Here's the scenario where I'd be happy with the deal: Skinner for Kunitz, Sutter, Harrington.

If the Canes are trading him I'm assuming they're going full rebuild. They're probably trading Eric Staal and maybe Jordan as well. At the deadline, Kunitz and Sutter could get some damn good packages. Harrington is a few years away from the NHL so he can contribute when Carolina starts to turn it around. When you look at our package as two firsts, a b prospect, and maybe some other assets, would that be a fair return for a concussion riddled player with a high cap hit?
- Victoro311

Picks and prospects for a 23 yr old 2x 30goal scorer. Teams would pay a lot for him. Despres would have been a good swap.....JR will probably go after him though and get into a race.

Picks and prospects for a 23 yr old 2x 30goal scorer. Teams would pay a lot for him. Despres would have been a good swap.....JR will probably go after him though and get into a race.
- sammy87

I was thinking the same thing about Despres.

If you were a Carolina fan, would you be happy with that return for one of your best players, a young one too boot? Both of us know about his concussion history. However, I can't see the scenario you have put out there be intriguing for Ron Francis to bite on. What does Kunitz, a 35-year old forward on the decline bring them? I don't see him getting a huge package as you say at the deadline. His value now is a second round pick probably. You think him going to Carolina, where he will be on a line with second rate talent, would increase the value?

You might be able to sell Francis on Sutter and Carolina should be interested in Harrington because their defense is poor and they need an influx of prospects.

Francis has his eyes on a much higher return. If Rutherford called about Skinner, I wouldn't be shocked if Francis' first name coming back as part of a package is a young PMD who ironically was chosen with the pick Carolina sent us for Staal.

Very curious as to what you think the value of Kris Letang is on the open market. Be careful, because Skinner's injury history pales in comparison to Letang.
- Oneonta Penguin

With guys like Vermette getting firsts and Winnik and Glencross getting seconds + do you really think all Kunitz gets at the deadline is a second? I find that difficult to believe seeing how he's one season removed from a 30 goal, 60 point season. He's going to be one of the better wingers available at the deadline.

Curious as to why you'd bring Letang into this since we've both talked about Letang before and pretty much agree. No one's going to pay his actual value due to his concussion history so we may as well keep him. But if Carolina's going full scale rebuild then what's the point on keeping Skinner and his 6 mil contract? May as well get assets back even if its below market value

Picks and prospects for a 23 yr old 2x 30goal scorer. Teams would pay a lot for him. Despres would have been a good swap.....JR will probably go after him though and get into a race.
- sammy87

Still having Despres would have made this much easier...

But yeah, a team on the rebuild is looking for picks and prospects, not older players. But if you trade for older players with the intention of turning them into picks and prospects at the deadline...


I don't know. Its not going to happen. I was just rattling of a scenario that I would find acceptable and be willing to pay with Skinner. I guess all this just goes to prove that I don't think we should trade for Skinner.

With guys like Vermette getting firsts and Winnik and Glencross getting seconds + do you really think all Kunitz gets at the deadline is a second? I find that difficult to believe seeing how he's one season removed from a 30 goal, 60 point season. He's going to be one of the better wingers available at the deadline.

Curious as to why you'd bring Letang into this since we've both talked about Letang before and pretty much agree. No one's going to pay his actual value due to his concussion history so we may as well keep him. But if Carolina's going full scale rebuild then what's the point on keeping Skinner and his 6 mil contract? May as well get assets back even if its below market value
- Victoro311

Kunitz had a major decline this year and he played most of the year with a generational talent. He is 35 too boot. You said he would bring a nice package back at the deadline. A second and a middling prospect isn't what I would call a good package. I don't for one minute think Kunitz would bring back a high return if he has another subpar season. He would be terrible in Carolina. People send ridiculous packages back for rentals at the deadline. However, if another decline happens in Carolina, which would almost be a given, his value drops more.

I brought up Letang because people continue to think he brings back a huge return. Yes, we do agree on this. Fact is, because of his contract and injury history, you get 68 cents not he dollar in return. You have a similar situation here. The only difference, Skinner has shown more ability to remain healthy the last two years ... 148 games played to Letang's 106.

If I were francis, I'd build around Faulk, Lindholm and Murphy and deal Ward, Staal, Staal, Skinner and find a way to unload Semin.

Would prefer semin if Carolina retains half the salary. No more concussion issues please.

Still having Despres would have made this much easier...

But yeah, a team on the rebuild is looking for picks and prospects, not older players. But if you trade for older players with the intention of turning them into picks and prospects at the deadline...


I don't know. Its not going to happen. I was just rattling of a scenario that I would find acceptable and be willing to pay with Skinner. I guess all this just goes to prove that I don't think we should trade for Skinner.
- Victoro311

If you're the CAR GM and wanting to rebuild, why would you trade away a 23 yr old locked up for 4 more years that has 2 30g seasons already? Doesn't really make sense from a CAR perspective.

Again, if Dupes comes back thats just more money wasted on an older player. Pens need to shed some salary to make good acquisitions.

So much wrong with this, its not even funny.

Shero tapped NASH for players only because he knew them. He did the same with the help of Disco in ANA. Now JR is going back to CAR because he just doesn't know any better. When EK broke that story, it was no secret it was JR going after Skinner.

Im starting to think Kap was picked solely due to the relationship JR had with Sami.

Pens are trending towards oblivion.
- sammy87

Familiarity with players could just as well be interpreted as a positive. The pens' (perceived bad) situation comes from a lack of 1st round draft picks and bad depth player valuation.
Not from Shero knowing Mark Eaton and Steve Sullivan or from JR knowing the Kapanens.

Kunitz had a major decline this year and he played most of the year with a generational talent. He is 35 too boot. You said he would bring a nice package back at the deadline. A second and a middling prospect isn't what I would call a good package. I don't for one minute think Kunitz would bring back a high return if he has another subpar season. He would be terrible in Carolina. People send ridiculous packages back for rentals at the deadline. However, if another decline happens in Carolina, which would almost be a given, his value drops more.

I brought up Letang because people continue to think he brings back a huge return. Fact is, because of his contract and injury history, you get 68 cents not he dollar in return. You have a similar situation here. The only difference, Skinner has shown more ability to remain healthy the last two years ... 148 games played to Letang's 106.
- Oneonta Penguin

Yes, so why is this so outlandish if you see Skinner as a diminished asset? It seems to me like you're saying that Skinner's going to bring back a lot, and then you turn around and say he's not going to bring back full value. So what do you think teams are going to actually give up for a guy with bad concussion history. What's the realistic number of picks and level of prospects.

If you're the CAR GM and wanting to rebuild, why would you trade away a 23 yr old locked up for 4 more years that has 2 30g seasons already? Doesn't really make sense from a CAR perspective.

Again, if Dupes comes back thats just more money wasted on an older player. Pens need to shed some salary to make good acquisitions.
- sammy87

It really doesn't. This is all contingent on Skinner being on the block which I thought was the point of the blog. If its just JR making calls then there's nothing to write home about. If Carolina doesn't actively want to move him then we definitely don't have the assets.

Man... Wilson is really pulling for Semin. I wonder if he prefers semin on the right side or the left side? Or the old-fashioned straight down the middle.

If you were a Carolina fan, would you be happy with that return for one of your best players, a young one too boot? Both of us know about his concussion history. However, I can't see the scenario you have put out there be intriguing for Ron Francis to bite on. What does Kunitz, a 35-year old forward on the decline bring them? I don't see him getting a huge package as you say at the deadline. His value now is a second round pick probably. You think him going to Carolina, where he will be on a line with second rate talent, would increase the value?

You might be able to sell Francis on Sutter and Carolina should be interested in Harrington because their defense is poor and they need an influx of prospects.

Francis has his eyes on a much higher return. If Rutherford called about Skinner, I wouldn't be shocked if Francis' first name coming back as part of a package is a young PMD who ironically was chosen with the pick Carolina sent us for Staal.

Very curious as to what you think the value of Kris Letang is on the open market. Be careful, because Skinner's injury history pales in comparison to Letang.
- Oneonta Penguin

No, I wouldn't be happy with anything

Yes, so why is this so outlandish if you see Skinner as a diminished asset? It seems to me like you're saying that Skinner's going to bring back a lot, and then you turn around and say he's not going to bring back full value. So what do you think teams are going to actually give up for a guy with bad concussion history. What's the realistic number of picks and level of prospects.
- Victoro311

Skinner has played 148 games over the last two years. Sure, he has a concussion history that we all know about. However, he has shown the ability to remain healthy over the last two years. If he played 106 games, different story. I don't see Skinner nearly as a diminished asset as many do. A concern? Sure. However 77 and 71 games played the last two years is pretty good considering.

Man... Wilson is really pulling for Semin. I wonder if he prefers semin on the right side or the left side? Or the old-fashioned straight down the middle.
- ChrisMS

Lets face it... there is no cheaper good options out there... and would you rather we take a sure thing mid 6 player, or risk a low cost top 6 player being sold very low?

Now, I want the risks, because our status quo of depth and "safer" choices isn't working.

When fans of other teams bring up letang a concussion issues we defend it by saying the Doan hit was unnecessary and anyone would have gotten a concussion there. When skinner is mentioned we go right to his concussion history. Give me Jeff skinner over semin all day. Semin makes more and might cost less to acquire but skinner is younger and hasn't peaked IMO. No brainer
- dbell646

We have battled a lot over the years, but I agree here. I'd take Skinner over Semin too. I put a high emphasis on work ethic. One has it, the other doesn't have one at all.

If you were a Carolina fan, would you be happy with that return for one of your best players, a young one too boot? Both of us know about his concussion history. However, I can't see the scenario you have put out there be intriguing for Ron Francis to bite on. What does Kunitz, a 35-year old forward on the decline bring them? I don't see him getting a huge package as you say at the deadline. His value now is a second round pick probably. You think him going to Carolina, where he will be on a line with second rate talent, would increase the value?

You might be able to sell Francis on Sutter and Carolina should be interested in Harrington because their defense is poor and they need an influx of prospects.

Francis has his eyes on a much higher return. If Rutherford called about Skinner, I wouldn't be shocked if Francis' first name coming back as part of a package is a young PMD who ironically was chosen with the pick Carolina sent us for Staal.

Very curious as to what you think the value of Kris Letang is on the open market. Be careful, because Skinner's injury history pales in comparison to Letang.
- Oneonta Penguin

The only difference between Kris Letang and Jeff Skinner on the injury front is that Letang suffered a stroke in 13-14, other than that they are very similar. I would even say Skinner's may be more of a red flag in that he has had his concussion problems at a younger age.

Skinner would be a nice addition to this team but I think he is slightly overpaid and would cost too much for us to obtain.

Lets face it... there is no cheaper good options out there... and would you rather we take a sure thing mid 6 player, or risk a low cost top 6 player being sold very low?

Now, I want the risks, because our status quo of depth and "safer" choices isn't working.
- Guile

woosh

try again

so you would like the risks of semin because going "safer" isn't working.... The problem i have is that semin can be a mess away from the rubber.

No, I wouldn't be happy with anything

- Guile

Someone really left that team a mess...

woosh

try again

so you would like the risks of semin because going "safer" isn't working.... The problem i have is that semin can be a mess away from the rubber.
- ChrisMS

You say try again, I say blindly obstinate to taking a small risk.

I don't want anything to do with Skinner. No way. It'll cost a ton to get him, he's one dimensional, and he has concussion issues. I'd rather take Semin than Skinner.

You say try again, I say blindly obstinate to taking a small risk.
- Guile

I guess....


I mean, there isn't anything as beautiful as when semin shoots straight through the 5-hole.

I guess....


I mean, there isn't anything as beautiful as when semin shoots straight through the 5-hole.
- ChrisMS

I am in no way denying he played like poop last year, and slumped the year prior... but with the same team in his first year, he was a point per game player. And that team wasn't good.

If we are okay with Kunitz and or Dupuis here, I don't get why everyone has been so against Semin. Hes been a better goal score than either has been when on a winning team. If he is a lazy or pouty player on a lesser team, GREAT. That means he will bust his ass again once here, and we steal him for half retained.

I am biased on this, because I am looking at the positives far outweighing the negatives. At worst, we get another mid 6 player, that is a wash for if we deal Kunitz cost wise. Possibly gain assets (just slightly) if Semin is a cheap as it seems.

https://www.hockeyscap.com/armchair-gm/team/4726

Welp, mainly did this to see if we could make it fit under the cap, and it does. Tikhnov, Downie, and Bennett are all fluid with Wilson and Rust coming in for inevitable injuries.

Basically what I'm getting at is that as long as Kunitz, Sutter, and Spaling go out, we can make room for a 6 mil contract and have plenty of cap to spare. Complete other question if we have the assets to acquire said 6 million contract, which is probably a no.

I am in no way denying he played like poop last year, and slumped the year prior... but with the same team in his first year, he was a point per game player. And that team wasn't good.

If we are okay with Kunitz and or Dupuis here, I don't get why everyone has been so against Semin. Hes been a better goal score than either has been when on a winning team. If he is a lazy or pouty player on a lesser team, GREAT. That means he will bust his ass again once here, and we steal him for half retained.

I am biased on this, because I am looking at the positives far outweighing the negatives. At worst, we get another mid 6 player, that is a wash for if we deal Kunitz cost wise. Possibly gain assets (just slightly) if Semin is a cheap as it seems.
- Guile

Just remember.... with that contract, if it doesnt work out, semin will be tough to get out of a pens jersey.

https://www.hockeyscap.com/armchair-gm/team/4726

Welp, mainly did this to see if we could make it fit under the cap, and it does. Tikhnov, Downie, and Bennett are all fluid with Wilson and Rust coming in for inevitable injuries.

Basically what I'm getting at is that as long as Kunitz, Sutter, and Spaling go out, we can make room for a 6 mil contract and have plenty of cap to spare. Complete other question if we have the assets to acquire said 6 million contract, which is probably a no.
- Victoro311

We actually have a lot of flexibility possible on this team... the young D should have most of our butts' puckered for the first third of the season, then we'll know what we have.