Does anyone realistically think this gets fixed in 1 year? 2 years?

That's why I want them to go back to good organizational fundamentals. Acquire draft picks in bulk. Make those picks. Develop those players.

Stop this nonsense of winning at all costs each year. It aint helping short term and it sure as hell aint helping long term.

You're not winning a Cup with a bunch of FA acquisitions making up your 3rd and 4th lines. Not happening. That's the position we're in and some are proposing as the solution. That will continue to fail.

All good teams have top end talent. Not all good teams have good bottom level talent on cheap contracts. That's the difference between 100pts and 100pts and a Cup winner.

Does anyone realistically think this gets fixed in 1 year? 2 years?

That's why I want them to go back to good organizational fundamentals. Acquire draft picks in bulk. Make those picks. Develop those players.

Stop this nonsense of winning at all costs each year. It aint helping short term and it sure as hell aint helping long term.

You're not winning a Cup with a bunch of FA acquisitions making up your 3rd and 4th lines. Not happening. That's the position we're in and some are proposing as the solution. That will continue to fail.

All good teams have top end talent. Not all good teams have good bottom level talent on cheap contracts. That's the difference between 100pts and 100pts and a Cup winner.
- 87_71_11_29

Agreed 100% that's why you deal Malkin for got players under 25. Than continue to keep you 1,2,3 round picks the next 2-3 years... By the time this ship is righted Malkim/Crosby will be out of their prime. So get assests while you still can.

If changes need to be made, especially to clear some cap room and bring in new blood, who do Pens fans want traded first?
- MnGump

They basically have six guys who can be traded to clear cap space: Scuderi, Sutter, Spaling, Kunitz, Perron and Lovejoy. IMO that would also the desired order. Not much to get excited about.

Soo... Let me get this straight. Everyone is calling for a rebuild other than 87, 71, 58, 29 and 72? Yeah, didn't we do this last year? More than half of our roster are new players. I do agree that there is some dead weight here on the roster, but what do you expect when we have zero cap space?

Look at how rosters are set up around the league, the cap is more spread out. Go look at the Islanders for example. The Capitals, the Blues, the Hawks (it's going to catch them in a year or two), the Preds, the Lightning, hell almost every team. The Ducks are pretty much the only exception of cap being spread.

Malkin can bring us two top level guys with his cap, or three 3 million guys. Two high level players have two times the chance to score than Geno does.

Malkin + Sutter for Max P + Galchenyuk + Gallagher. We would have three COMPLETE lines, while our fourth line can be filled in house or through FA or slot downs, while still being better than what we have now by a long shot. This below is with resignings and with Dupes not playing. We have plenty of room with Geno, Sutter, Martin and Hoffs cap gone. Hopefully Scuds can be bought out too.

Max-Sid-Horn
Perron-Galch-Gallagher
Kunitz-Winnik-BB/Comeau
Spaling/Downie/depth FAs/Rust/Wilson/BB/Comeau

Letang-Maatta
Lovejoy-Pouliot
Cole-FA/Dumoulin/Harrington


I think the days of 87 and 71 may come to an end soon. Maybe not this year, but a better chance next year if this happens again. We have put ourselves into a hole by trading all of our picks the past few years for rentals that didn't work out instead of drafting and developing home grown cheap talent. Next year I wouldn't be surprised if we trade more of our picks either. It's just a never ending cycle. We can't rely on 87 and 71 too carry the hole team when barely have any help.

So who are we going to make look like the next Patrick Roy tonight? Who's tending for Buffalo?

Youre delusional if you think any GM is going to keep salary in reserve just in case we have 4 D Men out within the last 10 games. The odds of that happening are probably very low. We just seem to have the best of luck lately.
- thickman1178

As a GM, you're always supposed to be prepared for whatever injuries might occur. That is 100% JR's fault. There should always be money in the bank for emergency callups.

Agreed 100% that's why you deal Malkin for got players under 25. Than continue to keep you 1,2,3 round picks the next 2-3 years... By the time this ship is righted Malkim/Crosby will be out of their prime. So get assests while you still can.
- Willaged

No.

Regardless of tonight's outcome, serious changes will be made in the offseason.

Soo... Let me get this straight. Everyone is calling for a rebuild other than 87, 71, 58, 29 and 72? Yeah, didn't we do this last year? More than half of our roster are new players. I do agree that there is some dead weight here on the roster, but what do you expect when we have zero cap space?

Look at how rosters are set up around the league, the cap is more spread out. Go look at the Islanders for example. The Capitals, the Blues, the Hawks (it's going to catch them in a year or two), the Preds, the Lightning, hell almost every team. The Ducks are pretty much the only exception of cap being spread.

Malkin can bring us two top level guys with his cap, or three 3 million guys. Two high level players have two times the chance to score than Geno does.

Malkin + Sutter for Max P + Galchenyuk + Gallagher. We would have three COMPLETE lines, while our fourth line can be filled in house or through FA or slot downs, while still being better than what we have now by a long shot. This below is with resignings and with Dupes not playing. We have plenty of room with Geno, Sutter, Martin and Hoffs cap gone. Hopefully Scuds can be bought out too.

Max-Sid-Horn
Perron-Galch-Gallagher
Kunitz-Winnik-BB/Comeau
Spaling/Downie/depth FAs/Rust/Wilson/BB/Comeau

Letang-Maatta
Lovejoy-Pouliot
Cole-FA/Dumoulin/Harrington


I think the days of 87 and 71 may come to an end soon. Maybe not this year, but a better chance next year if this happens again. We have put ourselves into a hole by trading all of our picks the past few years for rentals that didn't work out instead of drafting and developing home grown cheap talent. Next year I wouldn't be surprised if we trade more of our picks either. It's just a never ending cycle. We can't rely on 87 and 71 too carry the hole team when barely have any help.
- znagle

If we're going to play trade Malkin find another team instead of MTL. With Malkin they'd be as top heavy as we are now....subban $9mil, price $6.5mil, markov $5.75mil, plekanek $5mil

If we're going to play trade Malkin find another team instead of MTL. With Malkin they'd be as top heavy as we are now....subban $9mil, price $6.5mil, markov $5.75mil, plekanek $5mil
- willi

They'd clear enough with those coming back, it's just an example but that would be the type of package I would want in return.

Then youre just as stupid as the last guy. Why the hell would you give up a guy who averages over a point per game? You think Malkin is the one who drags this team down? 90% of the games, he plays with more heart and passion than anyone.
- thickman1178

His return would create a better team.

Soo... Let me get this straight. Everyone is calling for a rebuild other than 87, 71, 58, 29 and 72? Yeah, didn't we do this last year? More than half of our roster are new players. I do agree that there is some dead weight here on the roster, but what do you expect when we have zero cap space?

Look at how rosters are set up around the league, the cap is more spread out. Go look at the Islanders for example. The Capitals, the Blues, the Hawks (it's going to catch them in a year or two), the Preds, the Lightning, hell almost every team. The Ducks are pretty much the only exception of cap being spread.

Malkin can bring us two top level guys with his cap, or three 3 million guys. Two high level players have two times the chance to score than Geno does.

Malkin + Sutter for Max P + Galchenyuk + Gallagher. We would have three COMPLETE lines, while our fourth line can be filled in house or through FA or slot downs, while still being better than what we have now by a long shot. This below is with resignings and with Dupes not playing. We have plenty of room with Geno, Sutter, Martin and Hoffs cap gone. Hopefully Scuds can be bought out too.

Max-Sid-Horn
Perron-Galch-Gallagher
Kunitz-Winnik-BB/Comeau
Spaling/Downie/depth FAs/Rust/Wilson/BB/Comeau

Letang-Maatta
Lovejoy-Pouliot
Cole-FA/Dumoulin/Harrington


I think the days of 87 and 71 may come to an end soon. Maybe not this year, but a better chance next year if this happens again. We have put ourselves into a hole by trading all of our picks the past few years for rentals that didn't work out instead of drafting and developing home grown cheap talent. Next year I wouldn't be surprised if we trade more of our picks either. It's just a never ending cycle. We can't rely on 87 and 71 too carry the hole team when barely have any help.
- znagle

I think you're missing a critical element in my proposal for a mini-rebuild. I'm proposing letting most of our current FA's walk, turn Kunitz, Sutter, Spaling, and perhaps even Perron into draft picks, wait out Scuds and Duper deals, fill in with FA's and WBS guys for a year or 2, sacrifice those 2 years, and hope you're better in the long run with a pipeline of talent available for 87/71's last 5 years. At that point, hopefully your new core can carry more of the load. Think Detroit over the years. Always having young blood complimenting the older core parts.

Why on earth would Mtl do your proposed deal? Ive thought that same deal over the years and cant think of one reason wny they would do it.

Soo... Let me get this straight. Everyone is calling for a rebuild other than 87, 71, 58, 29 and 72? Yeah, didn't we do this last year? More than half of our roster are new players. I do agree that there is some dead weight here on the roster, but what do you expect when we have zero cap space?

Look at how rosters are set up around the league, the cap is more spread out. Go look at the Islanders for example. The Capitals, the Blues, the Hawks (it's going to catch them in a year or two), the Preds, the Lightning, hell almost every team. The Ducks are pretty much the only exception of cap being spread.

Malkin can bring us two top level guys with his cap, or three 3 million guys. Two high level players have two times the chance to score than Geno does.

Malkin + Sutter for Max P + Galchenyuk + Gallagher. We would have three COMPLETE lines, while our fourth line can be filled in house or through FA or slot downs, while still being better than what we have now by a long shot. This below is with resignings and with Dupes not playing. We have plenty of room with Geno, Sutter, Martin and Hoffs cap gone. Hopefully Scuds can be bought out too.

Max-Sid-Horn
Perron-Galch-Gallagher
Kunitz-Winnik-BB/Comeau
Spaling/Downie/depth FAs/Rust/Wilson/BB/Comeau

Letang-Maatta
Lovejoy-Pouliot
Cole-FA/Dumoulin/Harrington


I think the days of 87 and 71 may come to an end soon. Maybe not this year, but a better chance next year if this happens again. We have put ourselves into a hole by trading all of our picks the past few years for rentals that didn't work out instead of drafting and developing home grown cheap talent. Next year I wouldn't be surprised if we trade more of our picks either. It's just a never ending cycle. We can't rely on 87 and 71 too carry the hole team when barely have any help.
- znagle

This is taken from an Adam Gretz article..

"Just look at how much the past six Stanley Cup winners had allocated to just five players.
Team (Year) Top-5 Cap Hits NHL Salary Cap Percentage
Detroit Red Wings (2007-08) $27.9 $50.3 55%
Pittsburgh Penguins (2008-09) $26.5 $56.7 48%
Chicago Blackhawks (2009-10) $25.5 $56.8 45%
Boston Bruins (2010-11) $25.2 $59.4 43%
Los Angeles Kings (2011-12) $27.3 $64.3 43%
Chicago Blackhawks (2012-13) $30.1 $60.0 50%



Three of this year's Conference Finalists (Chicago, Los Angeles and the New York Rangers) are at 47 percent.

Again: This is a lot of money.

This is also where a teams ability to draft and develop its own players, as well as the ability of the front office and pro scouting staff to find undervalued and overlooked players in free agency or trades, becomes so important."


Now the Pens kind of screwed the pooch in the drafting and developing its own players, but this team CAN still be fixed by undervalued and overlooked players in free agency (Downie/Comeau). The thing that hurts the Pens is they pretty much have to fill the REST of their roster with FAs, thankfully the Pens D-core looks pretty "set" right now, which means they really only have to worry about finding some bottom six players... again. But hopefully they go in a different direction and not to the Adams/Lapierre's of the league. They bring nothing, if they went the RIGHT direction, this team could be "fixed" in 2 years, easily IMO. And that fix does not, and should not ever start with trading Evgeni Malkin. I'd go as far to say that Malkin is more important than Sid on this team...

One final time...

Pens are not trading Malkin or Crosby. Any other player I could see. Not those 2 unless they demanded out.

I would actually be in favor of moving 71 for the right deal. I'd explore moving 58 first but that's another discussion.

But by doing so, you would instantaneously devalue your franchise by moving 71. Even if the deal made you a better team.

Ahh seems everyone is beginning to see the light. This will never win with two superstars..of which neither can remain healthy for a full season. Trading malkin..even though I love the player...needs to happen. This team is bare bones for young good players. I still maintain that we should have moved geno instead of staal. Who wouldnt love jordan back and the haul we could have got for malkin then would make dumolin and sutter look like bags of used pucks.

I have no idea if a team would even consider it. But I still would lobby the team with the number one pick to give it up for geno. I think we could make a block buster that would elminate pieces we dont want and geno for that pick and a few decent add ons. For me losing the 9 per year off the cap is more valuable than what we get back immediately. It opens the door for more trades..more acquisitions via free agency. This literaly blows up our team and allows a new management team to come in fresh...ish...and place their mark on the team.

Ahh seems everyone is beginning to see the light. This will never win with two superstars..of which neither can remain healthy for a full season. Trading malkin..even though I love the player...needs to happen. This team is bare bones for young good players. I still maintain that we should have moved geno instead of staal. Who wouldnt love jordan back and the haul we could have got for malkin then would make dumolin and sutter look like bags of used pucks.

I have no idea if a team would even consider it. But I still would lobby the team with the number one pick to give it up for geno. I think we could make a block buster that would elminate pieces we dont want and geno for that pick and a few decent add ons. For me losing the 9 per year off the cap is more valuable than what we get back immediately. It opens the door for more trades..more acquisitions via free agency. This literaly blows up our team and allows a new management team to come in fresh...ish...and place their mark on the team.
- taleisyreXIII

Sounds pretty damn stupid if you ask me.

Sounds pretty damn stupid if you ask me.
- j.boyd919

Why..explain! Enlighten me how our current way of conducting business is working so well. I would love to hear how we ever will win anything beyond a playoff round doing what we have done for 6 years. This is not working..the most plausible way to predict the future is to look to the past. If it aint working now..it wont ever work.

Scuderi.. Lol.. But no one really believes his contract is moveable.

Kunitz- but his return won't be big enough

Sutter- but will we be able to truly upgrade the 3C POSITION?


Not the guy Pens fans want to move, but the only guy to move that will clear space and bring a good return back is Malkin. IMO, it's move Malkin, or remain status quo and tinker what you can with outgoing/ incoming UFAS....
- Willaged

If there's one thing every sports fan knows it's the team that gets the best player wins the trade 100 times out of 100

Kings got Gretzky and went to a cup final while Edmonton was mediocre

Boston traded Seguin and it blew up in their faces

There is no return high enough for a player like Malkin..... 5 first and second round picks..... if you take on roster players they better not cost more at any point than a total of 9.5 million or the trade is pointless IMO

If there's one thing every sports fan knows it's the team that gets the best player wins the trade 100 times out of 100

Kings got Gretzky and went to a cup final while Edmonton was mediocre

Boston traded Seguin and it blew up in their faces

There is no return high enough for a player like Malkin..... 5 first and second round picks..... if you take on roster players they better not cost more at any point than a total of 9.5 million or the trade is pointless IMO
- Yonk1216

Edmonton won a cup...kings never did. This is a bad example. I do not subscribe to this philosophy at all. At the time of the trade..eric lindross was the best player...colorado won cups because of that trade. Toronto go kessel..he was the best player...because it was just drafts...those drafts became stars..seguin and hamilton. It can eaaily go both ways. Being afraid to make moves or to think out of the box will never result in anything changing for the pens.

Soo... Let me get this straight. Everyone is calling for a rebuild other than 87, 71, 58, 29 and 72? Yeah, didn't we do this last year? More than half of our roster are new players. I do agree that there is some dead weight here on the roster, but what do you expect when we have zero cap space?

Look at how rosters are set up around the league, the cap is more spread out. Go look at the Islanders for example. The Capitals, the Blues, the Hawks (it's going to catch them in a year or two), the Preds, the Lightning, hell almost every team. The Ducks are pretty much the only exception of cap being spread.

Malkin can bring us two top level guys with his cap, or three 3 million guys. Two high level players have two times the chance to score than Geno does.

Malkin + Sutter for Max P + Galchenyuk + Gallagher. We would have three COMPLETE lines, while our fourth line can be filled in house or through FA or slot downs, while still being better than what we have now by a long shot. This below is with resignings and with Dupes not playing. We have plenty of room with Geno, Sutter, Martin and Hoffs cap gone. Hopefully Scuds can be bought out too.

Max-Sid-Horn
Perron-Galch-Gallagher
Kunitz-Winnik-BB/Comeau
Spaling/Downie/depth FAs/Rust/Wilson/BB/Comeau

Letang-Maatta
Lovejoy-Pouliot
Cole-FA/Dumoulin/Harrington


I think the days of 87 and 71 may come to an end soon. Maybe not this year, but a better chance next year if this happens again. We have put ourselves into a hole by trading all of our picks the past few years for rentals that didn't work out instead of drafting and developing home grown cheap talent. Next year I wouldn't be surprised if we trade more of our picks either. It's just a never ending cycle. We can't rely on 87 and 71 too carry the hole team when barely have any help.
- znagle

I like where your head is at but no way Montreal makes that trade.

Edmonton won a cup...kings never did. This is a bad example. I do not subscribe to this philosophy at all. At the time of the trade..eric lindross was the best player...colorado won cups because of that trade. Toronto go kessel..he was the best player...because it was just drafts...those drafts became stars..seguin and hamilton. It can eaaily go both ways. Being afraid to make moves or to think out of the box will never result in anything changing for the pens.
- taleisyreXIII

Agreed. I'd like to see a traditional 1st 2nd 3rd line instead of trying to balance two 1sts and 2 4ths basically.

If there's one thing every sports fan knows it's the team that gets the best player wins the trade 100 times out of 100

Kings got Gretzky and went to a cup final while Edmonton was mediocre

Boston traded Seguin and it blew up in their faces

There is no return high enough for a player like Malkin..... 5 first and second round picks..... if you take on roster players they better not cost more at any point than a total of 9.5 million or the trade is pointless IMO
- Yonk1216

Kings got Gretzky - and he got to the cup final once....never won again.

Edmonton, after Gretzky, lost in the semis the year following; won the cup the year after that; lost in the semis again the following year; and then lost in the conference finals.....

If Edmonton became mediocre - Was Pittsburgh ever good????

So who wants to read something funny... a post from an "intelligent Penguins fan" I saw.


OKAY, Every Penguins fan needs to read this and share it before tomorrow. JOHNSTON PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD PLEASE PUT Blake Comeau back on the second line with Malkin, second line looked awful without him and put Perron back on the first line with Crosby and Hornqvist. And lastly put one of the best penalty killers in the game aka Winnik on D, so we have 6 Dmen and lines that actually produce. NEWS FLASH COACH, 5 D MEN IS NOT WORKING! IF YOU AGREE, LIKE IT, TWEET, SHARE IT!


So many things that are embarrassingly stupid.

They basically have six guys who can be traded to clear cap space: Scuderi, Sutter, Spaling, Kunitz, Perron and Lovejoy. IMO that would also the desired order. Not much to get excited about.
- Thunderbolt

Ok, sounds like this is shared stream of consciousness by most Pens fans but why not consider moving Crosby? I know that's sacrilegious to even mutter but...

He's getting older, he's possibly a concussion away from ending his career, he's not quite the same player he was before his string of head shots and I believe he would bring in the most bang while clearing a ton of cap space.

I mean just consider the fact that the Pens have failed to do much of anything in the post season for several years with him, maybe bringing in a couple top prospects and a couple top 3 players might give a better return?!

Just a thought.

Ok, sounds like this is shared stream of consciousness by most Pens fans but why not consider moving Crosby? I know that's sacrilegious to even mutter but...

He's getting older, he's possibly a concussion away from ending his career, he's not quite the same player he was before his string of head shots and I believe he would bring in the most bang while clearing a ton of cap space.

I mean just consider the fact that the Pens have failed to do much of anything in the post season for several years with him, maybe bringing in a couple top prospects and a couple top 3 players might give a better return?!

Just a thought.
- MnGump

You must be new... we've kicked around the idea and theory near a thousand times this year.