carter and richards had cap hits that were like 3 mil less than kessel........and the return for nash was nowhere near what leaf fans are expecting to get for kessel.

nash was traded for two 2nd liners and a late 1st

nobody is going to give up an elite young player, grade A prospect, and a 1st PLUS take on an 8 million cap hit
- sensarmy_11

3M less, 5+ years ago with a lower cap, and for lesser players.

So... yea.

Leafs asking teams to take on an 8M cap hit on top of Kessel. They're asking them to take a elite level goal scorer making what he's worth.

fair enough, i understand that some people are likely very sensitive.

my question initially wasn't asked with trolling in mind, but i get that perhaps some people would take it that way...........i just get bored at work, and like to talk hockey, any hockey
- sensarmy_11

Take solace in the fact that at least some of us are cheering for the Sens as much as it makes me throw up a little in my mouth to say that

3M less, 5+ years ago with a lower cap, and for lesser players.

So... yea.

Leafs asking teams to take on an 8M cap hit on top of Kessel. They're asking them to take a elite level goal scorer making what he's worth.
- Feeling Glucky?

when Carter was traded, he was comign off of a 36 goal season, had like 3 straight 30 goal seasons, and was 1 or 2 years removed from almost scoring 50

when richards was traded, he was viewed by many as one of the best all around players in the league.

you're acting like these were worthless 3rd line players..........they were elite level superstars when they were traded..........who were moved largely due to "off ice" and character issues...............sounds kind of familiar.

I think that it is normal for people to over value the return that a player will bring back in a trade. I am a Leaf fan living in Ottawa and when Spezza was being traded many Sens fans thought that the return would be HUGE. How did that work out? Of course after the trade most Ottawa fans KNEW that the return would be weak and we're glad to be rid of Spezza.

On the Kessel trade, I feel like some people are having a hard time giving Kessel His proper value simply because he is a Leaf. Kessel is what he is and he will bring back a solid return without any silly stipulations like retaining salary.

I think that it is normal for people to over value the return that a player will bring back in a trade. I am a Leaf fan living in Ottawa and when Spezza was being traded many Sens fans thought that the return would be HUGE. How did that work out? Of course after the trade most Ottawa fans KNEW that the return would be weak and we're glad to be rid of Spezza.

On the Kessel trade, I feel like some people are having a hard time giving Kessel His proper value simply because he is a Leaf. Kessel is what he is and he will bring back a solid return without any silly stipulations like retaining salary.
- HomelessKyle

i agree 100%.....a lot of people were overvaluing the return we would get for spezza.

i was guilty of it at first.....but as the list of teams shrunk, and some FAs signed, my expectations came back down to reality. in the end, i'm glad with the return.....ottawa got some decent young assets in return, and got his salary off the books, which might have been the biggest plus in that deal. like it or not, huge salaries make deals complicated, and have an impact on a players value. i honestly can't think of a single example of a high priced superstar being moved for a huge return in the salary cap era..........i'm sure there are some, but none are jumping to mind.

i agree 100%.....a lot of people were overvaluing the return we would get for spezza.

i was guilty of it at first.....but as the list of teams shrunk, and some FAs signed, by expectations came back down to reality. in the end, i'm glad with the return.....ottawa got some decent young assets in return, and got his salary off the books.
- sensarmy_11

Exactly!

It was crazy listening to some of my Sens fan buddies expectations of what Spezza would bring back. It is always easier to assess the situation when you are on the outside of it and have no emotional attachment.

I was a little underwhelmed with Spezzas return even though I expected it to be lower than most people I knew. I like Paul an dthink he will be a gamer but Chiasson is . You are right though, it was great for Ottawa to clear that salary. I agree large contracts make the deal more difficult to get done but the off season is the perfect time to make deals like that.

Exactly!

It was crazy listening to some of my Sens fan buddies expectations of what Spezza would bring back. It is always easier to assess the situation when you are on the outside of it and have no emotional attachment.

I was a little underwhelmed with Spezzas return even though I expected it to be lower than most people I knew. I like Paul an think he will be a gamer but Chiasson is
- HomelessKyle

paul and the 2nd rd pick were the two best assets we got in that deal. chiassson shows flashes of being a solid power forward...........but he's very inconsistent. still young, so who knows.

paul and the 2nd rd pick were the two best assets we got in that deal. chiassson shows flashes of being a solid power forward...........but he's very inconsistent. still young, so who knows.
- sensarmy_11

Yep, agreed. To be honest, I would like to see Chiasson get moved so that I don't have to listen to the announcers say his name 1000 different ways every game.

trade this summer:
kessel
phaneuf
lupul
bozak

trade at deadline:
polak
robidas
JVR (maybe) - his return would be massive

keep both goalies until the end of the season, then pick bernier or reimer to be the #1 until one of the new prospects are ready.

my 2 cents

thank you sir colin.
- Lucas Neilson

- Garnie

i agree 100%.....a lot of people were overvaluing the return we would get for spezza.

i was guilty of it at first.....but as the list of teams shrunk, and some FAs signed, my expectations came back down to reality. in the end, i'm glad with the return.....ottawa got some decent young assets in return, and got his salary off the books, which might have been the biggest plus in that deal. like it or not, huge salaries make deals complicated, and have an impact on a players value. i honestly can't think of a single example of a high priced superstar being moved for a huge return in the salary cap era..........i'm sure there are some, but none are jumping to mind.
- sensarmy_11

Kessel won't get two 1st's and a 2nd rd but he will definitely get a better return than Hemsky and a B-level prospect

it makes me laugh how defensive some of you guys get when anyone suggests that moving kessel isn't going to fetch a franchise altering return.
- sensarmy_11

Maybe we will be having the same argument when you guys have to sell Bobby Ryan for next to nothing with that bloated contract. Kessel may be lazy, and has a bad attitude, but at least he has the stats to back it up and he is twice as skilled.

Went off on a tangent there. My bad. Point is, his contract is definitely not bloated when he has the potential to score 35 year in and year out. True sniper. Shame about the attitude.

Kessel won't get two 1st's and a 2nd rd but he will definitely get a better return than Hemsky and a B-level prospect
- PatC80

Oh god, I would hope so.

when Carter was traded, he was comign off of a 36 goal season, had like 3 straight 30 goal seasons, and was 1 or 2 years removed from almost scoring 50

when richards was traded, he was viewed by many as one of the best all around players in the league.

you're acting like these were worthless 3rd line players..........they were elite level superstars when they were traded..........who were moved largely due to "off ice" and character issues...............sounds kind of familiar.
- sensarmy_11

They were never elite level superstars.

They were good players, varying degrees of good throughout their career.

As long as you are just going to throw out "widely regarded", I might as well throw out widely regarded as a coke head and alcoholic. Both of them apparently would not get on board with one of the team's substance use policies.

Richards went downhill fast, but I would argue that Carter was never as good as he was that first part season in LA, AFTER the trade.

i agree 100%.....a lot of people were overvaluing the return we would get for spezza.

i was guilty of it at first.....but as the list of teams shrunk, and some FAs signed, my expectations came back down to reality. in the end, i'm glad with the return.....ottawa got some decent young assets in return, and got his salary off the books, which might have been the biggest plus in that deal. like it or not, huge salaries make deals complicated, and have an impact on a players value. i honestly can't think of a single example of a high priced superstar being moved for a huge return in the salary cap era..........i'm sure there are some, but none are jumping to mind.
- sensarmy_11

Oh here we fcuking go.

Now it is a Spezza comparison. The guy who wanted out? The guy with an injury history? The guy reputed to have an attitude problem his whole career? who was also older than Kessel when traded.

You will find his numbers similar to Nash.

Sorry but the comparables aren't too comparable. The only way Kessel fetches a return like Nash or Spezza is because he is at his lowest selling point right now.

I don't think the Leafs trade him for garbage.

when Carter was traded, he was comign off of a 36 goal season, had like 3 straight 30 goal seasons, and was 1 or 2 years removed from almost scoring 50

when richards was traded, he was viewed by many as one of the best all around players in the league.

you're acting like these were worthless 3rd line players..........they were elite level superstars when they were traded..........who were moved largely due to "off ice" and character issues...............sounds kind of familiar.
- sensarmy_11

Don't pull a dopps and focus on 1 stat only, just because it makes your argument. Kessel is a great goalscorer and a great playmaker. Carter was never ppg, Kessel has been most of his time here.

What off ice issues does Kessel have?

I don't like the carter/richards comparisons to Kessel because of the NMC difference and that carter/richards have cap circumventing contracts.

I think Nash is the best comparable recent trade.

Comparison of Kessel (now) and Nash (time of trade)

Age:
Nash - 28
Kessel - 27

PPG – Last 5 years
Nash - .72, .88, .88, 1.10, .86
Kessel: .74, .98, 1.08, 1.00, .78

Contract Status
Nash: 6 years, $7.8M, LNTC
Kessel: 7 years, $8.0M, LNTC

Other
Kessel – elite scoring winger, with speed and playmaking ability
Nash – elite scoring winger with unique combination of size and skill

Trade: Brandon Dubinsky, Artem Anisimov, Tim Erixon and a 1st round

The return for Kessel should be similar. A young 2nd line roster player, a good d-prospect, a 1st rounder and a 3C.

Substitute Dubinksy for a pure salary dump and the leafs should be able to increase the quality of one of the other assets or add in a couple draft picks.

So from FLA: Trochek, Petrovic, 2015 1st, 2016 2nd, boyes

TO GO: Kessel, Dion, Lupul, Bozak, JVR
50-50 : Kadri, Gardiner.

I think we could get NJ's pick for JVR