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So CAR has a guy that isn't coming coming close to his expected production, are are willing to take a good chunk of his salary just to get him off the books. Why on Earth would the Pens want to take him on for 50%?
- sammy87

Didn't you answer your own question?

Name a higher potential big reward winger for Sid / Geno under $4M that wouldnt cost a ton to acquire?

Of course, some current dead weight should be moved first... and I'm not saying he's perfect, but as an armchair GM, that's a gamble I'd take.

PHX doesn't need BB and I'm not sure they need D either. This makes no sense for Phoenix
- Oneonta Penguin

If Sutter is the player to move, PHX is desperate down the middle. Im not sure they do it either, just an example of how to get top 6 help and a realistic type of trade.

If Sutter is the player to move, PHX is desperate down the middle. Im not sure they do it either, just an example of how to get top 6 help and a realistic type of trade.
- sammy87

I thought your proposal was very reasonable. Targeting a team desperate for center depth is a very good way to get maximum value out of a Sutter trade.

If Sutter is the player to move, PHX is desperate down the middle. Im not sure they do it either, just an example of how to get top 6 help and a realistic type of trade.
- sammy87

I'm not sure ARZ would want Sutter. They have Hanzel, Gagner and probably Domi next year

I hope we don't. He doesn't produce offensively and isn't good defensively. Eaves is a UFA that would be useful on the 4th line.
- jfkst1

He would fit in with the Penguins. Hasn't played more than 50 games in the last 5 seasons.

He would fit in with the Penguins. Hasn't played more than 50 games in the last 5 seasons.
- cap1681

Jack Skilleless hasn't played more than 50 NHL games in the last 4 seasons. And he's not productive when he does plays.

I'm not sure ARZ would want Sutter. They have Hanzel, Gagner and probably Domi next year
- willi

Had Sutter been on PHX he would have been the #2 goal scorer behind OEL, a Dman.

Hanzel is broken a lot and Gagner is not as good as Sutter. You could argue Sutter would be a 1C on that squad. Throw in BB and that off sets some of lack of offensive depth PHX has.

Either way, its better option than Semin.

Jack Skilleless hasn't played more than 50 NHL games in the last 4 seasons. And he's not productive when he does plays.
- jfkst1

Hard to believe Chicago is as good as they are with some of their 1st round picks.....
Cam Barker, Jack Skille, Kyle Beach, Dylan Olsen, Mark McNeill, Philip Danault, Kevin Hayes (good pick but never played there)

The term on Semin deal is why a deal not happening. I mean even if they retain 50% your still talking about 10.5 million worth of risks.

I'd consider 50% retained and they take Scuderi though.


- sditulli

Why do the canes have to take Scuderi? If we trade Scuds to some other team or buy him out, that would free us to go after Semin @ 50%. I'm just saying it doesn't have to be part of same deal.

Most of you don't care much about this stuff but Semin still has really good possession numbers. Given the chance to play more of a passenger/sniper role with Geno and I think he could thrive.

Hard to believe Chicago is as good as they are with some of their 1st round picks.....
Cam Barker, Jack Skille, Kyle Beach, Dylan Olsen, Mark McNeill, Philip Danault, Kevin Hayes (good pick but never played there)
- willi

Yes, but their drafting/developing of later picks is a hell of a lot better than Pittsburgh has done. Bowman also hasn't been selling out every single year like Shero did.

50% isn't enough on Semin. That is why I'd want more.

Its a 3 year risks on Semin. Not worth it.

Had Sutter been on PHX he would have been the #2 goal scorer behind OEL, a Dman.

Hanzel is broken a lot and Gagner is not as good as Sutter. You could argue Sutter would be a 1C on that squad. Throw in BB and that off sets some of lack of offensive depth PHX has.

Either way, its better option than Semin.
- sammy87

I get that ARI might want Sutter. But I don't see how they'd trade away one of their few proven decent scorers to get him (for reasons you mentioned). I think it'd be more likely that they would trade Duclair/Reider/picks than Boedker.

Why do the canes have to take Scuderi? If we trade Scuds to some other team or buy him out, that would free us to go after Semin @ 50%. I'm just saying it doesn't have to be part of same deal.

Most of you don't care much about this stuff but Semin still has really good possession numbers. Given the chance to play more of a passenger/sniper role with Geno and I think he could thrive.
- YouMeAndDupuis9

I am going to be blissfully ignorant of how untradable Scuderi is to the 6-8 teams that he could go to (Carolina isn't one of them btw), and hope he can be dumped to a former contender.

But I am going to legit keep riding the "look to getting Semin" train. If you get rid of Kunitz, the salary is a wash. And now you can see who Semin works with better, Crosby or Malkin. Since Horny was good with both of them this season.

Perron I think will come back to good form next season, so we just need 1 top 6 LW for next season in either FA, draft, or trying Kap (listed at RW, but don't know how flexible that is for him) or someone else there early on.

Or Hell, maybe we can be hopeful of Dupuis being the workout beast he is at near Jagr level (kidding, no one is that level), and he can do 1 more year of top 6 and then retire.


#ReallyWishfulThinkingPost


edit: I'll add the likely team Scuds can go to, again... I have to be looking this up almost once a month now.

Most likely 6-8 teams based on Playoffs of the 2012-13 season should be within these 10.
Boston, Chicago, LA, NYR, Detriot, Ottawa, San Jose, Anaheim, Montreal, Washington.

Why do the canes have to take Scuderi? If we trade Scuds to some other team or buy him out, that would free us to go after Semin @ 50%. I'm just saying it doesn't have to be part of same deal.

Most of you don't care much about this stuff but Semin still has really good possession numbers. Given the chance to play more of a passenger/sniper role with Geno and I think he could thrive.
- YouMeAndDupuis9

What role is he playing in Carolina? Sure Staal isn't near the playmaker that 87/71 are but he is getting plenty of TOI in the top 6. At his salary, possession numbers aren't enough. Good possession players can be acquired for cheap. Kunitz is still a strong possession player but if he isn't producing he's not worth keeping at his salary. For $7m/yr Semin needs to put up at least 60+pts. Even eating 50% of his salary he needs to produce 40+ points through the duration of the contract to make sense. He's 31 and showing major production declines, that's a major risk.

I get that ARI might want Sutter. But I don't see how they'd trade away one of their few proven decent scorers to get him (for reasons you mentioned). I think it'd be more likely that they would trade Duclair/Reider/picks than Boedker.
- YouMeAndDupuis9

I think that someone like Boedker is the type of player the Pens should try and get. Young, a bit proven, cheap....the opposite of Semin. Who is Older, lazy and pricey.

50% isn't enough on Semin. That is why I'd want more.

Its a 3 year risks on Semin. Not worth it.
- sditulli

Its not "that" big of a risk considering other options...Belesky/Tlusty/Frolik would be just as much of a bad contract risk

I am going to be blissfully ignorant of how untradable Scuderi is to the 6-8 teams that he could go to (Carolina isn't one of them btw), and hope he can be dumped to a former contender.

But I am going to legit keep riding the "look to getting Semin" train. If you get rid of Kunitz, the salary is a wash. And now you can see who Semin works with better, Crosby or Malkin. Since Horny was good with both of them this season.

Perron I think will come back to good form next season, so we just need 1 top 6 LW for next season in either FA, draft, or trying Kap (listed at RW, but don't know how flexible that is for him) or someone else there early on.

Or Hell, maybe we can be hopeful of Dupuis being the workout beast he is at near Jagr level (kidding, no one is that level), and he can do 1 more year of top 6 and then retire.


#ReallyWishfulThinkingPost


edit: I'll add the likely team Scuds can go to, again... I have to be looking this up almost once a month now.
- Guile

And what if Semin does not work with either? He would be a horrible bottom 6 player.

Not sure what games you watched but Hornquest looked lost with Malkin.

Id rather keep Kuni for the same price on the 3rd line than giving Scuds or anything to CAR for 50% of the cost of Semin.

I think that someone like Boedker is the type of player the Pens should try and get. Young, a bit proven, cheap....the opposite of Semin. Who is Older, lazy and pricey.
- sammy87

I don't have a problem with Boedker but the point of my post is that he won't be cheap, and I dont really see the motivation from Arizona's end to get the deal done.

I am going to be blissfully ignorant of how untradable Scuderi is to the 6-8 teams that he could go to (Carolina isn't one of them btw), and hope he can be dumped to a former contender.

But I am going to legit keep riding the "look to getting Semin" train. If you get rid of Kunitz, the salary is a wash. And now you can see who Semin works with better, Crosby or Malkin. Since Horny was good with both of them this season.

Perron I think will come back to good form next season, so we just need 1 top 6 LW for next season in either FA, draft, or trying Kap (listed at RW, but don't know how flexible that is for him) or someone else there early on.

Or Hell, maybe we can be hopeful of Dupuis being the workout beast he is at near Jagr level (kidding, no one is that level), and he can do 1 more year of top 6 and then retire.


#ReallyWishfulThinkingPost


edit: I'll add the likely team Scuds can go to, again... I have to be looking this up almost once a month now.

Most likely 6-8 teams based on Playoffs of the 2012-13 season should be within these 10.
Boston, Chicago, LA, NYR, Detriot, Ottawa, San Jose, Anaheim, Montreal, Washington.
- Guile

Looking at your list...why wouldn't Washington want an old broken down Penguins defenseman??

But yea, I agree with your whole post.

What role is he playing in Carolina? Sure Staal isn't near the playmaker that 87/71 are but he is getting plenty of TOI in the top 6. At his salary, possession numbers aren't enough. Good possession players can be acquired for cheap. Kunitz is still a strong possession player but if he isn't producing he's not worth keeping at his salary. For $7m/yr Semin needs to put up at least 60+pts. Even eating 50% of his salary he needs to produce 40+ points through the duration of the contract to make sense. He's 31 and showing major production declines, that's a major risk.
- jfkst1

But answer this question...how do we acquire talented top 6 players without risk?

31 with 3 years left is not too old for an age related decline. I can't reply much to his role in Carolina other than what Canes fans say around these parts...and that is that he didnt mesh in Bill Peters system and he was battling injuries. The contract has been bad from the start but this was his only poor season in Carolina.

What role is he playing in Carolina? Sure Staal isn't near the playmaker that 87/71 are but he is getting plenty of TOI in the top 6. At his salary, possession numbers aren't enough. Good possession players can be acquired for cheap. Kunitz is still a strong possession player but if he isn't producing he's not worth keeping at his salary. For $7m/yr Semin needs to put up at least 60+pts. Even eating 50% of his salary he needs to produce 40+ points through the duration of the contract to make sense. He's 31 and showing major production declines, that's a major risk.
- jfkst1

I agree. The only way Semin should be brought in is if he's bought out by Carolina so your not stuck with him for 3 years.

But answer this question...how do we acquire talented top 6 players without risk?

31 with 3 years left is not too old for an age related decline. I can't reply much to his role in Carolina other than what Canes fans say around these parts...and that is that he didnt mesh in Bill Peters system and he was battling injuries. The contract has been bad from the start but this was his only poor season in Carolina.
- YouMeAndDupuis9

Probably can't. That's the result of the poor personnel decisions of Shero and Rutherford as GMs. I'd rather they went cheap dumpster diving with reclamation projects where at least they'll have cap flexibility. Having Despres, who's been playing effectively on Anaheim's 2nd pairing, would have been a very useful trade asset to bring in a developing top 6 forward but Rutherford wasted that.

Probably can't. That's the result of the poor personnel decisions of Shero and Rutherford as GMs. I'd rather they went cheap dumpster diving with reclamation projects where at least they'll have cap flexibility. Having Despres, who's been playing effectively on Anaheim's 2nd pairing, would have been a very useful trade asset to bring in a developing top 6 forward but Rutherford wasted that.
- jfkst1

Yea, I mean we made some bad choices to get into this situation. But I keep asking myself...who's a better cheap dumpster dive reclamation project than Semin? Until I hear better alternatives I'm going to stick by that opinion.

Yea, I mean we made some bad choices to get into this situation. But I keep asking myself...who's a better cheap dumpster dive reclamation project than Semin? Until I hear better alternatives I'm going to stick by that opinion.
- YouMeAndDupuis9

I dont see Semin as a solution. In fact I think he just exacerbates the problem.

The Pens are already an old team. Adding Semin who would be a project is not a good solution. Giving a prospect with 71 a chance is better than hoping your $4mil rehab project works out. Semin is out for the money. He had a great opportunity in WASH and blew it. There is a small chance it would work out well. There a huge chance its just a waste and then you can't trade him, and are looking at buying him out. If you think adding Semin turns the tide on the Pens and makes them a playoff contender, you dont know his game very well.