Edmonton won a cup...kings never did. This is a bad example. I do not subscribe to this philosophy at all. At the time of the trade..eric lindross was the best player...colorado won cups because of that trade. Toronto go kessel..he was the best player...because it was just drafts...those drafts became stars..seguin and hamilton. It can eaaily go both ways. Being afraid to make moves or to think out of the box will never result in anything changing for the pens.
- taleisyreXIII

So we ask Malkin who he wants to be traded to... then go to those teams and ask what they are willing to give up..... they lowball us and we either take a deal for the sake of change or end up right where we are today.

Unless we're willing to stay put unless the deal is amazing, there's no real reason to think we would make out on said deal.

You must be new... we've kicked around the idea and theory near a thousand times this year.
- Guile

I'm sure... I was just trying to make sure I didn't get murdered for being insensitively looney!

I think moving either Malkin or Crosby would require some sort of multi team deal for Pittsburgh to get the maximum return.

If there's one thing every sports fan knows it's the team that gets the best player wins the trade 100 times out of 100

Kings got Gretzky and went to a cup final while Edmonton was mediocre

Boston traded Seguin and it blew up in their faces

There is no return high enough for a player like Malkin..... 5 first and second round picks..... if you take on roster players they better not cost more at any point than a total of 9.5 million or the trade is pointless IMO
- Yonk1216

so wrong
sports fans love their clichés, but they rarely hold any truth

edm mediocre? they won another cup.
kings never did.
I can think of literally dozens of trades where your contention is flat out wrong

Does anyone realistically think this gets fixed in 1 year? 2 years?

That's why I want them to go back to good organizational fundamentals. Acquire draft picks in bulk. Make those picks. Develop those players.

Stop this nonsense of winning at all costs each year. It aint helping short term and it sure as hell aint helping long term.

You're not winning a Cup with a bunch of FA acquisitions making up your 3rd and 4th lines. Not happening. That's the position we're in and some are proposing as the solution. That will continue to fail.

All good teams have top end talent. Not all good teams have good bottom level talent on cheap contracts. That's the difference between 100pts and 100pts and a Cup winner.
- 87_71_11_29

penguins are at an unsustainable level right now. the analogy that i use to describe this organization is when a company continues to pump external money funds into their company with no sales or revenue to keep up with their growth.

the penguins are the same way. every year they get players in the offseason but still have holes on their roster. we then have to spend draft picks and prospects to fill these holes because we have no chance of filling the holes internally from the AHL.

thats the problem and its a continued cycle until you fix it.

as someone said in a past blog, the penguins dont have a core problem, financially or talent wise. the penguins are right in line with what a core's average % of cap taken up is for a stanley cup winner. our problem is we have no depth and too much aging players on this team who make too much money.

Um that aint delusional dude. Shero always spent to about $1mill UNDER the cap each year for just such a reason.

You ever see any other teams in this sitch? For this long a period?

GMJR gambled and he lost.

Terrible mgmt. If you think otherwise, you're not delusional...you just don't know what you're talking about.
- 87_71_11_29

Every GM in the league tries to stay at least $1M under the cap WITH a 13th forward and 7th defenseman on the roster.

I would try to make Malkin the #1 Center on the #1 line with the best wingers

I would try to convert Crosby to a more shutdown, matchup center that can score (Stevie Y in his later years, Ron Francis, Patrice Bergeron, Jonathan Towes type player) He can drive possession, produce points but with different types of wingers. Might not win many more Art Ross's, but would probably win more cups. This line would match up against the other teams best line.

Find a legit 3rd line defensive center. No flash, just a guy that can center a line that goes out and doesnt get scored against. This guy should be an elite PKer too

Roll with all the young defensemen, let them take their lumps, lets see what we really have

Why..explain! Enlighten me how our current way of conducting business is working so well. I would love to hear how we ever will win anything beyond a playoff round doing what we have done for 6 years. This is not working..the most plausible way to predict the future is to look to the past. If it aint working now..it wont ever work.
- taleisyreXIII

Because Crosby and Malkin are not, have not been, and will never be the problem with the Penguins, if anything, these 2 players are masking the deficiencies of the team. By trading one of them, a proven top 5 talent in the WORLD, you are trying to acquire draft picks, that likely won't contribute for a good 3-5 years, thus trying to be "competitive" in Crosby's waning years of his career. I personally believe Malkin is a more dynamic player than Crosby when he wants to be. When Malkin is out, Crosby is good, but not nearly as dominant as when Crosby is out and Malkin is dominant (IMO). If this team had the right management that went the right way in the FIRST place. Instead of signing Nick Spaling, Christian Ehrhoff, and Greiss; and even Brandon Sutter, that's 10 million right there. Could have used Zatkoff as backup, Signed Jagr at 3-4mil, Signed Winnik at 2 mil... Should have kept Arcobello, should have kept Klinkhammer, should have kept Goc... anyways that's last year... let's move on to next year and see what they are working with...

With Downie, Bennett, Adams, Comeau, Lapierre, Winnik, Martin, Ehrhoff, Greiss off the books... that's 10.85. Let's hope and assume that they can find SOMEONE to take Sutter and Spaling (2.2 and 3.3) Even if its for late round picks, who cares? We know they don't fit here. 16.35 Million

Starts you off with
72-87-9
14-71-39
empty 3rd line
empty 4th line

and let's be real here, the 3rd and 4th lines ARE the problems of the Penguins, we all know it's the depth. So start FRESH. Throw 4 million at Jagr, get him to sign in Pitt. Try to resign Comeau at 2 Mill. Bennett hasn't earned poop so his qualifying offer shouldn't be over 2 mil IMO. Try to resign Winnik (I thought he's been pretty good in a 3rd line role.) Look at Carl Soderberg. 6'3" as a new 3rd line center. Use Bobby Farnham, I know he's not "good" but he hits everything that moves and that can wear teams down, look at Matt Martin and Cal Clutterbuck (I wanted him in black and gold for YEARS.) Maybe, just maybe, reach out to Justin Williams and see what kind of years/money he is looking for. If a deal can be had for 2 years... try to work something out. Dude is clutch and is still scoring goals. And I understand he's 33. But the guy can flat out play, age is just a number if you can still produce, and if it's a 2 year deal, that isn't too restricting on the Penguins. Maybe look to Derek Roy or Eric Fehr.

Hornqvist - Crosby - Perron
Kunitz - Malkin - Jagr
Bennett - Soderberg - Williams
Winnik - Roy - Comeau

Letang - Maatta
Pouliot - Cole
Lovejoy - Dumo/Harrington
Scuderi

Fleury
Zatkoff


Like I said, these numbers are all hypothetical, who knows if the guys would even sign for this or not. But I think they are fair offers, and it almost totally revamps the bottom 6. I did crazy rough calculations and that ruster can be had for like.. close to 70 million. Assuming the cap goes up a couple million, they could be in even better shape, what's it at now? 72 million? A good roster CAN be constructed, and while other teams have a lot of their young guys playing forwards, our former regime has drafted defensemen and that is where out young guys can make a difference being on entry level contracts.


EDIT: OH and GET a coach that has some balls. Tortorella/Babcock/Laviolette style. Someone who shows some emotion and doesn't look like a deer in head lights.

I would try to make Malkin the #1 Center on the #1 line with the best wingers

I would try to convert Crosby to a more shutdown, matchup center that can score (Stevie Y in his later years, Ron Francis, Patrice Bergeron, Jonathan Towes type player) He can drive possession, produce points but with different types of wingers. Might not win many more Art Ross's, but would probably win more cups. This line would match up against the other teams best line.

Find a legit 3rd line defensive center. No flash, just a guy that can center a line that goes out and doesnt get scored against. This guy should be an elite PKer too

Roll with all the young defensemen, let them take their lumps, lets see what we really have
- RoloTahmasee

Really like that idea, a lot. And Crosby would do it, if it meant winning.

It will take one more year of self talk, everyone saying it will get better, before the Pens faithful grasp that the core of this team just gets another year older and farther removed from peak performance.

Nobody has any illusions that this team is any longer capable of an extended Cup run. Next year will likely prove the same. If nothing changes, nothing changes. Trading Malkin this June (draft week) would produce a rich harvest of picks and prospects. The harvest will be reduced significantly if the Pens go another year on this downward cycle.

The smart thing to do is to move Malkin to a young team that is ready to go on a Cup run over the next few years (eg Islanders). But we all know it won't happen. Fans and management would rather watch the decaying carcass of a once great team rather than make the hard choices essential to moving forward. There is way too much loyalty to the memory of what it used to be like.
- spatso

You don't just trade Malkin for picks are prospects. This isn't a trade involving Jaromir. Those days are over. Say, its Ottawa, you will be shelling out Stone, plus prospects, plus high picks. At least one of those players is a young talented forward with term and proven.

You don't just trade Malkin for picks are prospects. This isn't a trade involving Jaromir. Those days are over. Say, its Ottawa, you will be shelling out Stone, plus prospects, plus high picks. At least one of those players is a young talented forward with term and proven.
- Oneonta Penguin

If you deal Malkin I'd expect a package containing a legitimate top 6 forward, the team's top two prospects (both of which are borderline NHL ready), a 1st round pick, and a 3rd round pick. If not more.

Every GM in the league tries to stay at least $1M under the cap WITH a 13th forward and 7th defenseman on the roster.
- rangerdanger94

no question Rutherford and Johnston have messed this up. Johnston continuing to dress both Bennett and Adams when you could have had one sit and move up our time table for calling up our emergency call up.

rutherford made a mistake talent wise Despres for Lovejoy, but i would assume lovejoy makes more so financially he also made a mistake.

If you deal Malkin I'd expect a package containing a legitimate top 6 forward, the team's top two prospects (both of which are borderline NHL ready), a 1st round pick, and a 3rd round pick. If not more.
- rangerdanger94

I think trading malkin would be HUGE mistake. but if you had to trade him i think you would be looking for:

An above average, 2-way 2nd line Center
A younger top 6 forward
1st round pick (top 20)
2016 1st round pick
Current NHL prospect (either on the team now or NHL ready)

even then. it's a lot and i think the problem is no team is going to want to part with that kind of package. i think the major think is malkin has no interest in leaving while crosby is here. he has said that he wants crosby to be the guy so he doesnt face the bulk of the media like he would if he was traded to another team. so we can debate his value all we want, i just think it's a moot point because i dont see it happening.

Rutherford winning moves

Acquiring Hornqvist
Signing Downie for 1 million
Signing Comeau for 700k
Perron for only a 1st (provided the 1st doesnt end up the McDavid pick)
Bortuzzo for Ian Cole

Rutherford losing moves

Only getting Hornqvist in the Neal Trade
Taking Spaling instead of a prospect/pick and paying him 2.2 million
Only a 1 year deal for Comeau on the cheap
Only a 1 year deal for Downie on the cheap
Despres for Lovejoy
Signing Ehrhoff (money better spent in top 6)
Not trading Sutter
Trading Goc for Lapierre
No significant picks in 2015 draft and a roster full of holes
Capping out the team and only being able to dress 5 D
Mike Johnston as coach


Can't say I didn't see this happening.... Its like Lemieux/Burkle weren't paying attention to what happened in Carolina in Old man Ruths last few years

-Ward Contract
-Semin Contract
-Staal trade (assets for 1 year early acquisition)
-A roster in the bottom of the league for multiple seasons

i really do worry that this team will try to move malkin.

Can we say that Pouliott is healthy but we are sending him to WBS and we promise that he won't re-aggravate his injury on the ride. *wink, wink, nudge, nudge, know what I mean.*
- Thunderbolt

We should be able to demote him and have him play like 4 minutes. nothing wrong with that right? Its desperation, but clearly the big club's needs right now warrant it

sens winning 2-1

I like where your head is at but no way Montreal makes that trade.
- brienstel

Galchenyuk has been disappointing, no? Not sure I'd do it even from the Pens perspective.

I think trading malkin would be HUGE mistake. but if you had to trade him i think you would be looking for:

An above average, 2-way 2nd line Center
A younger top 6 forward
1st round pick (top 20)
2016 1st round pick
Current NHL prospect (either on the team now or NHL ready)

even then. it's a lot and i think the problem is no team is going to want to part with that kind of package. i think the major think is malkin has no interest in leaving while crosby is here. he has said that he wants crosby to be the guy so he doesnt face the bulk of the media like he would if he was traded to another team. so we can debate his value all we want, i just think it's a moot point because i dont see it happening.
- SuperHenderson13

So, instead, keep Malkin ... have no depth and continue to get early exits in the play-offs because we have zero depth and no cap room?

I get the thought of trading Malkin is a dangerous thing. However, the way this franchise handles business, its a fail. We need to get younger, deeper and have more balance. In addition to this, we need to replenish the farm. We have nothing in Wilkes Barre from a forward standpoint absent one 18 year old winger.

I truly think the FO needs to think long and hard about where this franchise is headed. It's not in that good of shape from a talent wise standpoint. We have two studs; a solid goalie; Horny and a fragile as hell defenseman making over seven million per. We don't have anything under the age of 25 at forward to rely on. Ottawa has Stone and a few more; Columbus has Jenner and a few more ... everyone has at least two. We have Beau Bennett.

Whether people want to admit it or not, this franchise is trending downward with two studs. You don't make a deal like Pittsburgh made to unload Jagr. However, if someone comes with a pretty significant offer that brings balance, younger talent, more depth and oh yes, high draft picks, you have to seriously consider it.

People saying you don't trade Malkin or Crosby ... they will have similar results as we continue year after year because the depth won't be there and the "win now" mentality continues in which we have no picks to supplement out deficiencies. Yep, that second and seventh round pick in the deepest draft in recent history helps!

I think trading malkin would be HUGE mistake. but if you had to trade him i think you would be looking for:

An above average, 2-way 2nd line Center
A younger top 6 forward
1st round pick (top 20)
2016 1st round pick
Current NHL prospect (either on the team now or NHL ready)

even then. it's a lot and i think the problem is no team is going to want to part with that kind of package. i think the major think is malkin has no interest in leaving while crosby is here. he has said that he wants crosby to be the guy so he doesnt face the bulk of the media like he would if he was traded to another team. so we can debate his value all we want, i just think it's a moot point because i dont see it happening.
- SuperHenderson13

I'd want Backes+Tarasenko at the minimum.
Or some combo of Duchene/Mackinnon/ROR
Kesler+Palmieri+Maroon+1st doesnt even get me that excited

I just dont think any of those are realistic

So, instead, keep Malkin ... have no depth and continue to get early exits in the play-offs because we have zero depth and no cap room?

I get the thought of trading Malkin is a dangerous thing. However, the way this franchise handles business, its a fail. We need to get younger, deeper and have more balance. In addition to this, we need to replenish the farm. We have nothing in Wilkes Barre from a forward standpoint absent one 18 year old winger.

I truly think the FO needs to think long and hard about where this franchise is headed. It's not in that good of shape from a talent wise standpoint. We have two studs; a solid goalie; Horny and a fragile as hell defenseman making over seven million per. We don't have anything under the age of 25 at forward to rely on. Ottawa has Stone and a few more; Columbus has Jenner and a few more ... everyone has at least two. We have Beau Bennett.
- Oneonta Penguin

What about Johansen+Jenner+ ?

I'd want Backes+Tarasenko at the minimum.
Or some combo of Duchene/Mackinnon/ROR
Kesler+Palmieri+Maroon+1st doesnt even get me that excited

I just dont think any of those are realistic
- YouMeAndDupuis9

No on ROR. The guy is a selfish hog.

So, instead, keep Malkin ... have no depth and continue to get early exits in the play-offs because we have zero depth and no cap room?

I get the thought of trading Malkin is a dangerous thing. However, the way this franchise handles business, its a fail. We need to get younger, deeper and have more balance. In addition to this, we need to replenish the farm. We have nothing in Wilkes Barre from a forward standpoint absent one 18 year old winger.

I truly think the FO needs to think long and hard about where this franchise is headed. It's not in that good of shape from a talent wise standpoint. We have two studs; a solid goalie; Horny and a fragile as hell defenseman making over seven million per. We don't have anything under the age of 25 at forward to rely on. Ottawa has Stone and a few more; Columbus has Jenner and a few more ... everyone has at least two. We have Beau Bennett.
- Oneonta Penguin

You can have Malkin and have depth if you can evaluate the talent you are going to sign during free agency correctly. But when you make mistakes to the point where you employ Craig Adams, Max Lapierre, Steven Downie, Nick Spaling, and Brandon Sutter. That is you're problem, you sign 5 different players than those 5 (and I like Downie on this team.) You're depth gets better. Overpaying Spaling and Sutter was a waste, when that money could have been used to sign depth players to 2-way contracts.

I agree Ehrhoff was more a luxury than a necessity, and that 4 million could have been used to sign 1 or 2 solid bottom 6 guys, and that is probably the route they should have went. But moving Malkin does not have to and should not happen. Play the kids, play the kids, deal with the growing pains. Use the money you save on their ELCs to sign depth guys. There you have it.

You can have Malkin and have depth if you can evaluate the talent you are going to sign during free agency correctly. But when you make mistakes to the point where you employ Craig Adams, Max Lapierre, Steven Downie, Nick Spaling, and Brandon Sutter. That is you're problem, you sign 5 different players than those 5 (and I like Downie on this team.) You're depth gets better. Overpaying Spaling and Sutter was a waste, when that money could have been used to sign depth players to 2-way contracts.

I agree Ehrhoff was more a luxury than a necessity, and that 4 million could have been used to sign 1 or 2 solid bottom 6 guys, and that is probably the route they should have went. But moving Malkin does not have to and should not happen. Play the kids, play the kids, deal with the growing pains. Use the money you save on their ELCs to sign depth guys. There you have it.
- j.boyd919

No ... no one has it here. When you have Crosby and Malkin, it forces a "win now" mentality that has his this organization hard. This leads to retarded decisions (Murray for two second rounders; Iggy (a non need) for a first and middling prospects and so on.

Sure, bad decisions have been made. However, I laugh at the people who think this changes in the offseason if Kunitz, Spaling, Sutter, Scuderi get dealt. That brings you back little in return. You get low picks and middling prospects. You don't see anything in return that helps next year's roster and the free agent pools sucks ass.

The only way you can move forward is looking to see what is out there for Malkin. You have a chance to certainly change the outlook of this franchise with the right move from a balance standpoint; from a cap standpoint; from a depth standpoint and from a talent standpoint.

Your main female dog is with a guy that makes 700k, another that is making 1 million that has given 15 goals; a mid season trade that cost Pittsburgh little money and a fourth line center. It's lunacy. Fact is this, we have a weak top six. Take away Crosby and Malkin, we only have one top six forward worth a poop (Hornquist). You female dog about third and fourth line guys, but yet our talent in the top six is embarrassing absent 71 and 87.

I really think you need to look at the roster once again to see where the weaknesses are. While there are weaknesses in the bottom six, its not as bad as our top six.

Play the kids ... play the kids. We DON'T HAVE ANY KIDS WORTH A poop at forward absent maybe Kapanen next year due to poopty previous moves. There you have it.

Rutherford winning moves

Acquiring Hornqvist
Signing Downie for 1 million
Signing Comeau for 700k
Perron for only a 1st (provided the 1st doesnt end up the McDavid pick)
Bortuzzo for Ian Cole

Rutherford losing moves

Only getting Hornqvist in the Neal Trade
Taking Spaling instead of a prospect/pick and paying him 2.2 million
Only a 1 year deal for Comeau on the cheap
Only a 1 year deal for Downie on the cheap
Despres for Lovejoy
Signing Ehrhoff (money better spent in top 6)
Not trading Sutter
Trading Goc for Lapierre
No significant picks in 2015 draft and a roster full of holes
Capping out the team and only being able to dress 5 D
Mike Johnston as coach


Can't say I didn't see this happening.... Its like Lemieux/Burkle weren't paying attention to what happened in Carolina in Old man Ruths last few years

-Ward Contract
-Semin Contract
-Staal trade (assets for 1 year early acquisition)
-A roster in the bottom of the league for multiple seasons
- RoloTahmasee

So, you are saying we aren't in this position with Marcel Goc on this roster? LOL. We would be in very similar position due to the fact he is nothing more than a fourth line center with limited abilities. He has some good, but he makes little impact.

You are saying signing Downie and Comeau for cheap one year contracts is a negative? You don't sign these guys to multi-year contracts based on their history. So, Comeau reverts to the Comeau of before, people will be female doging about him as they do Adams.

Signing Ehrhoff was the necessary move in the offseason. He was the most sought after Dman ... you lost Niskanen and Opik, so you needed a competent Dman. He was that. He was thought of to replace Niskanen. He suffered injuries. Can't control that.

Johnston as head coach is Rutherford? NO ONE WANTED THE JOB. If handled correctly by ownership, we would have a better coach than MJ. Who was out there to get? Torts?

Not trading Sutter? You are assuming people wanted him. So, who would have been our third line center? Marcel Goc? LOL