Well you got to have that to get the next part no? They went from a non playoff team to a cup condender with no personnel changes.
- burn

Really? In my estimation, they didn't become a contender until they got a 2nd line (Kesler), the youngsters developed into a mobile D (Lindholm, Vatanen) and Andersson stepped up as a good enough goalie.

I'm not so sure they wouldn't still be contenders right now if they had fat headed Randy back there instead of fat headed Gabby.

The things (facts) I post are hypothetical, but yours are facts?


Love this place.
- burn

Leafs got worse after RC fired. Fact
rC won a cup. Fact

Kadri would be better with more icetime. Hypothetical
Anyone could have win with ducks 07 roster. Hypothetical.

I love it too

Well....hes not replacing 4 players right off the hop (81, jvr, 2 D). Then typically D get more ice time, so thats 6. So i guess that leaves bozak. We know u love nazem, i hate both so i could care less between bozak and kadri. So yes it somewhat makes sense considering bozak has gotten more points tha kadri most years,l. But again both suck so i dont care.
- clark_griswold

Kadri plays less mins with weaker line mates.... And score more /60.

I want the best players playing. Kadri should have been on the pp more. No question.

Nothing beats how adamant you were the leafs would improve after RC was fired. Tops.

You can use all the hypotheticals you want. I choose facts.
- clark_griswold

Fact: Horachek has never been a good coach.

Fact: replacing something bad with something worse isn't going to give you good results.

Yup.

You're not going to win the cup with a bad team.

That Ducks team though was ridiculous. Similar to Chicago as of late.

The difference between Babcock and Carlyle is that Babcock's team continued to play well after the top players started faltering. The underlying numbers are still good, and they're a threat every year, inspite of seeing lots of injuries to important players.
- Feeling Glucky?

Goes to show you the importance of the depth of the team AND the farm team.
For some reason, the players in Detroit seem to come in and immediately fit in the system.

like i said he got 180 mins on the PP. more than alot of very good NHL players. he was 8th on the team. that's not insignificant PP time.

would he be better than bozak? probably. do both players suck currently? yes.
- clark_griswold

I think early on...he got loads of PP time with Clarkson on the 2nd unit.. Clarkson who had one of the worst PP points per minute in the NHL..or something like that

Fact: Horachek has never been a good coach.

Fact: replacing something bad with something worse isn't going to give you good results.
- Feeling Glucky?

This roster isnt giving u good results period. Sorry Gluck, i know u had high hopes this year pal.

Leafs got worse after RC fired. Fact
rC won a cup. Fact

Kadri would be better with more icetime. Hypothetical
Anyone could have win with ducks 07 roster. Hypothetical.

I love it too

- clark_griswold

I never said the last 2. You also said some nonsense about me saying I said the team improves when RC fired (I certainly did not). So yeah, saying people said something they didn't. Love it.

Did they get better when they hired him? No.

I think early on...he got loads of PP time with Clarkson on the 2nd unit.. Clarkson who had one of the worst PP points per minute in the NHL..or something like that
- senstroll

Only thing that can be proven are his numbers.

Kadri plays less mins with weaker line mates.... And score more /60.

I want the best players playing. Kadri should have been on the pp more. No question.
- burn

not true.
it is true though that Kadri is a better fit to play between JVR and Kessel, and that will surely happen next season. Bozak will probably end up as 3rd C and first line PP and PK.

http://www.thestar.com/sp...line_despite_himself.html

I never said the last 2. You also said some nonsense about me saying I said the team improves when RC fired (I certainly did not). So yeah, saying people said something they didn't. Love it.

Did they get better when they hired him? No.
- burn

Youre a beauty Burn. Dont ever change. Promise?

I think early on...he got loads of PP time with Clarkson on the 2nd unit.. Clarkson who had one of the worst PP points per minute in the NHL..or something like that
- senstroll

1pts on the pp, but you can't take him off the pp.... Take Kadri off who was one of the teams best the year before. Perfect sense.

Goes to show you the importance of the depth of the team AND the farm team.
For some reason, the players in Detroit seem to come in and immediately fit in the system.
- Pecafan Fan

YES! That is the foundation I think (hope) Shanahan has been undertaking. A consistent team philosophy that starts in the AHL.

No.

He coached a star laden team to a cup, as most coaches who win the cup tend to do.


What makes him a bad coach was that he refused to take the lessons he could have learned from a team with strong possession guys on it, and as those players moved on, he didn't do anything with his system to help keep the puck under his team's control, and wound up losing more and more games as the possession numbers dropped. Something that reversed as soon as he left.


And what makes things even worse is that he didn't stick to the defensive system he tried running when he first got to the Leafs, and just let them play a loose, all offense style that burned itself out year after year.


Is that not enough?
- Feeling Glucky?

Its been stated numerous times that the players didn't listen to him, how many times after games did he look confused as to what happened? He's also said that the players do things one way in practice and then don't do the same things during the game.

That's not a bad coach, it's players not buying in

Only thing that can be proven are his numbers.
- clark_griswold

Agreed. And the numbers show he's a top line talent who's not being used properly.

Youre a beauty Burn. Dont ever change. Promise?
- clark_griswold

No need to change.

If you are going to say people said something they didn't, you can change though...

Its been stated numerous times that the players didn't listen to him, how many times after games did he look confused as to what happened? He's also said that the players do things one way in practice and then don't do the same things during the game.

That's not a bad coach, it's players not buying in
- PatC80

Isn't it the coach's job to get the players to buy in?

Only thing that can be proven are his numbers.
- clark_griswold

I thought stats didnt matter

not true.
it is true though that Kadri is a better fit to play between JVR and Kessel, and that will surely happen next season. Bozak will probably end up as 3rd C and first line PP and PK.

http://www.thestar.com/sp...line_despite_himself.html
- MaximusAurelius

Yes it is.

Isn't it the coach's job to get the players to buy in?
- Feeling Glucky?

Isn't it the coach's job to get the players to buy in?
- Feeling Glucky?

It will be easy with Babcock-buy in or take your gear off.

Goes to show you the importance of the depth of the team AND the farm team.
For some reason, the players in Detroit seem to come in and immediately fit in the system.
- Pecafan Fan

Having a consistent system at the NHL level for the AHL team to mimic probably has a lot to do with that.



Eeeeeeeeeeeee

Isn't it the coach's job to get the players to buy in?
- Feeling Glucky?

I think that's the beauty of Babcock... he had hundreds of different Red Wings buying in ALL THE TIME for 10 years. Even the really good coaches are switching teams every 5 years or so when their 'message gets stale'.

At the same time, it's not fair to blame a coach that's been with a team for a few years when they team starts tuning him out. This happens to almost everyone (except Babcock).

not true.
it is true though that Kadri is a better fit to play between JVR and Kessel, and that will surely happen next season. Bozak will probably end up as 3rd C and first line PP and PK.

http://www.thestar.com/sp...line_despite_himself.html
- MaximusAurelius

where does that article list pp/60?

I think that's the beauty of Babcock... he had hundreds of different Red Wings buying in ALL THE TIME for 10 years. Even the really good coaches are switching teams every 5 years or so when their 'message gets stale'.
- 1979AD

I don't get the overrated tag he gets. He's coached some mediocre teams into the playoffs.