15 goalies make within $300k of Ryan Miller or more than him. He's getting market value. Could we probably have gotten away with paying him less? Well, we like to think so, but I don't think Benning offered him more just out of the goodness of his heart.
- KB3Point0

How many of those were signed to 3X6 deals as a 34 year old ?

If he didn't sign him out of the goodness of his heart I find it more concerning that he thought he would be anything more than average as he continues to age.

You are sidetracking me though, none of this matters because that is what Benning chose to pay and if this contract along with others he has signed means that he has to move other assets at a reduced price just to fit his RFA's in, he has made a mistake.

How many of those were signed to 3X6 deals as a 34 year old ?

If he didn't sign him out of the goodness of his heart I find it more concerning that he thought he would be anything more than average as he continues to age.

You are sidetracking me though, none of this matters because that is what Benning chose to pay and if this contract along with others he has signed means that he has to move other assets at a reduced price just to fit his RFA's in, he has made a mistake.
- belcherbd

The bipolars at work again. The guy spent his first year cleaning up the mess of the previous regime and hes already being thrown under the bus? What a (frank)in joke....

The guy still had to work within the parameters set out for him by his boss - crazy notion eh? I really dont think Miller is the issue....

JBs mistakes are starting to add up. He is showing he is a rookie. He needs to fix that now
- VANTEL

None of his mistakes are irreparable though, at least not yet. He seems to keep his contract terms modest and hasn't dished out NTCs that I'm aware of.

Much of his grade for this season will be made in the couple weeks though...

None of his mistakes are irreparable though, at least not yet. He seems to keep his contract terms modest and hasn't dished out NTCs that I'm aware of.

Much of his grade for this season will be made in the couple weeks though...
- AlexF

A dose of sanity....thank you....

You know, its quite possible that there isn't a market for Miller...and frankly, the Canucks defense was insanely porous this past season.

I, myself, despise Miller and rue the day we signed him but let's be honest, he IS NOT the problem.

I don't like his contract either but FA has mandated this team make the playoffs for the extra gate. This doesn't happen with Lack in yet from the start of the season, it just doesn't.

We all know the mandate, so all the pissing and moaning makes zero sense to me. This is going to be a slow turnover and 1st round exits for the foreseeable future. It's what FA wants and if JB doesn't deliver, FA will find someone who will.....
- chompsey

I don't know whether or not the Canucks would of made the playoffs with Lack starting from day one, but I do know that they made the playoffs with him as a starter down the stretch when the pressure was on and he posted much better #'s than Miller in front of the same defense in a similar amount of games. (45-41)

I agree we all know the mandate, and if that mandate remains to make the playoffs, you don't move the better, younger goalie unless the return is substantial.

The bipolars at work again. The guy spent his first year cleaning up the mess of the previous regime and hes already being thrown under the bus? What a (frank)in joke....

The guy still had to work within the parameters set out for him by his boss - crazy notion eh? I really dont think Miller is the issue....
- chompsey

I don't know whether or not the Canucks would of made the playoffs with Lack starting from day one, but I do know that they made the playoffs with him as a starter down the stretch when the pressure was on and he posted much better #'s than Miller in front of the same defense in a similar amount of games. (45-41)

I agree we all know the mandate, and if that mandate remains to make the playoffs, you don't move the better, younger goalie unless the return is substantial.
- belcherbd

That says to me 2 things....

A) there is no market for Miller
B) JB is sending a message to potential future UFA's that he is a man of his word

It's all business....

The bipolars at work again. The guy spent his first year cleaning up the mess of the previous regime and hes already being thrown under the bus? What a (frank)in joke....

The guy still had to work within the parameters set out for him by his boss - crazy notion eh? I really dont think Miller is the issue....
- chompsey

Sure all of this is true and it isn't about throwing him under the bus, it's pointing out his mistakes as I see them.

I'm not saying that Miller is the reason this team was bounced by Calgary, or won't win a Stanley cup.
Miller also isn't the reason this team made the playoffs, but he might be the reason that this team moves a goalie who outperformed him and likely not bring back a substantial asset.

I'm saying that Miller didn't pull his weight and Benning should bear some responsibility for that.

That says to me 2 things....

A) there is no market for Miller
B) JB is sending a message to potential future UFA's that he is a man of his word

It's all business....
- chompsey

Sure, but that doesn't excuse him from criticism in my mind, which seems to be what the debate around here always centers around.

That says to me 2 things....

A) there is no market for Miller
B) JB is sending a message to potential future UFA's that he is a man of his word

It's all business....
- chompsey

Not entirely responding to your point, which I agree with, but with the Canucks just having signed Cannata, Markstrom already a pro, and Demko also in the pipe there may be a logjam building in net. If not now, we'll have to move a goalie soon.

If we're keeping Miller, which appears is the case, then Lack is the obvious candidate given I don't think there'd be much of a return for Markstrom.

Sure all of this is true and it isn't about throwing him under the bus, it's pointing out his mistakes as I see them.

I'm not saying that Miller is the reason this team was bounced by Calgary, or won't win a Stanley cup.
Miller also isn't the reason this team made the playoffs, but he might be the reason that this team moves a goalie who outperformed him and likely not bring back a substantial asset.

I'm saying that Miller didn't pull his weight and Benning should bear some responsibility for that.
- belcherbd

That's areally poor way to look at it, with all due respect Mr. Belcher....

Let's pretend for a minute that Markstrom didn't have the playoff run he had, we aren't even talking about this.

No one could have predicted Markstrom's renaissance. JB made a goaltending decision last summer based on the fact that he had 1 NHL goalie. Until Markstroms playoff run, he had proven everything BUT....

Now Markstrom has put himself in the conversation and we as fans are upset about this? That is so stupid, I don't even have the words....

What if JB trades Lack and suddenly Markstrom becomes Ben Bishop? What if he doesn't? We don't know, but we need to move an asset while the iron as hot and frankly, I'd rather Miller mentor Markstrom than Lack.....

Not entirely responding to your point, which I agree with, but with the Canucks just having signed Cannata, Markstrom already a pro, and Demko also in the pipe there may be a logjam building in net. If not now, we'll have to move a goalie soon.
- AlexF

I'm as much a fan of Lack as belcher or the next guy, but this is a business and hindsight is a cruel cruel judge.

Like I said, I'd rather have Miller mentor Markstrom than Lack while maximizing the return of our wealthiest position by moving Lack....

JBs mistakes are starting to add up. He is showing he is a rookie. He needs to fix that now
- VANTEL

Can't fairly judge him until the end of next season.

Sure all of this is true and it isn't about throwing him under the bus, it's pointing out his mistakes as I see them.

I'm not saying that Miller is the reason this team was bounced by Calgary, or won't win a Stanley cup.
Miller also isn't the reason this team made the playoffs, but he might be the reason that this team moves a goalie who outperformed him and likely not bring back a substantial asset.

I'm saying that Miller didn't pull his weight and Benning should bear some responsibility for that.
- belcherbd

It's about accountability. You have to take the good with the bad. If you make mistakes you are going to be called out on those. If you are successful you are also going to get the accolades, though. Right now, at least for me, the book is still out on Benning but just like everyone else I'm hoping he shows why the brass thought so highly of him.

That's areally poor way to look at it, with all due respect Mr. Belcher....

Let's pretend for a minute that Markstrom didn't have the playoff run he had, we aren't even talking about this.

No one could have predicted Markstrom's renaissance. JB made a goaltending decision last summer based on the fact that he had 1 NHL goalie. Until Markstroms playoff run, he had proven everything BUT....

Now Markstrom has put himself in the conversation and we as fans are upset about this? That is so stupid, I don't even have the words....

What if JB trades Lack and suddenly Markstrom becomes Ben Bishop? What if he doesn't? We don't know, but we need to move an asset while the iron as hot and frankly, I'd rather Miller mentor Markstrom than Lack.....
- chompsey

I disagree that Markstrom's AHL playoff's proved anything other than he is a good AHL goalie. It isn't a renaissance, as he has always been good in the AHL, although never as good as Lack.
Don't forget that Lack posted a .928 in his playoff runs opposed to Markstrom .919. Lack has outperformed Markstrom at every level since they were teenagers and still projects to be the better goalie IMO.

Obviously you cannot just look at the numbers as many factors come into play but I would bet money that Lack will continue to be the better goalie over both players careers, and that is likely the safer bet.

If Lack can garner a substantial asset, great.

If he can't there is no justification for moving him in favor of Markstrom IMO.

With our D core as weak as it is if we're trading Hamhuis for a pick(s) we're going full tank. I'm not necessarily against it if the return is good, just saying.

I know last year the org stated that playoffs were the goal. If it's the same this year we can't trade Hamhuis.
- AlexF

Yup. People need to get off the Trade Hamhuis Train. He's not going anywhere. He's been damn steady and still has some good years in front of him.

People get bored with their toys. They get mad when their old toy is killing it in someone elses toy box.

Bieksa on the other hand... Jesus. What a Train Wreck. Yet he's loved. I'm glad he finally got exposed for who is really is against Calgary. He was never that talented and he had a few years where he overachieved.

It's about accountability. You have to take the good with the bad. If you make mistakes you are going to be called out on those. If you are successful you are also going to get the accolades, though. Right now, at least for me, the book is still out on Benning but just like everyone else I'm hoping he shows why the brass thought so highly of him.
- Zogg

Exactly and I'm certainly not closing the book on him either, this offseason will be very tough with the cap and not having a lot of movable assets. It will be interesting to see how he does.

Yup. People need to get off the Trade Hamhuis Train. He's not going anywhere. He's been damn steady and still has some good years in front of him.

People get bored with their toys. They get mad when their old toy is killing it in someone elses toy box.

Bieksa on the other hand... Jesus. What a Train Wreck. Yet he's loved. I'm glad he finally got exposed for who is really is against Calgary. He was never that talented and he had a few years where he overachieved.
- rugdnit

Bieksa fights and he gives good interviews. That combo will go a long way towards being loved.

Not unlike Bieksa and Hamhuis, so whats your point?

The Canuck team I saw battled pretty hard together this year too. The facts are that they just aren't good enough....that has ZERO to do with fighting. Just how well did the Maple Leafs do with Clarkson and Phaneuf?

Not many teams fight anymore, the argument that tough = fighting is passe....

EDIT: Chicago had ONE player with over 65 PIMS (Shaw 67). Seabrook had 27.

Canucks had FOUR! If the Hawks were so tough and battled so hard, they would have had more than 2 guys with more than 50 PIMs from scrums alone....

This toughness/fighting argument is so overrated....
- chompsey

SOB sure showed those punks a thing or two....

WAIT A TICK!

Bieksa fights and he gives good interviews. That combo will go a long way towards being loved.
- AlexF

I knew you were going to say that... And you're right.

Unfortunately... I would prefer WINNING as a tool to sell tickets.

No wonder they don't have a cup... They built around the wrong guy.

Maybe I'm biased, but you Canuck fans sure don't give Miller enough credit. Yea it was unfortunate he went down with an injury late, but for watching him for years in Buffalo, you have one of the hardest working team player goalies in the league! The fight just doesn't stop in that guy.

P.S. I wouldn't mind taking Lack from you guys, but with the goalie market how it is right now I've got no clue what GMTM is deciding to do.

Not unlike Bieksa and Hamhuis, so whats your point?

The Canuck team I saw battled pretty hard together this year too. The facts are that they just aren't good enough....that has ZERO to do with fighting. Just how well did the Maple Leafs do with Clarkson and Phaneuf?

Not many teams fight anymore, the argument that tough = fighting is passe....

EDIT: Chicago had ONE player with over 65 PIMS (Shaw 67). Seabrook had 27.

Canucks had FOUR! If the Hawks were so tough and battled so hard, they would have had more than 2 guys with more than 50 PIMs from scrums alone....

This toughness/fighting argument is so overrated....
- chompsey

Much as I hate the Ducks they are big and mean and came within a c hair of beating the Hawks.

I disagree that Markstrom's AHL playoff's proved anything other than he is a good AHL goalie. It isn't a renaissance, as he has always been good in the AHL, although never as good as Lack.
Don't forget that Lack posted a .928 in his playoff runs opposed to Markstrom .919. Lack has outperformed Markstrom at every level since they were teenagers and still projects to be the better goalie IMO.

Obviously you cannot just look at the numbers as many factors come into play but I would bet money that Lack will continue to be the better goalie over both players careers, and that is likely the safer bet.

If Lack can garner a substantial asset, great.

If he can't there is no justification for moving him in favor of Markstrom IMO.
- belcherbd

Except that Markstrom's younger and wouldn't be upset at being a backup and mentored in the NHL for a couple of years. Lack wants to be a starter now and will want to be paid like an NHL starter. In a perfect non-salary cap world Miller would be traded for peanuts and Lack and Markstrom would be here. It's not going to happen, chances are the players won't ask for the full escalator and the cap for next year won't go up, leaving teams scrambling to dump salary.

Lack needs to go because we aren't keeping him if Miller is going to stay this year, he's not going to resign for less than starter money and a guarantee that he gets the bulk of the starts which with Miller on the books isn't going to happen. That being said, Lack probably nets us a late 2nd/early 3rd at this point with the cap being what it likely is.

Maybe I'm biased, but you Canuck fans sure don't give Miller enough credit. Yea it was unfortunate he went down with an injury late, but for watching him for years in Buffalo, you have one of the hardest working team player goalies in the league! The fight just doesn't stop in that guy.

P.S. I wouldn't mind taking Lack from you guys, but with the goalie market how it is right now I've got no clue what GMTM is deciding to do.
- Sabre_Tooth

Miller definitely doesn't get enough respect here.

you can have eddie for the 31st pick in a heartbeat

Miller definitely doesn't get enough respect here.

you can have eddie for the 31st pick in a heartbeat
- Mungo

That's the best deal.