and bad bounces.
- stackthepads

The team tanked for Lemieux. They most certainly did not tank for Crosby. And even so, that's too deterministic for me to acquiesce with. And whatever transgressions they have for tanking was more than made up for in Lemieux's health issues.

Well at least you have a chance at winning the lottery.....Go Buffalo, the Oil will thank-you!!!

Just from an outsiders point of view. It may be time to re-evaluate the general look of this team.

Bad luck is one thing, but the Penguins have been too injury prone as a group for much longer than this year.

May be time to see what is out there for Malkin at the draft.

Just from an outsiders point of view. It may be time to re-evaluate the general look of this team.

Bad luck is one thing, but the Penguins have been too injury prone as a group for much longer than this year.

May be time to see what is out there for Malkin at the draft.
- flyer_nutter

Ownership doesnt want to move on from the core players. So even if there are merits in trading them, there's no chance in exploring that.

As far as the injuries go, it's gotten to practically a comical rate. I, like many, try to only go to games early in the season because otherwise everyone will be injured. They hired a new staff after Crosby's neck was misdiagnosed. Hopefully Roberts makes a difference in injury prevention.
It's pretty much impossible to not be an injury prone team when 3 out of the 4 core players are injury prone. Fleury is the only one that isn't.

Just from an outsiders point of view. It may be time to re-evaluate the general look of this team.

Bad luck is one thing, but the Penguins have been too injury prone as a group for much longer than this year.

May be time to see what is out there for Malkin at the draft.
- flyer_nutter

I'm sure the Oilers would offer you guys your pick back for Malkin.

Ownership doesnt want to move on from the core players. So even if there are merits in trading them, there's no chance in exploring that.

As far as the injuries go, it's gotten to practically a comical rate. I, like many, try to only go to games early in the season because otherwise everyone will be injured. They hired a new staff after Crosby's neck was misdiagnosed. Hopefully Roberts makes a difference in injury prevention.
It's pretty much impossible to not be an injury prone team when 3 out of the 4 core players are injury prone. Fleury is the only one that isn't.
- jfkst1

That's to me the biggest issue. Difficult to try and win the show when you have to be so fearful of injury.

Its unfortunate because I do believe they have the talent, but it may be time to stop blaming it on just "bad luck" that will end at some point. World isn't over though, a lot of teams would kill to be in the position the Penguins are in.

every game, assuming we make the playoffs, makes me pine for Kapanen more. He doesn't have to bring much, just use his wicked wrister and score a damn goal.

i didnt get to see any of the fan appreciation stuff since the game was on NHL network...how bad was it?

Penguins have been "unlucky" for 6 years. Most injured team for the last 6 years. Also have outshot the opposing team in every elimination series since the SC winning series. How's that for luck?
- jfkst1

Sounds like luck to me. It's not like every injured player has been Malkin or Crosby, and it's not like there are more than a handful of guys who have been on the team that entire time. The front office isn't handing out contracts to injury-prone guys--they just suddenly get repeatedly injured as soon as they step in the door.

Hope Sid wins the scoring race.

Just from an outsiders point of view. It may be time to re-evaluate the general look of this team.

Bad luck is one thing, but the Penguins have been too injury prone as a group for much longer than this year.

May be time to see what is out there for Malkin at the draft.
- flyer_nutter

Would love if they did this. And Letang.

I want to see the culture of a Crosby lead team without Malkin.

wow, per DKs article....pens were denied by the league for sending Pouliot to the AHL to recall another defenseman even though there is no written rule about it.