I think you CAN blame the Hawks for not recognizing some of the potential issues when dropping a first round pick and trading a second rounder on these guys.

I guess the TT and Versteeg comparisons are fair. Hammer? Ha, not buying that at all.

Agreed though that the Hawks lack legit PF's in their system. But I think you are overlooking at least John Hayden.

But even though it's an organizational need, I don't think that forces you to pander to a spoiled kid's demands. And I do think he's a spoiled kid. The Hawks by that point, knew more about him than anyone.
- John Jaeckel

Believe what you want on Hammer. It's the truth. I love Hammer but a spade is a spade.

here's the bottom line.....back in 2007-08, 2008-09 the hawks would cater to their prospects if you want to call it...demands, because they didnt' have a team ready yet. If Hayes had come around in 2007 or 2008 he would be on this team. Period.

I am not buying Hayes is some spoiled kid. Anyone here who claims they would go sit in Rockford for a year or maybe more just to be a good sport and ignore the chatter that other teams would give you a HONEST chance at a NHL roster spot is full of crap. Save me from the moral high ground. Not one guy here would do anything different then what Hayes did based on what information he was receiving from his camp.

yes, the Hawks can survive without Kevin Hayes. Not signing him isnt' going to set this organization back years. Just saying.....I'm not going to call him out for something that 99.9% of the population would do......while it's hockey, it's very much a business as well.

Gump, get out of here with your objectivity and enlightened commentary.

The Wild have earned something. They knocked off the "titular" favorites and #2 conference seed in six games. they were the best teram in hockey down the stretch.

But everyone knows, and they do, they really have to win this series to be considered a legit elite team with Cup potential.

I'm not saying they can't at all.

But all this "you're disrespecting/underestimating our guys" is bull, to your point, until they've really earned it.

I mean, throw out the regular season records, fine. I still maintain, as far as match ups, Q holds more of the cards than Yeo does. I will also concede that Rozsival and Timonen are the achilles heel for Chicago.

If Crawford plays like he can (and has) in most playoff series, it is a great equalizer there. Just as Dubnyk can be if the Hawks can maintain o-zone pressure and put 45 shots on net and have Corsi through the roof.

I really think this series comes down to:

1) Whether Minnesota, like Nashville can get out to early leads
2) and therefore, how well the Chicago goalies play
3) how much sustained o-zone pressure the Hawks can maintain
- John Jaeckel

Yup, difficult to argue any of your points. Agree on Rosival and Timmonen. Thought Rosi was a factor in the Nash series, unfortunately he factored more into the favor of the Preds than the speedy Hawks!

One very big difference this season for the Wild is in fact the 3rd D pairing. Dumba all of a sudden showed up half way through the season and looks much more like a top 10 draft pick and the acquisition of one Jordan Leopold has made for a very solid 3rd... Who knew?! I thought at best Leopold plays if someone gets hurt or Yeo simply needs to shake things up. But he's been very solid and was a factor in the Blues series.

But Yeo does have a few defensive options on the shelf as well in Prosser and Folin. Honestly surprised Folin has not been able to solidfy himself as a 3rd pairing starter, but seems Yeo must have issues with his game.

But Yeo does have a few defensive options on the shelf as well in Prosser and Folin. Honestly surprised Folin has not been able to solidfy himself as a 3rd pairing starter, but seems Yeo must have issues with his game.
- MnGump

I think Leopold has just been so solid that's why these guys aren't getting in. He's always been a good skater but I was a little surprised he's still moving as well as he is - fits in well with this system.

Free country.

Not gonna blast him. I just think ultimately good riddance. I think the Hawks smelled bad character and stood their ground.
- John Jaeckel

I have no idea what's in Daddy's bank account, but the behaviors of he and his brother, both reported and otherwise, indicate spoiled.
- John Jaeckel

This.

I think Leopold has just been so solid that's why these guys aren't getting in. He's always been a good skater but I was a little surprised he's still moving as well as he is - fits in well with this system.
- Chinaski

Right, but if you recall, Folin was still the odd man out in favor of Prosser before Leopold was acquired. I think Folin is far and away a superior player to Prosser, and he's got a lot of offensive upside with a booming shot.

Yup, difficult to argue any of your points. Agree on Rosival and Timmonen. Thought Rosi was a factor in the Nash series, unfortunately he factored more into the favor of the Preds than the speedy Hawks!

One very big difference this season for the Wild is in fact the 3rd D pairing. Dumba all of a sudden showed up half way through the season and looks much more like a top 10 draft pick and the acquisition of one Jordan Leopold has made for a very solid 3rd... Who knew?! I thought at best Leopold plays if someone gets hurt or Yeo simply needs to shake things up. But he's been very solid and was a factor in the Blues series.

But Yeo does have a few defensive options on the shelf as well in Prosser and Folin. Honestly surprised Folin has not been able to solidfy himself as a 3rd pairing starter, but seems Yeo must have issues with his game.
- MnGump

They may need the depth and Prosser's size before the end of the series.

This.
- EKolb13

But NOT because he refused the Hawks and signed with the Rangers.

HOLY 7 months later and Kevin Hayes is still a topic here. Get over it people. let it go. he went for the money the hawks couldn't offer because of cap space, is he worth almost 4 million as a rookie?

HOLY 7 months later and Kevin Hayes is still a topic here. Get over it people. let it go. he went for the money the hawks couldn't offer because of cap space, is he worth almost 4 million as a rookie?
- SaskHawkFan

Kevin Hayes could only sign an entry level deal and that had a maximum salary. If I remember correctly he only got $925,000 this year and it was a two-way deal.

This had nothing to do with money, it had to do with him wanting to play in New York.

I think you CAN blame the Hawks for not recognizing some of the potential issues when dropping a first round pick and trading a second rounder on these guys.

I guess the TT and Versteeg comparisons are fair. Hammer? Ha, not buying that at all.

Agreed though that the Hawks lack legit PF's in their system. But I think you are overlooking at least John Hayden.

But even though it's an organizational need, I don't think that forces you to pander to a spoiled kid's demands. And I do think he's a spoiled kid. The Hawks by that point, knew more about him than anyone.
- John Jaeckel

Chris Calnan has the tools to be a nice power forward if he continues to improve in college. Kyle Baun is a legit PF. You really only need 2-3 power guys on your team to field a solid contender, and I would argue that those guys are probably the hardest to find for any team in this NHL, not just the Hawks.

Kevin Hayes could only sign an entry level deal and that had a maximum salary. If I remember correctly he only got $925,000 this year and it was a two-way deal.

This had nothing to do with money, it had to do with him wanting to play in New York.
- mschutz2

numbers disagree

Kevin Hayes signed a 2 year / $7,680,000 contract with the New York Rangers, including a $180,000 signing bonus, and an annual average salary of $3,840,000. In 2014-15, Hayes will earn a base salary of $900,000 and a signing bonus of $180,000. Hayes has a cap hit of $880,645 while his dead money value is $3,669,354.

JJ - Curious to get your opinion on Backstrom's hit on Boyle? Dirty? Illegal? Penalty?

Believe what you want on Hammer. It's the truth. I love Hammer but a spade is a spade.

here's the bottom line.....back in 2007-08, 2008-09 the hawks would cater to their prospects if you want to call it...demands, because they didnt' have a team ready yet. If Hayes had come around in 2007 or 2008 he would be on this team. Period.

I am not buying Hayes is some spoiled kid. Anyone here who claims they would go sit in Rockford for a year or maybe more just to be a good sport and ignore the chatter that other teams would give you a HONEST chance at a NHL roster spot is full of crap. Save me from the moral high ground. Not one guy here would do anything different then what Hayes did based on what information he was receiving from his camp.

yes, the Hawks can survive without Kevin Hayes. Not signing him isnt' going to set this organization back years. Just saying.....I'm not going to call him out for something that 99.9% of the population would do......while it's hockey, it's very much a business as well.
- SteveRain

Oh come on with this garbage. Just let it lie. You want to spout off about how Teravainen was pumped by the organization and coddled and on the fast track to the show in place of Hayes, but he didn't even make the team out of camp, and wasn't called up until over halfway through the season.

This crap about an honest chance at an NHL roster is something I hear all the time with this team. You know how you get an honest chance at making the team? You play better than the other guys on the roster. Simple as that. To say "I won't play for this team because they won't give me a shot" is basically the same as saying "I won't play for this team because I can't/won't outwork/outplay other guys to make the 23." Nobody closed any doors in front of this kid. He chose to find an organization that would guarantee him minutes without having to earn them and exercised his right to do so under the CBA.

I know how that sounds to me, and to others, and you may see it a different way. But those are the facts.

numbers disagree

Kevin Hayes signed a 2 year / $7,680,000 contract with the New York Rangers, including a $180,000 signing bonus, and an annual average salary of $3,840,000. In 2014-15, Hayes will earn a base salary of $900,000 and a signing bonus of $180,000. Hayes has a cap hit of $880,645 while his dead money value is $3,669,354.
- SaskHawkFan

http://rangersunlimited.c...-and-entry-level-bonuses/

That breaks it down. Those are bonuses that would not have an affect on the 2014-15 cap. Only next year, and by the looks of the season he may have only hit 1 of those bonuses so it will be a small hit next year.

Oh come on with this garbage. Just let it lie. You want to spout off about how Teravainen was pumped by the organization and coddled and on the fast track to the show in place of Hayes, but he didn't even make the team out of camp, and wasn't called up until over halfway through the season.

This crap about an honest chance at an NHL roster is something I hear all the time with this team. You know how you get an honest chance at making the team? You play better than the other guys on the roster. Simple as that. To say "I won't play for this team because they won't give me a shot" is basically the same as saying "I won't play for this team because I can't/won't outwork/outplay other guys to make the 23." Nobody closed any doors in front of this kid. He chose to find an organization that would guarantee him minutes without having to earn them and exercised his right to do so under the CBA.

I know how that sounds to me, and to others, and you may see it a different way. But those are the facts.
- Sandus

The Hawks on paper were loaded. Period. What guy was he going to replace this fall? This isn't 2007 or 2008 with a team full of unknowns. What top 6 guy was Hayes replacing? Or even top 9?

That's my point. He looked at this team, saw the depth, saw guys like Morin who were in front of him and went elsewhere. That's the facts.

Now.....was there EVER a chance outside of Bowman GUARANTEEING him a roster spot on this team that he'd sign here? Nobody knows. So for that part of the debate I agree...Bowman may have done everything he could have.

However...bottom line to me is that the kid took advantage of the CBA, found a situation he could take a quick road to the NHL and has proven that he IS ready.

Put yourself in his shoes....I'm sure you would have ignored your agent or camp that had received information that you could compete for a NHL job REALISTICALLY this year, probably making a NHL roster, but instead would go down to Rockford because......you're a good guy. That is just humorous to me that so many people think this. The goal of EVERY prospect is to make the NHL as quickly as possible, lets not lose site of this.

Chris Calnan has the tools to be a nice power forward if he continues to improve in college. Kyle Baun is a legit PF. You really only need 2-3 power guys on your team to field a solid contender, and I would argue that those guys are probably the hardest to find for any team in this NHL, not just the Hawks.
- Sandus

Yes but at what timeline? Guys like Baun weren't signed to play in the AHL. Does he pass over guys like McNeill, Hartman, etc? I didn't see much of Baun play but I heard he has some speed. Does he cycle the puck though? Does he check and bang at the net?

The Hawks on paper were loaded. Period. What guy was he going to replace this fall? This isn't 2007 or 2008 with a team full of unknowns. What top 6 guy was Hayes replacing? Or even top 9?

That's my point. He looked at this team, saw the depth, saw guys like Morin who were in front of him and went elsewhere. That's the facts.

Now.....was there EVER a chance outside of Bowman GUARANTEEING him a roster spot on this team that he'd sign here? Nobody knows. So for that part of the debate I agree...Bowman may have done everything he could have.

However...bottom line to me is that the kid took advantage of the CBA, found a situation he could take a quick road to the NHL and has proven that he IS ready.

Put yourself in his shoes....I'm sure you would have ignored your agent or camp that had received information that you could compete for a NHL job REALISTICALLY this year, probably making a NHL roster, but instead would go down to Rockford because......you're a good guy. That is just humorous to me that so many people think this. The goal of EVERY prospect is to make the NHL as quickly as possible, lets not lose site of this.
- SteveRain

I get all that Steve and don't disagree with Hayes' choices or perogotives. The thing/s that got my attention was Johns and Paliotta stating that among their reasons for staying with the Hawks was how the organization stayed in contact with them, worked with them on their development. That tells me three things: That the Hawks did invest in these guys careers (as they should), the Hawks were likely very familiar with him, and loyalty (based on organizational support) was a factor in all three situations. I think the loyalty issue is what probably grates some people the most. Though loyalty does indeed cut both ways in the sports business...

Me, I don't really care. It's over. Happy we have Baun and Hayden and some of the other prized young free agents.

http://rangersunlimited.com/2014/08/21/a-look-at-kevin-hayes-contract-and-entry-level-bonuses/

That breaks it down. Those are bonuses that would not have an affect on the 2014-15 cap. Only next year, and by the looks of the season he may have only hit 1 of those bonuses so it will be a small hit next year.
- mschutz2

The Hawks if im correct coundlt not offer that type of bonus money due to cap space. IE the same when Toews won the conn smyth and it cost us 4 million in cap space.

Yes but at what timeline? Guys like Baun weren't signed to play in the AHL. Does he pass over guys like McNeill, Hartman, etc? I didn't see much of Baun play but I heard he has some speed. Does he cycle the puck though? Does he check and bang at the net?
- Bjm84

Training camp should reveal all that. Baun looked very impressive to my eyes -- both physical traits on the ice and his positioning. More importantly, Q seemed pretty smitten as well.

I'm sure the Hawks organization knows more about Baun than, me and have a plan. Wouldn't surprise me to see another prospect or two traded to make room for the next wave. Hawks seem to have an eventual 'up or out' method of development/matriculation. This may be McNeil's year to graduate or get traded.

Yes but at what timeline? Guys like Baun weren't signed to play in the AHL. Does he pass over guys like McNeill, Hartman, etc? I didn't see much of Baun play but I heard he has some speed. Does he cycle the puck though? Does he check and bang at the net?
- Bjm84

We all will have some sort of answer come fall.

I get all that Steve and don't disagree with Hayes' choices or perogotives. The thing/s that got my attention was Johns and Paliotta stating that among their reasons for staying with the Hawks was how the organization stayed in contact with them, worked with them on their development. That tells me three things: That the Hawks did invest in these guys careers (as they should), the Hawks were likely very familiar with him, and loyalty (based on organizational support) was a factor in all three situations. I think the loyalty issue is what probably grates some people the most. Though loyalty does indeed cut both ways in the sports business...

Me, I don't really care. It's over. Happy we have Baun and Hayden and some of the other prized young free agents.
- grinder10

I agree with you. I am not defending Hayes as a person, I just understand why he did it from a business stand point.

The Hawks aren't or didn't take a step back because Hayes is no longer here.

Very nervous about this series

Really hoping the A team hawks show up. I just know that this core is clutch and so damn determined, I just hope they can make up and carry the extra baggage depth guys who really need to get their @sses in gear.

Training camp should reveal all that. Baun looked very impressive to my eyes -- both physical traits on the ice and his positioning.

I'm sure the Hawks organization knows more about Baun than, me and have a plan. Wouldn't surprise me to see another prospect or two traded to make room for the next wave. Hawks seem to have an eventual 'up or out' method of development/matriculation. This may be McNeil's year to graduate or get traded.
- grinder10

McNeil enters the final season of his ELC next season. I don't believe the organization is quite at that point yet. Depends on who does what, and what shakes out from it.

The Hawks if im correct coundlt not offer that type of bonus money due to cap space. IE the same when Toews won the conn smyth and it cost us 4 million in cap space.
- SaskHawkFan

Looks correct to me.

McNeil enters the final season of his ELC next season. I don't believe the organization is quite at that point yet. Depends on who does what, and what shakes out from it.
- EKolb13

He's the one that I'm most concerned is now 'on the clock'

He's the one that I'm most concerned is now 'on the clock'
- grinder10

I can see that, and I see your point. There are time when I think this too.

However, my gut tells me that they won't give up on him that easily, either. At least not now.

That might change by the start of January...