Which brings us back to Bylsma's teams never over achieving, something that if you are a great coach, you can get your team to do.

He isn't all to blame at all, but for a big name coach with a cup, he seems quite average
- sbroads24

Oh please anytime a team has the best player on the planet they are expected to win the Cup. The only reason he doesn't "over achieve" in many peoples eyes its impossible to do so when the Cup is what is expected.

I'd say it's both. Babcock has a knack for putting players in the best spots to succeed, and waiting until they are ready for bigger roles.
- sbroads24

I think Babcock was less likely to play the younger players, which ultimately helped them transition. I wonder if he waited too long on some of those players like Nyquist, Tatar, Jurco, etc. I don't know their stats, nor do I care to look. I wonder if fans thought he was waiting too long in some instances. The benefit either way was that Blashill was there to build them up.

When a goalie has a sub .900 save percentage in the playoffs there isn't much a coach can do unless he is playing 5 forwards on the ice at all times.

Are we really sitting here knocking a guy that has a system and isn't quick to make adjustments after coming from a guy who didn't have a system and a guy who had a pee wee system? When your system is the reason you have had the success in the regular season it would be hard to make adjustments on the fly.

Every coach has had issues where they aren't fast enough to make adjustments even the best ones. Hell Q is about to get knocked out of the playoffs are we saying he is a bad coach now?

You don't need a great coach to win in this league you need great players. You do need a good coach and I think Bylsma would do just fine here.
- Stripes77

The Hawks have made it to the conference finals in 5 of the last 7 years, with two cups

Oh please anytime a team has the best player on the planet they are expected to win the Cup. The only reason he doesn't "over achieve" in many peoples eyes its impossible to do so when the Cup is what is expected.
- Stripes77

Even Gretzky lost in the Cup Final. He didn't win with LA or St. Louis, but I am pretty sure most thought he would will them to a win in each city.

Oh please anytime a team has the best player on the planet they are expected to win the Cup. The only reason he doesn't "over achieve" in many peoples eyes its impossible to do so when the Cup is what is expected.
- Stripes77

Ok, Bylsma is awesome.

Detroit traded a ton away too don't forget.

Yet guys like Nyquist, Tatar, Abdelkader, Helm, Flipulla,Hudler all were developed quite nicely.
- sbroads24

Not by Babcock. Detroit keeps their players in the minors longer than any other team in the league.

This isn't football. These in game adjustments you speak of aren't nearly as big of a factor as it is in football.

Going from a 1-2-2 to a 1-3-1 or a 2-2-1 is pretty much the only changes that get made in hockey.

There is personnel changes mid game but then we hear complaints like how Lindy used to shuffle his lines all the time.

Coaching isn't nearly as important as it is in football. You need a competent coach no doubt but there is no such thing as a "Belichick" in hockey especially in the salary cap era.

The Hawks have made it to the conference finals in 5 of the last 7 years, with two cups
- sbroads24

Those teams are built better than the Pens its not that hard to comprehend.

Also the Hawks didn't have sub par goaltending.

They also have 2 Stud D something the Pens don't have, they also had 4 lines they could roll no questions asked.

Not by Babcock. Detroit keeps their players in the minors longer than any other team in the league.
- Pierceme69

Yes by Babcock. You don't think he had a hand in personnel decisions?

Again, he also was great at developing guys at the NHL level.

Justin Abdelkader went from a 4th line grinder, to eventually playing a top 6 role when he was ready. Babcock did this with numerous players.

You would never see a Cody Hodgson or Mikhail Grigorenko mismanagement in Detroit

Those teams are built better than the Pens its not that hard to comprehend.

Also the Hawks didn't have sub par goaltending.

They also have 2 Stud D something the Pens don't have, they also had 4 lines they could roll no questions asked.
- Stripes77

I can comprehend just fine, you brought up the Hawks, I didn't

Yes by Babcock. You don't think he had a hand in personnel decisions?

Again, he also was great at developing guys at the NHL level.

Justin Abdelkader went from a 4th line grinder, to eventually playing a top 6 role when he was ready. Babcock did this with numerous players.

You would never see a Cody Hodgson or Mikhail Grigorenko mismanagement in Detroit
- sbroads24

And how many cups did he help win?

Yes by Babcock. You don't think he had a hand in personnel decisions?

Again, he also was great at developing guys at the NHL level.

Justin Abdelkader went from a 4th line grinder, to eventually playing a top 6 role when he was ready. Babcock did this with numerous players.

You would never see a Cody Hodgson or Mikhail Grigorenko mismanagement in Detroit
- sbroads24

I don't think he had as much say in personnel decisions as you seem to.

Yes by Babcock. You don't think he had a hand in personnel decisions?

Again, he also was great at developing guys at the NHL level.

Justin Abdelkader went from a 4th line grinder, to eventually playing a top 6 role when he was ready. Babcock did this with numerous players.

You would never see a Cody Hodgson or Mikhail Grigorenko mismanagement in Detroit
- sbroads24

And somehow this is on Bylsma?

It's funny Girgorenko seemed to finally start developing the right way when the GM of the Buffalo Sabres sent him to Rochester.

I don't think he had as much say in personnel decisions as you seem to.
- Pierceme69

I know from a very good source that Babcock now has way more power than he ever did in Detroit.

I don't think he had as much say in personnel decisions as you seem to.
- Pierceme69

He did though
http://www.mlive.com/redw...bcock_ponders_future.html

"I am part of making decisions here, but I have no skill-set to be the general manager"

He did though
http://www.mlive.com/redw...bcock_ponders_future.html

"I am part of making decisions here, but I have no skill-set to be the general manager"
- sbroads24

He has a say almost every coach has a say but you're saying he is the reason this guy was traded or not is kind of funny.

He has a say almost every coach has a say but you're saying he is the reason this guy was traded or not is kind of funny.
- Stripes77

Oh god. Ok, Babcock is nothing special. Bylsma is great

What young talent did you want Bylsma to develop? Shero traded it all away.
- ImThatGuy

Yep. This seems to get lost an awful lot. If you're apportioning blame for what happened in PIT down the stretch, a huge percentage of it has to hang on Shero.

I wouldn't absolve Bylsma totally, but .. you're talking about a guy who won like > 65% of the games he coached in > 400 GP at the NHL level. That's not nothing.

Oh god. Ok, Babcock is nothing special. Bylsma is great
- sbroads24

You're giving credit to someone that has just as many cups and just about the same winning percentage as the guy you're ripping apart. It's freaking comical.

Also I am willing to bet 90% of the posters on this site couldn't tell me what system their teams are playing most of the time unless its the damn 1-3-1. So talking about systems is another thing I find extremely comical.

Yep. This seems to get lost an awful lot. If you're apportioning blame for what happened in PIT down the stretch, a huge percentage of it has to hang on Shero.

I wouldn't absolve Bylsma totally, but .. you're talking about a guy who won like > 65% of the games he coached in > 400 GP at the NHL level. That's not nothing.
- Travis Yost

I agree. Every coach has their faults but for a team to win a Cup, something that requires almost everything to go right (no injuries, great goaltending, good matchups in the playoffs). It's not easy to win its even harder to win twice.

Yep. This seems to get lost an awful lot. If you're apportioning blame for what happened in PIT down the stretch, a huge percentage of it has to hang on Shero.

I wouldn't absolve Bylsma totally, but .. you're talking about a guy who won like > 65% of the games he coached in > 400 GP at the NHL level. That's not nothing.
- Travis Yost

I understand the "win now" mode year after year. When you have Crosby and Malkin in their prime you kind of have to. But his "I won't be outbid" mindset really cost the penguins long term. There was no balance.

Shero needed to make the trades year after year due to the fact there was very little in the pipeline to fill in. Which was in turn also his fault.

I still don't understand the Jersey Shero fit.

I understand the "win now" mode year after year. When you have Crosby and Malkin in their prime you kind of have to. But his "I won't be outbid" mindset really cost the penguins long term. There was no balance.

Shero needed to make the trades year after year due to the fact there was very little in the pipeline to fill in. Which was in turn also his fault.

I still don't understand the Jersey Shero fit.
- ImThatGuy

The bottom six he developed (or acquired) was an absolute joke. More or less impossible to win these days without adequate depth.

The bottom six he developed (or acquired) was an absolute joke. More or less impossible to win these days without adequate depth.
- Travis Yost

Complete team depth including top 6 (other than goal) was never anything to write home about really.


How's the new gig going?

Where do you see Buffalo next year? (Bills and Sabres)

Yep. This seems to get lost an awful lot. If you're apportioning blame for what happened in PIT down the stretch, a huge percentage of it has to hang on Shero.

I wouldn't absolve Bylsma totally, but .. you're talking about a guy who won like > 65% of the games he coached in > 400 GP at the NHL level. That's not nothing.
- Travis Yost

I thought you were too famous for us now



His lax approach to defence and obsession with veterans (or at least that's what people have said) is what worries me most about him. On a team where the young guys are the primary focus (and probably better players anyways) I really don't want a coach who is going to be giving the top 6 and top 4 minutes to gionta and gorges. And can a team that was such a mess in it's own end really afford to hire a coach where one of his glaring flaws is defence?

The bottom six he developed (or acquired) was an absolute joke. More or less impossible to win these days without adequate depth.
- Travis Yost

I think the Ducks are proving this adequately this post season.