So we're still cleaning up Darcy's messes with Grigorenko and Hodgson.

He's behind

Ryan
Spezza
Malkin
Barkov
Hedman
Doughty
Seguin


He's around the van Reimsdyk, Landeskog caliber
- sbroads24

Eric Staal was highly rated as well, put up 7 straight 70+ point seasons after his rookie year

We stink.
- mhp

I feel for you:

I feel for you:


- Sabresfan-365

My god.

All isn't so bad though, we won it all 2 years ago. And 2007, 20004.

Pretty sure bailey has already bulked up a lot and is around 210-215 now.

My god.

All isn't so bad though, we won it all 2 years ago. And 2007, 20004.
- mhp

Yea just trying to enjoy it while it lasts. In typical bluejays fashion i await there 4-20 run in July

I'd rather trade Bogosian over Pysyk or Zadorov, but how about we just don't trade any more defensemen until we can either sign someone or find out if McCabe can play?

Tim Murray's idea of a good defensemen scares me though, because I also think Bogosian is mediocre and Murray loves him. Murray also loved Jared Cowen, and he's a nightmare
- sbroads24

I dont know how you can call bogosian mediocre after seeing 30 games from a twenty four year old. Most Dmen dont fully mature till around 26-27. Bogosian was a third overall pick for a reason.

I dont know how you can call bogosian mediocre after seeing 30 games from a twenty four year old. Most Dmen dont fully mature till around 26-27. Bogosian was a third overall pick for a reason.
- ASU_Sabres14

Most d-men aren't taken 3rd overall.

I dont know how you can call bogosian mediocre after seeing 30 games from a twenty four year old. Most Dmen dont fully mature till around 26-27. Bogosian was a third overall pick for a reason.
- ASU_Sabres14

broads has a hate/love fest for Bogo/Myers respectively.

Just let it go.

I'd rather trade Bogosian over Pysyk or Zadorov, but how about we just don't trade any more defensemen until we can either sign someone or find out if McCabe can play?

Tim Murray's idea of a good defensemen scares me though, because I also think Bogosian is mediocre and Murray loves him. Murray also loved Jared Cowen, and he's a nightmare
- sbroads24

Jesus.

A. He was the 9th ranked NA skater coming into the draft.
B. The GM always chooses the first round players. It's usually the later guys, past 40-50, that the AGM and the scouting staff are mostly responsible for. The GM only has so much time to scout players, so they scout the best ones and leave the depth guys for the scouting team. Ultimately, yes, the GM decides on the pick, but he relies on 2nd hand information from the staff. Therefore, Cowen was completely chosen and completely scouted by Bryan Murray.
C. Supply a link supporting this whole TM loves Cowen. He didn't pan out, for a top 10 pick, he looks like a bust. But I don't think they choose him 9th overall if they didn't think very highly of him.

Jesus.

A. He was the 9th ranked NA skater coming into the draft.
B. The GM always chooses the first round players. It's usually the later guys, past 40-50, that the AGM and the scouting staff are mostly responsible for. The GM only has so much time to scout players, so they scout the best ones and leave the depth guys for the scouting team. Ultimately, yes, the GM decides on the pick, but he relies on 2nd hand information from the staff. Therefore, Cowen was completely chosen and completely scouted by Bryan Murray.
C. Supply a link supporting this whole TM loves Cowen. He didn't pan out, for a top 10 pick, he looks like a bust. But I don't think they choose him 9th overall if they didn't think very highly of him.
- TheSabresTaco

http://senators.nhl.com/club/blogpost.htm?id=20251

http://senators.nhl.com/club/blogpost.htm?id=20251
- Sabresfan-365

That didn't take long

Murray =Infallible

Even when you point out facts and stuff

http://senators.nhl.com/club/blogpost.htm?id=20251
- Sabresfan-365

Duly noted. Yep, he liked him two years ago. Remember when we loved Brad Richards 4 years ago? Cowen was still developing and progressing two years ago. These days if he's not regressing, he's stagnant. They, like so many others, supplied a contract based on the player's growth. Once that contract was issued, he has basically stagnated. I think if TM was working on that contract today, he sure as poop wouldn't get paid over 3 million dollars.

Just because a GM loves the growth of a young player from years ago (Cody Hodgson) doesn't mean he gets the same respect today (Cody Hodgson)

That didn't take long

Murray =Infallible

Even when you point out facts and stuff
- sbroads24

No. He's not. But making judgments based on two year old articles is fallacy.

I dont know how you can call bogosian mediocre after seeing 30 games from a twenty four year old. Most Dmen dont fully mature till around 26-27. Bogosian was a third overall pick for a reason.
- ASU_Sabres14

He has a career high of 30 points and has been benched for defensive lapses. He's played 400 games.

Defensemen who has defensive lapses, and isn't above average offensively. I'd say mediocre is the right word

Duly noted. Yep, he liked him two years ago. Remember when we loved Brad Richards 4 years ago? Cowen was still developing and progressing two years ago. These days if he's not regressing, he's stagnant. They, like so many others, supplied a contract based on the player's growth. Once that contract was issued, he has basically stagnated. I think if TM was working on that contract today, he sure as poop wouldn't get paid over 3 million dollars.

Just because a GM loves the growth of a young player from years ago (Cody Hodgson) doesn't mean he gets the same respect today (Cody Hodgson)
- TheSabresTaco

I get that, but his judgement was clearly wrong on that one. They were looking for a deal that would look like a bargain in a few years a la Karlsson and swung miss. It happens, and hopefully he's learned from it.

That didn't take long

Murray =Infallible

Even when you point out facts and stuff
- sbroads24

I don't get the love. I see that his uncle assigned him the job to re-sign him his bridge contract and a lot of words where it's his job to develop and our job to help him to develop which is said for any prospect. Seems a bit of a reach to assume the love.

No. He's not. But making judgments based on two year old articles is fallacy.
- TheSabresTaco

Not fallacy. It's 2 examples that I pointed out and I said I'm nervous about his idea of what a good defensemen is.

Let's also not forget he traded away a guy who impressed LA last season as well

I don't get the love. I see that his uncle assigned him the job to re-sign him his bridge contract and a lot of words where it's his job to develop and our job to help him to develop which is said for any prospect. Seems a bit of a reach to assume the love.
- GilPerreault11

I have read other articles/blogs whatever that Cowen was Murray's (Tims) pick. He wanted him.

It's ok, they all pick busts now and then.

I have read other articles/blogs whatever that Cowen was Murray's (Tims) pick. He wanted him.

It's ok, they all pick busts now and then.
- sbroads24

They do or is it only after they trade 6'8" ones that you can get over that they do?

I kid, we all know that GM's aren't infallible, it's posters on Hb that are infallible.

I get that, but his judgement was clearly wrong on that one. They were looking for a deal that would look like a bargain in a few years a la Karlsson and swung miss. It happens, and hopefully he's learned from it.
- Sabresfan-365

What's to learn though? Cowen held out and it was TM's responsibility to get him on board before the season began. He was almost forced to pay him more than what they thought he was worth. I mean, this is no Ville Leino contract or Brad Richards contract, but it's not that great either. 3.1 million is hardly that harmful to a cap. His contract is based on how he was developing like Hodgson or JVR or whatever. Sometimes, more often than not, the guys keep progressing. Yet sometimes, guys don't. That's no ones fault really, just is what it is. Sometimes you hit, sometimes you miss, and a good GM can't be afraid to make mistakes. Anyone who's good at their job has made mistakes, learned from it and figured out ways to avoid those mistakes again.

Murray also made great moves in Ottawa too.

I think people forget that one of the reasons he was hired is because he was sort of running the show there.

And btw. Bogo was brought in to ultimately be a middle pairing Dman. He does that well enough. Good luck trading for a young top 2 guy.

What's to learn though? Cowen held out and it was TM's responsibility to get him on board before the season began. He was almost forced to pay him more than what they thought he was worth. I mean, this is no Ville Leino contract or Brad Richards contract, but it's not that great either. 3.1 million is hardly that harmful to a cap. His contract is based on how he was developing like Hodgson or JVR or whatever. Sometimes, more often than not, the guys keep progressing. Yet sometimes, guys don't. That's no ones fault really, just is what it is. Sometimes you hit, sometimes you miss, and a good GM can't be afraid to make mistakes. Anyone who's good at their job has made mistakes, learned from it and figured out ways to avoid those mistakes again.
- TheSabresTaco

That's where im at with the whole cowen thing.

Murray also made great moves in Ottawa too.

I think people forget that one of the reasons he was hired is because he was sort of running the show there.
- sbroads24

I think that's a big leap, he was GM in Binghamton, I think ran scouting but his uncle was head honcho