https://streamable.com/zgvt
- CanuckDon

Jensons goal

Jensons goal
- CanuckDon

Defazio scores from Clendenning and Hamilton 2-0

The real metaphor should be is Burrows is your old reliable 1999 Volvo that should be sold for 1000 and you are asking 10 times the amount . In two more years you will be lucky to see it for 35 dollars

Vrbata is your 2007 Honda CRV
- VANTEL

I still wouldn't trade either of them for a just a god damn scratch and win. What kind of person just reduces their assets without getting anything in return for them? Draft picks are valuable, but if you think they are THAT valuable then you are overvaluing either them or undervaluing our players.

Jensons goal
- CanuckDon

Who the hell was defending him? I bet that guy was drafted in the second round.

I still wouldn't trade either of them for a just a god damn scratch and win. What kind of person just reduces their assets without getting anything in return for them? Draft picks are valuable, but if you think they are THAT valuable then you are overvaluing either them or undervaluing our players.
- Gullzy

This team is an ugly pig , and the only way to fix it is by getting rid of the pieces that make it an ugly pig. This team has won 3 playoff games since the end of the 2011 finals. This team is soft and has proved over and over it is not a competitor when it comes to the playoffs. This is the core that you are standing here defending.

As much as you love them and the players other fan bases and mgmt don't share your passion

I still wouldn't trade either of them for a just a god damn scratch and win. What kind of person just reduces their assets without getting anything in return for them? Draft picks are valuable, but if you think they are THAT valuable then you are overvaluing either them or undervaluing our players.
- Gullzy

Mike Gillis

Mike Gillis
- A_SteamingLombardi

Ah yes, the Gillis method: demand way too much for your players, create an ongoing soap opera that spans multiple years, say the landscape changed, say the landscape changed again, and then let the player's agent orchestrate a deal for not only less than you were originally asking but less than the player is worth. Genius.

This team is an ugly pig , and the only way to fix it is by getting rid of the pieces that make it an ugly pig. This team has won 3 playoff games since the end of the 2011 finals. This team is soft and has proved over and over it is not a competitor when it comes to the playoffs. This is the core that you are standing here defending.

As much as you love them and the players other fan bases and mgmt don't share your passion
- VANTEL

I don't give a poop about the players that play on this team; I'd trade the Sedins if it made sense (it never will).

I've never bought a jersey, or gave a damn about their autographs. For me, it's the TEAM, and essentially giving away my best assets to my competitors is not something I'm interested in.

Anyway, the best time to recoup draft picks for your aging assets is at the trade deadline. The offseason is where you make hockey trades. If Benning wants to rebuild, he'll do it at the TDL. If he is serious about a retool, he will make hockey trades using a combination of his top 6 assets this offseason.

I was referring to Burrows as a mediocre player not Vrbata , but Vrbatas value will drop as the year goes on seeing he won't be playing with the Twins

As much as Canuck fans and mgmt see value in Burrows , other managers and fan bases don't see the same value. They see an aging player with inflated numbers because of the twins
- VANTEL

Vrbata was a proven commodity before he played with the Sedins. And what you said about Burrows is pretty much on the money; that is, anyone in the Canucks' organization knows how important he is to the team so he will not fetch return value in any sort of trade proposal. As you noted, other managers simply look at stats and thus feel he isn't a quality player which is simply being myopic. Burrows does so many things well, most of which are unfortunately non-quantifiable. His value cannot be translated to pure numbers.

Again, what you are proposing is basically change for the sake of change. I think the lottery ticket analogy is right on the money. What type of player do you expect/hope for when drafting 87th? basically you are equating that pick, then, with what type of player you feel Burrows is. I would put down any amount of money to do a poll to determine if anyone else on this board or elsewhere feels that a 87th pick is worth more than Burrows. Carol, perhaps you could set up such a poll?

I don't give a poop about the players that play on this team; I'd trade the Sedins if it made sense (it never will).

I've never bought a jersey, or gave a damn about their autographs. For me, it's the TEAM, and essentially giving away my best assets to my competitors is not something I'm interested in.

Anyway, the best time to recoup draft picks for your aging assets is at the trade deadline. The offseason is where you make hockey trades. If Benning wants to rebuild, he'll do it at the TDL. If he is serious about a retool, he will make hockey trades using a combination of his top 6 assets this offseason.
- Gullzy

I will ask you a serious question.

Vrbata is coming off a 30 goal season with very decent assists . He has one full year remaining on his contract. You are suggesting that he will put up the same numbers playing most of this upcoming year with Bonino and Burrows as his linemate? When TDL comes around he will have two months left and then become an UFA. I am sorry I don't see him having more value then. I think his value is at the highest at the draft

Ah yes, the Gillis method: demand way too much for your players, create an ongoing soap opera that spans multiple years, say the landscape changed, say the landscape changed again, and then let the player's agent orchestrate a deal for not only less than you were originally asking but less than the player is worth. Genius.
- CubanBuffet

His greatest blunder.

I look at Lack, Tanev, Cassels, Horvat, Shinkaruk, the less than market value contracts, two presidents trophies, Stanley Cup finals appearance, and the Erhoff deal and think that he truly was a genius. This team fell off the second they decided to forgo their high-flying, offence first model and pursue a Boston model. Aquillini's hands are all over that change of philosophy. When Gillis decided he was going to go back that route, he was fired and replaced with the guy who had a hand in building the Boston model.

Since I started watching the Canucks, this team has thrived on an offence first, skill based philosophy. Ever since 2011 we've been taking steps back. I think we have to get back to what works for this team.

Vrbata was a proven commodity before he played with the Sedins. And what you said about Burrows is pretty much on the money; that is, anyone in the Canucks' organization knows how important he is to the team so he will not fetch return value in any sort of trade proposal. As you noted, other managers simply look at stats and thus feel he isn't a quality player which is simply being myopic. Burrows does so many things well, most of which are unfortunately non-quantifiable. His value cannot be translated to pure numbers.

Again, what you are proposing is basically change for the sake of change. I think the lottery ticket analogy is right on the money. What type of player do you expect/hope for when drafting 87th? basically you are equating that pick, then, with what type of player you feel Burrows is. I would put down any amount of money to do a poll to determine if anyone else on this board or elsewhere feels that a 87th pick is worth more than Burrows. Carol, perhaps you could set up such a poll?
- Zogg

Name me one team right now willing to give up a second for Burrows right now.

Yes I am making change for the sake of change because this team is fading at an alarming speed.

I would definitely like to have Grenier Baerstchi Virtanen COrrado In the line up instead of the usual suspects. I don't honestly think I could follow this team another year with minor tweaks

I will ask you a serious question.

Vrbata is coming off a 30 goal season with very decent assists . He has one full year remaining on his contract. You are suggesting that he will put up the same numbers playing most of this upcoming year with Bonino and Burrows as his linemate? When TDL comes around he will have two months left and then become an UFA. I am sorry I don't see him having more value then. I think his value is at the highest at the draft
- VANTEL

As long as he is on pace for 20-25 goals, he will net more at the TDL then at the draft.

If we can somehow land a defenceman that can hit the net from the blueline, every one of our top 6 players value will increase by the time the TDL comes around.

I will ask you a serious question.

Vrbata is coming off a 30 goal season with very decent assists . He has one full year remaining on his contract. You are suggesting that he will put up the same numbers playing most of this upcoming year with Bonino and Burrows as his linemate? When TDL comes around he will have two months left and then become an UFA. I am sorry I don't see him having more value then. I think his value is at the highest at the draft
- VANTEL

yup

Name me one team right now willing to give up a second for Burrows right now.

Yes I am making change for the sake of change because this team is fading at an alarming speed.

I would definitely like to have Grenier Baerstchi Virtanen COrrado In the line up instead of the usual suspects. I don't honestly think I could follow this team another year with minor tweaks
- VANTEL

I want them to make the team too. You can still have that happen, and you dont have to give your players away for lottery tickets. I'm being critical of your proposal, not the thought of trading those players. I'd rather we get a player who at least projects to make the NHL and a draft pick for each. Not just a couple of bottom 190 draft picks for Vrbata and Burrows.

If it means that some of our prospects have to spend 50 odd more games in the AHL, then so be it. It's better for some of their development anyway.

yup
- A_SteamingLombardi

You think Vrbata is worth more ar TDL?

You think Vrbata is worth more ar TDL?
- VANTEL

His value is highest now, plus this years FA list sucks.

I want them to make the team too. You can still have that happen, and you dont have to give your players away for lottery tickets. I'm being critical of your proposal, not the thought of trading those players. I'd rather we get a player who at least projects to make the NHL and a draft pick for each. Not just a couple of bottom 190 draft picks for Vrbata and Burrows.
- Gullzy

Let's stop calling the first round picks , lottery tickets. That is called buying blue chip stocks. Some don't pan out but if you do your homework a good percentage work out. Lottery tickets 1 in 50 million turn out. Very big difference.

Well if you think that Vrbata is worth more than a first, and that an aging Buurow is going to get you a high return , I see dispointment in your summer

His value is highest now, plus this years FA list sucks.
- A_SteamingLombardi

Exactly

Exactly
- VANTEL

Anyone older than 27 and not named Sedin should be traded

Anyone older than 27 and not named Sedin should be traded
- A_SteamingLombardi

Yup

Oshawa in OV

Oshawa in OV
- A_SteamingLombardi

Cassels another assist

Oshawa in OV
- A_SteamingLombardi

Generals win! Cassels with the winning assist. Gritty performance

His greatest blunder.

I look at Lack, Tanev, Cassels, Horvat, Shinkaruk, the less than market value contracts, two presidents trophies, Stanley Cup finals appearance, and the Erhoff deal and think that he truly was a genius. This team fell off the second they decided to forgo their high-flying, offence first model and pursue a Boston model. Aquillini's hands are all over that change of philosophy. When Gillis decided he was going to go back that route, he was fired and replaced with the guy who had a hand in building the Boston model.


Since I started watching the Canucks, this team has thrived on an offence first, skill based philosophy. Ever since 2011 we've been taking steps back. I think we have to get back to what works for this team.
- Gullzy

I'm not going to say that Gillis was a complete idiot, but I'm also not willing to give him credit for all the good that he did while blaming the Aquillinis for all the bad.

His below market value contracts were good at the time, and if they had led to a cup then I would have no reason to complain, but they didn't lead to a cup and they came at the cost if giving out NTCs like they were candy even to players that should not have received one under any circumstances. Those value contracts are a big reason that we have so little roster flexibility today.