Those other players aren't an option because they will be cashing in on a weak free agency. Your saying the pens need another scuderi. If you'd rather want Jackman than Ellis then just stop responding now.
- drummer829

Tis true

A decline in production each year. He is an underachiever. You can't debate that.
- Oneonta Penguin

44 points in 44 games is not a decline from 54 in 75...

44 points in 44 games is not a decline from 54 in 75...
- BINGO!

No, but the 42 in 65 then the 19 in 57 is a big decline in the last 2 years. He has been trending downwards, and as he is getting older, the chances he trends back upwards are slim.

Those other players aren't an option because they will be cashing in on a weak free agency. Your saying the pens need another scuderi. If you'd rather want Jackman than Ellis then just stop responding now.
- drummer829

I would, but I'd prefer others over Ellis, then using Sutter to pick up something more useful...

Look at the games/scouting reports on Ellis, he's a top 4 OFFENSIVE defenseman with no size. Unless you're planning to deal Pouliot where does he fit in?
- mventres

2nd pairing RD, with Cole and Pouliot competing for the LD spot, loser plays with Dumoulin on the 3rd pair, Lovejoy as #7. Works for me.

I would, but I'd prefer others over Ellis, then using Sutter to pick up something more useful...
- mventres

IF the top 6 can't be fixed with a sutter trade, then I suggested using sutter to grab a top 4 Dman like Ellis (if one is available). Use that extra cap space to poach a winger from free agency. Hell, maybe you can offer sutter + and try to grab Ellis and Wilson from Nashville. Ellis at 2.5 mil for the next 4 years is as cap friendly as you can get.

2nd pairing RD, with Cole and Pouliot competing for the LD spot, loser plays with Dumoulin on the 3rd pair, Lovejoy as #7. Works for me.
- Tojo.

Pouliott + Ellis on the same pairing would be ludicrous. Waaay too little experience and emphasis on defense...it would be simply HORRIBLE!

That is horrible...and compounded by bringing in a guy like Ellis who plays a similar style will play mind games with him. How is 12min/game going to allow him to develop? HORRIBLE IDEA. If Pouliot is not going to play top 4 then just put him in the minors where he'll get 20+min/game - which is also a bad idea as he's grown out of that as well.

Jackman fits what the PENS NEED at #4 way more than Ellis does. Other better options exist too (e.g., Beauchemin, Oduya - or Martin IF at a discount). That pairs a younger, more offensive minded guy with somebody who is very capable on D and can cover up a large amount of mistakes he will make while developing. Cole/Lovejoy is not going to give a guy like Pouliot the confidence to stretch himself to become a solid offensive D man.
- mventres

You know, Letang played 2 years on the 3rd pairing with Mark Eaton and that worked out pretty well. The thing I'd be worried about is if Pouliot was on the 3rd pair, it would likely be with Dumoulin, so they're basically forced to have him sink or swim on the 2nd pair unless they trade one.

IF the top 6 can't be fixed with a sutter trade, then I suggested using sutter to grab a top 4 Dman like Ellis (if one is available). Use that extra cap space to poach a winger from free agency. Hell, maybe you can offer sutter + and try to grab Ellis and Wilson from Nashville. Ellis at 2.5 mil for the next 4 years is as cap friendly as you can get.
- drummer829

Even if top 6 can't be fixed and we can only get, say, ARZ #30 pick...still way better than bringing in Ellis...he's just a horrible option FOR THE PENS - other teams he would make more sense, but not PIT...not even close.

You know, Letang played 2 years on the 3rd pairing with Mark Eaton and that worked out pretty well. The thing I'd be worried about is if Pouliot was on the 3rd pair, it would likely be with Dumoulin, so they're basically forced to have him sink or swim on the 2nd pair unless they trade one.
- Tojo.

Letang has never averaged less than 18min/game, which happened in his 1st year. That's 2nd pairing time...

A decline in production each year. He is an underachiever. You can't debate that.
- Oneonta Penguin

Wow, you just totally ignore games played, don't you.

Even if top 6 can't be fixed and we can only get, say, ARZ #30 pick...still way better than bringing in Ellis...he's just a horrible option FOR THE PENS - other teams he would make more sense, but not PIT...not even close.
- mventres

While I would rather have Ellis than #30, I'm not opposed to taking that pick, or even the Coyotes 2nd rounder for Sutter either. I'd rather do that than trade Sutter for a one year rental winger.

Even if top 6 can't be fixed and we can only get, say, ARZ #30 pick...still way better than bringing in Ellis...he's just a horrible option FOR THE PENS - other teams he would make more sense, but not PIT...not even close.
- mventres

How is a young, good skating, puck moving defenseman ever a horrible option?? I don't know how trading for Ellis came up, but he is a good player, and any team would take him in a heartbeat.

Letang has never averaged less than 18min/game, which happened in his 1st year. That's 2nd pairing time...
- mventres

Yet he played 3rd pairing. Most of the time those guys play more than 12 minutes, unless you're Chicago. Pouliot will get PP time as well.

I'd like him to grab the 2nd unit spot, I did say he should battle Cole for it, but he might need to be protected, and that's fine. Like I said, worked out well for Letang.

While I would rather have Ellis than #30, I'm not opposed to taking that pick, or even the Coyotes 2nd rounder for Sutter either. I'd rather do that than trade Sutter for a one year rental winger.
- jfkst1

I do think Boedker for Sutter + 3rd in 2016 could work tbh...if we add Bennett we could probably drop the 3rd and get back a 3rd or late 2nd (#60).

Yet he played 3rd pairing. Most of the time those guys play more than 12 minutes, unless you're Chicago. Pouliot will get PP time as well.

I'd like him to grab the 2nd unit spot, I did say he should battle Cole for it, but he might need to be protected, and that's fine. Like I said, worked out well for Letang.
- Tojo.

18mins/game isn't made up on PP time...esp as he wasn't on the top unit. That pairing was maybe listed as 3rd, but played as 2nd unit (Eaton was playing around 19-20mins/game at the time).

I do think Boedker for Sutter + 3rd in 2016 could work tbh...if we add Bennett we could probably drop the 3rd and get back a 3rd or late 2nd (#60).
- mventres

I want nothing to do with Boedker. No idea why anyone wants him. His production isn't good, he isn't going to develop anymore, and he's not good defensively. He looks like a bust to me. I'd rather have their 2nd rounder than Boedker.

Letang has never averaged less than 18min/game, which happened in his 1st year. That's 2nd pairing time...
- mventres

He played 3rd pairing minutes in 07/08, and moved up to 2nd pairing minutes in 08/09.

His TOI was skewed because of PP time. Look at the ES time on ice. In 07/08 he was 6th among defensemen for ES TOI. In 08/09, he was 4th. From 09/10 on, he is either 1st or 2nd.

18mins/game isn't made up on PP time...esp as he wasn't on the top unit. That pairing was maybe listed as 3rd, but played as 2nd unit (Eaton was playing around 19-20mins/game at the time).
- mventres

Then maybe Pouliot gets 18 on the 3rd pairing as well so there won't be a problem. The point is they may need to protect him as they did Letang. Hopefully not, but he was pretty sloppy towards the end of last year.

I want nothing to do with Boedker. No idea why anyone wants him. His production isn't good, he isn't going to develop anymore, and he's not good defensively. He looks like a bust to me. I'd rather have their 2nd rounder than Boedker.
- jfkst1

Hes 25 and he plays in Dave Tippetts system... which is not uber explosive. I'd take him for Sutter. Not sure what I would add though

I want nothing to do with Boedker. No idea why anyone wants him. His production isn't good, he isn't going to develop anymore, and he's not good defensively. He looks like a bust to me. I'd rather have their 2nd rounder than Boedker.
- jfkst1

2nd rounder has about 15% chance to make it to the NHL within 5 years and go on to play at least 200 games...which (a) doesn't help us now, (b) is not likely to help us in the future either.

Boedker is at least an NHL player with potential. He's never really played with a true #1C and could be worth the risk...

44 points in 44 games is not a decline from 54 in 75...
- BINGO!

19 points in 55 games is. Stop making the excuses for the bum. He is stealing money by not showing any desire or work ethic.

Wow, you just totally ignore games played, don't you.
- Tojo.

19 points in 55 games. That is a decline. He isn't the player he was in Washington. Sad thing is, people can't see that. Bad investment for whoever wants to take a gamble on him.

Quick check, Pouliot got 17 and a half minutes a game as a 3rd pairing guy. Being a 3rd pairing defenseman isn't the same as being a 4th line forward, you still get plenty of ice time, you just get protected from having lots of shifts against top 6 talent.

2nd rounder has about 15% chance to make it to the NHL within 5 years and go on to play at least 200 games...which (a) doesn't help us now, (b) is not likely to help us in the future either.

Boedker is at least an NHL player with potential. He's never really played with a true #1C and could be worth the risk...
- mventres

I'm as concerned with sustainability as winning right now. I don't believe Malkin and Crosby are going to turn into pumpkins at age 30 like everyone else seems to. Boedker's underlying numbers are mediocre. His production is all based on usage- just like Vermette's. He has played in the league for 7 years and 368 games. The chances of him improving are remote at best. He won't be any better with improved line mates.