Honest question, what would the Canes be looking for to move him. Obviously, they would need to retain some salary. Just want to gauge.
- cap1681

I'm not sure they'd have to retain salary if they took back a bad contract like Scuderi.

I'm sure he will come back and say thats what he meant to type.
- nurk

are you still butt hurt about that 50% thing yesterday?

Bortuzzo is nothing more than a bottom pairing defeseman. Nothing against that, but that's what he is. Cole has shown signs of being a top 4 guy, and played well in the role at the end of last season when the Pens were crushed with injuries on the blue line. Not saying he is going to be a 1st pairing guy, but he could well become a solid 2nd pairing guy as soon as this year. His ceiling is higher than Bortuzzo.
- cap1681

So we lost the trade because of Cole's potential?

Cole had opportunities to play with Petro, to play more than a bottom pair.

He had the chance to be a solid 2nd pairing guy in St Louis and didn't do anything with it. Borts plus a pick is a good return for him, especially for the Blues with their needs and Come proving he wasn't up to the task here.

If Cole becomes everything you and everyone else in St Louis thought he would be at one point, then yes, Pitt win the deal.

But for some reason (maybe years of watching him, not months) I am not really worried about that.

So we lost the trade because of Cole's potential?

Cole had opportunities to play with Petro, to play more than a bottom pair.

He had the chance to be a solid 2nd pairing guy in St Louis and didn't do anything with it. Borts plus a pick is a good return for him, especially for the Blues with their needs and Come proving he wasn't up to the task here.

If Cole becomes everything you and everyone else in St Louis thought he would be at one point, then yes, Pitt win the deal.

But for some reason (maybe years of watching him, not months) I am not really worried about that.
- carcus

I just feel that trading a guy who will never be anything more than a 6th or 7th d-man for a guy who can play bottom pairing now and has potential to move up to the middle pairing is a win.

And the pick was a 7th round pick. Nothing groundbreaking there.

Honest question, what would the Canes be looking for to move him. Obviously, they would need to retain some salary. Just want to gauge.
- cap1681

I'm really not sure. Likely another overpaid player, but I don't think the Canes want to take back anything that works out to them paying any more than $5 million in salary after everything balances out.

Historically, less than 20% of 2nd round picks make it to the big time and have even a minor impact. Hence, 80% chance they are a bust. Not sure what part you don't get.

Even if you elaborate that to 50%, which is utterly absurd, the player doesn't even have an impact for at least 3-4 years anyway.
- mventres

meanwhile 98% of penguins fans are upset about only having 1 pick in the first 100 selections.

Yotes need to spend $18.2 million just to hit the floor....I think we found Scuds a new home. Boedker will be getting way over paid now.

Yotes need to spend $18.2 million just to hit the floor....I think we found Scuds a new home. Boedker will be getting way over paid now.
- sammy87

Scuderi wont go to Arizona.

Scuderi wont go to Arizona.
- SuperHenderson13

You don't know that.

Edit: nevermind. His no movement clause is that he picks 5 teams he will go to.

Trade is not happening.

Scuderi wont go to Arizona.
- SuperHenderson13

How do you know? He already has 2 cups, he knows he's not wanted anywhere with a respectable hockey market. If can fade away in the desert...at least for a year before they move to Vegas or Seattle.

Scuderi wont go to Arizona.
- SuperHenderson13

He might go to Carolina. Supposedly he wanted to stay on the EC right?

You don't know that.

Edit: nevermind. His no movement clause is that he picks 5 teams he will go to.

Trade is not happening.
- cap1681

I thought it was a list of no go teams.....dammit.

Eh send Kuni and Spaling.

You don't know that.

Edit: nevermind. His no movement clause is that he picks 5 teams he will go to.

Trade is not happening.
- cap1681

What is your source on that?

He might go to Carolina. Supposedly he wanted to stay on the EC right?
- jfkst1

Why would Carolina want him?

How do you know? He already has 2 cups, he knows he's not wanted anywhere with a respectable hockey market. If can fade away in the desert...at least for a year before they move to Vegas or Seattle.
- sammy87

His NTC features teams only in the Western Conference. I would imagine rebuilding teams out West would be a huge no no for him. I dont know it for a fact, but I cant imagine him going out there.

Why would Carolina want him?
- BINGO!

that doesnt matter in penguins fans trade scenarios

that doesnt matter in penguins fans trade scenarios
- nurk

Exactly

Why would Carolina want him?
- BINGO!

You said they would likely want an overpaid player to offset Semin. Well that is precisely what Scuderi is.

You said they would likely want an overpaid player to offset Semin. Well that is precisely what Scuderi is.
- jfkst1

Yeah but they also want a hockey player, not a turnip on skates.

Per TIOPS, Pens would be willing to include Perron in a deal for the right player. I wouldn't trade Perron in any deal unless the person coming back was named Ladd, Wheeler, or JVR.

Yeah but they also want a hockey player, not a turnip on skates.
- BINGO!

If the emphasis is on dumping salary as you said it was, they aren't going to be getting good deals. Didn't Francis have zero takers for Semin at the deadline with 50% salary retained?

What is your source on that?
- jfkst1

http://isportsweb.com/201...b-scuderi-trade-unlikely/

http://isportsweb.com/201...b-scuderi-trade-unlikely/
- cap1681

Appreciate it. If that is really the case Scuderi needs to be bought out immediately.

Let's take your idea to a plausible outcome:

If you put Pouliot on 3rd pairing you'll need a stabilizing presence (like Eaton was for Letang) or his development will suffer. This brings me back to a guy like Jackman/Oduya/Hejda/etc. OK, say we get Hejda (for argument sake).

If you trade Sutter for Ellis, he plays #3 and will need a stabilizing partner given his very offense-minded game. Demoulin is definitely not ready for that role. So, we're back to the same problem of a stabilizing presence at #4.

EXCEPT now you've created at least the following problems:
(1) with Ellis chewing up #2 minutes (including PP time) how is Pouliot to develop? i.e., how do you balance their respective roles and playing time without pissing at least one of them off??
(2) With Sutter gone, what chips do you have to improve the top 6 or #3C for that matter?
(3) What will you do with Cole/Lovejoy/Scuederi? Scuderi buyout doesn't make cap-sense, so that's out the window and he's not quite good enough to balance Pouliot at #6 - or do you risk that?
- mventres

I think I'm getting into a much bigger discussion then I wanted to in saying Pouliot could develop while on the third pair....

I disagree with the premise you need a stabilizing vet. I don't you mind getting the right one, he just has to be able to move the puck in this system. Guys like Martin and Ehrhoff are the types of stabilizing vets we would want.

You can put 2 PMDs behind a scoring line and they can overwhelm teams with possession even if they aren't defensively superior. Possible best example ever was the Corvo-Preissing 2nd pair in Ottawa which wasn't great defensively but always played with Spezza, Heatley, and Alfie and ended up being about +40 each and getting to the Stanley Cup.

To answer #2 Ellis is cost controlled and better then Cole, Lovejoy, and most of the guys you listed. He'd make a good long-term partner for Pouliot.

For #1 and #3, the biggest issue with Pouliot playing protected minutes is Dumo definitely does. If Pouliot is overwhelmed on the 2nd pair, frankly we are screwed. Lineup would ideally be

Maatta - Letang
Pouliot - Ellis
Dumoulin - Cole
Lovejoy

I have no interest in Scuderi on the roster. He's a bottom pairing LD, same as Dumo. Since Dumo is our #6, our #7 should be able to play RD.

If the emphasis is on dumping salary as you said it was, they aren't going to be getting good deals. Didn't Francis have zero takers for Semin at the deadline with 50% salary retained?
- jfkst1

Not that I saw.

I saw a report that the Canes were willing to retain up to 50%, and then people on here went in a game of telephone that spiraled it into the "no takers" thing, but never an actual report that nobody was biting.