Hey Zogg, I have to respectfully disagree and challenge your argument about the sedin's bein playoff performers. If I just quickly compare the playoff versus reg season points % vs Games played, here is what I found. I will preface this with I am not a statistician or an expert in any way shape or form where the stats, fenwick or corsci are concerned.
Hank Reg Season 84% points/game playoffs 73%. difference 11%. That is a win or two in the playoffs.
Daniel Reg Season 83% vs 69%. difference 14%.
You can see where the playoff performance can be negatively affected by this. One anchor is all you need to sink a ship if you toss it through the hull.
Now of course those numbers are skewed by the run in '11. I won't bother tossing the high and low numbers and averaging the rest. Clearly this simplistic calculation utilizing elementary mathematics states that there is a drop in performance. You have to agree with that. Your best players MUST be just that in the playoffs.
Just for fun I pulled Iginla out as a comparison and again I utilized some basic math to draw a conclusion here. Like the Sedin's Iginla too had a long playoff run.
Iginla
88% reg season vs 83%. difference 5%. <-- supports my argument.
Of course like kesler Iginla really never had a supporting cast to achieve the numbers that he did. You did point out that he's a power forward like Kesler. This leads me to your second paragraph about longevity.Now as far as that "staying power" in the league due to a perceived dysfunctional cerebellum, I would argue that iginla will have a long career, maybe longer than the Sedins only based on his current age 37, 38 in July and he had 29 goals or there abouts on the back of a rough season for colorado as a whole.
In terms of the "cerebral nature" of the sedin's play, I agree they are methodical in nature and uber skilled as a unit. The Sedin dump in or cycle is getting played out though.I am sure there is more in their repertoire than just that. Teams do have access to video and have a playbook on most players who've been around for a time and they adjust. So without augmentation to their style or the addition of a new element of play I would suggest their time may be limited, moreso than Iginla. My guess is that they will at the end of this current contract head home to close out their career and play for the SEL. So again Zogg I have to respectfully disagree. - CanuckSMEG
F*ck sakes, I had several paragraphs which were lost in the ether (@#$@# you Eklund and your gerbils-on-a-treadmill servers).
In any event, thanks for your input. Too bad you weren't around in the summer as unfortunately this argument has been discussed to death (and then some), without any sort of outright agreement on either side. As such, as you noted, we'll have to agree to disagree (ask Vantel how much 'fun' we had with this subject and how many forests worth of trees were used to argue these points with stats, comparables, graphs, dioramas, and puppet theatre representations. All you have to do is check out the many, many comments/threads we've had during the summer and even leading up to the play-offs. The only thing I can say is, the Sedins proved everybody wrong by having an excellent bounce back season after they were pretty much skewered after the Torts debacle and the injuries they sustained last year.
So you'll have to bear with me/and the vast majority of the HockeyBuzz Vancouver posters that this subject is pretty much a dead debate (at least for now lol) and I'm fairly sure no one wants to go through it again any time soon lol.
One thing I think (hope) that we (and pretty much the vast majority on the board agree on) is that Vancouver has never had quality secondary scoring, which all good teams have, and which allows the star players to do their thing. Provide the Sedins with that and I guarantee you that bumps their stats at least 15-20% - in particular as concerns the play-off when line-matching is a huge aspect of coaching
Location: Auckland -Burn it all down Joined: 10.22.2008
Apr 23 @ 8:00 PM ET
Yup it is not like this is the first year it happened. The same results happen year after year, and coaches get blamed.
This team needs a tear down and rebuild. No one should be safe aside from the twins or Bo - VANTEL
out with the old guard (Bieksa, Burrows, Hansen, ufa's, etc.)
i'd keep twins, Vrby, Bonino, Kassian, Bo, Dorsett, Tanev, Hammer, Eddler and the young guns.
The question is who do you replace them with....
F*ck sakes, I had several paragraphs which were lost in the ether (@#$@# you Eklund and your gerbils-on-a-treadmill servers).
In any event, thanks for your input. Too bad you weren't around in the summer as unfortunately this argument has been discussed to death (and then some), without any sort of outright agreement on either side. As such, as you noted, we'll have to agree to disagree (ask Vantel how much 'fun' we had with this subject and how many forests worth of trees were used to argue these points with stats, comparables, graphs, dioramas, and puppet theatre representations. All you have to do is check out the many, many comments/threads we've had during the summer and even leading up to the play-offs. The only thing I can say is, the Sedins proved everybody wrong by having an excellent bounce back season after they were pretty much skewered after the Torts debacle and the injuries they sustained last year.
So you'll have to bear with me/and the vast majority of the HockeyBuzz Vancouver posters that this subject is pretty much a dead debate and no one wants to go through it again.
On thing I think (hope) that we (and pretty much the vast majority on the board agree on, is that Vancouver has never had secondary scoring, which all good teams have, and which allows the star players to do their thing. Provide the Sedins with that and I guarantee you that bumps their stats at least 15-20%. - Zogg
IMO too much of what the Canucks do goes through the Sedins.
The problem is, the rest of our roster is not that good so not enough goes through the Sedins. If that makes sense?
Yup it is not like this is the first year it happened. The same results happen year after year, and coaches get blamed.
This team needs a tear down and rebuild. No one should be safe aside from the twins or Bo - VANTEL
Benning seems to do things in measured fashion. Meaning a few more aging pieces will likely be shipped out this summer and replaced with younger pieces. I highly doubt there will be a wholesale cleanout.
Rather than simply acquiring picks or rookies that are years away from being useful he seems to favor picking up young players that are either ready or close to being NHL ready - Clendening, Vey, Baertschi. I'm assuming he'll keep that tack in addition to simply acquiring draft picks.
out with the old guard (Bieksa, Burrows, Hansen, ufa's, etc.)
i'd keep twins, Vrby, Bonino, Kassian, Bo, Dorsett, Tanev, Hammer, Eddler and the young guns.
The question is who do you replace them with.... - dbot
Vrbata could bring in a very good piece coming back . He doesn't appear to be a playoff player. A thirty goal scorer on a 5 mil contract. I have suggested to trade him for LUcic.
Bonino has not lived up to expectations yet has decent numbers and a very friendly cap hit. I would like to see him and Vey packaged for B Sutter another playoff performer.
Bieksa without a doubt needs to be moved , same as Higgins.
Either Hamhuis or Edler should be moved for a top 6 forward.
Vrbata could bring in a very good piece coming back . He doesn't appear to be a playoff player. A thirty goal scorer on a 5 mil contract. I have suggested to trade him for LUcic.
Bonino has not lived up to expectations yet has decent numbers and a very friendly cap hit. I would like to see him and Vey packaged for B Sutter another playoff performer.
Bieksa without a doubt needs to be moved , same as Higgins.
Either Hamhuis or Edler should be moved for a top 6 forward.
out with the old guard (Bieksa, Burrows, Hansen, ufa's, etc.)
i'd keep twins, Vrby, Bonino, Kassian, Bo, Dorsett, Tanev, Hammer, Eddler and the young guns. The question is who do you replace them with.... - dbot
Depends what they are trying to achieve next season. If we simply traded Bieksa for a draft pick I doubt we'd see much, if any, difference on the ice. Burrows is expendable if Baertschi makes the jump. Hansen has a decent cap hit and has played well on the Horvat line but if he gets moved Kassian (assuming he's still in the mix) can slot in.
Moving out the vets definitely thins out the depth on paper but, if this series has taught us anything, the depth we thought we had is only paper thin.
Vrbata could bring in a very good piece coming back . He doesn't appear to be a playoff player. A thirty goal scorer on a 5 mil contract. I have suggested to trade him for LUcic.
Bonino has not lived up to expectations yet has decent numbers and a very friendly cap hit. I would like to see him and Vey packaged for B Sutter another playoff performer.
Bieksa without a doubt needs to be moved , same as Higgins.
Either Hamhuis or Edler should be moved for a top 6 forward.
Also one of our goalies. - VANTEL
So you wanna do a rebuild but you want to move youth for vets like Sutter
You think maybe the 2 centers ahead of Sutter on the depth chart taking all the defensive attention have at least a bit to do with his success
F*ck sakes, I had several paragraphs which were lost in the ether (@#$@# you Eklund and your gerbils-on-a-treadmill servers).
In any event, thanks for your input. Too bad you weren't around in the summer as unfortunately this argument has been discussed to death (and then some), without any sort of outright agreement on either side. As such, as you noted, we'll have to agree to disagree (ask Vantel how much 'fun' we had with this subject and how many forests worth of trees were used to argue these points with stats, comparables, graphs, dioramas, and puppet theatre representations. All you have to do is check out the many, many comments/threads we've had during the summer and even leading up to the play-offs. The only thing I can say is, the Sedins proved everybody wrong by having an excellent bounce back season after they were pretty much skewered after the Torts debacle and the injuries they sustained last year.
So you'll have to bear with me/and the vast majority of the HockeyBuzz Vancouver posters that this subject is pretty much a dead debate (at least for now lol) and I'm fairly sure no one wants to go through it again any time soon lol.
One thing I think (hope) that we (and pretty much the vast majority on the board agree on) is that Vancouver has never had quality secondary scoring, which all good teams have, and which allows the star players to do their thing. Provide the Sedins with that and I guarantee you that bumps their stats at least 15-20% - in particular as concerns the play-off when line-matching is a huge aspect of coaching - Zogg
Yeah, I figured it wasn't new news.
I agree that 2nd line and periphery players are very important and would change the points per game of any player. You just have to look at some of the recent cup winners. A decent couple of lines and at least one or two decent agitators aka $hit disturbers. Recall someone by the name of Cooke or my personal favourite and I am not a Canuck fan JARKKO RUUTU.
Depends what they are trying to achieve. If we simply traded Bieksa for a draft pick I doubt we'd see much, if any, difference on the ice. Burrows is expendable if Baertschi makes the jump. Hansen has a decent cap hit and has played well on the Horvat line but if he gets moved Kassian (assuming he's still in the mix) can slot in.
Moving out the vets definitely thins out the depth on paper but, if this series has taught us anything, the depth we thought we had is only paper thin. - AlexF
Or maybe just maybe we could put both bieksa and sbisa with a play it safe partner like Hamhuis or Corrado
So you wanna do a rebuild but you want to move youth for vets like Sutter
You think maybe the 2 centers ahead of Sutter on the depth chart taking all the defensive attention have at least a bit to do with his success - Bieksa#3
No. I think he is a good third line Centre. Period . On any team
I agree that 2nd line and periphery players are very important and would change the points per game of any player. You just have to look at some of the recent cup winners. A decent couple of lines and at least one or two decent agitators aka $hit disturbers. Recall someone by the name of Cooke or my personal favourite and I am not a Canuck fan JARKKO RUUTU. - CanuckSMEG
That's where those Ferlands and Bouma's are absolutely required but, they have to have more than just the one dimension. Intersting thing is that in Junior Ferland was relied upon to score goals. If he brings that to Calgary tonight, look out. It's not all about the top two lines, balanced scoring by committee if possible. Role players have to come to the table.
Last year's coach played them too much
This year's coach doesn't play them enough.
What was the reason for AV I forget? - VANTEL
You can argue childishly all you want. But the sedins are both in the 100 range for forwards ice time in the playoffs. Right behind every teams tip 6 forwards.
When I went to school there was a significant gap between 16 min per night and 24 min per night.
Are the sedins perfect? Heavens no, but they are all we got.
Vrbata could bring in a very good piece coming back . He doesn't appear to be a playoff player. A thirty goal scorer on a 5 mil contract. I have suggested to trade him for LUcic.
Bonino has not lived up to expectations yet has decent numbers and a very friendly cap hit. I would like to see him and Vey packaged for B Sutter another playoff performer.
Bieksa without a doubt needs to be moved , same as Higgins.
Either Hamhuis or Edler should be moved for a top 6 forward.
Also one of our goalies. - VANTEL
Lucic would never come here, his rapport with the Roxy staff and patrons is not good. I heard something a couple years back, might have been a tussle.
For years now I've been hearing "the canucks play to the level of their competition"
(frank)ing horse poop. Absolute (frank)ing donkey piss. That crap drives me crazy.
Good teams beat lesser teams. If they don't they ain't better. The only consistent thing about the canucks over the past few years is inconsistency. Whose fault is that? I have no idea. - bloatedmosquito
The list of teams, over the years that didn't play down to level of the Canucks when they were the weak team, would annoy you.
Lucic would never come here, his rapport with the Roxy staff and patrons is not good. I heard something a couple years back, might have been a tussle. - CanuckSMEG
Thats BS.
First off he would be employed by the Canucks , not the Roxy.
Secondly Vancouver may have one or two more drinking establishments not named the Roxy.
Thirdly as much as the bad feelings between LUcic and Canuck fans , after his first fight or first goal everything would change.
If Canucks went into round two with him here he would be a hero.
lol 
Good bye cruel world! 
