That's the point.
- mohel

I was being sarcastical...

Prefer to see no one banned at all. Prefer to see people allowed their opinion - if stated as opinion - without cheap shots. Obviously, mathematically impossible.

I'm glad I can get my daily dose of comedy here, Bowman did a great job getting something for Leddy, WAY OVERRATED!
- BetweenTheDots

Gonna disagree, respectfully.

Not Bobby Orr, probably also not the sharpest tool in the shed, but a guy who has improved year after year, and gifted with tons of natural ability. More upside to reach, too.

See my post immediately above. My OPINION (shared by many) they should have gotten more for Leddy. What they got was a prospect goalie who reuses to play in the AHL, a career AHL defenseman and a decent D prospect who probably will not be the equal of Leddy.
- John Jaeckel

Would it be fair to say there might have been factors involved that were the reason Bowman waited? Didn't Oduya have surgery on his foot last offseason and there were some concerns that he wouldn't be ready for the start of the season?

Given how bad Oduya played in the first half of the season maybe he should have waited longer. lol

Actually I think they have.

Here's the point, I really don't blame Stanley. I don't put him on the pedestal some do. I think he's limited by the system within the organization. Again, opinion, but supported by much i've heard and seen.

I have also heard that he and Q have become allies in keeping the front office more at bay, which is great for the team and fans.
- John Jaeckel

This is really good to see. I can't imagine anyone being able to dispute a hockey opinion shared by those 2 names.

I think it is a pretty big failure to not have unloaded any salary by now. One significant piece should have moved.
- fattybeef

Would it be fair to say there might have been factors involved that were the reason Bowman waited? Didn't Oduya have surgery on his foot last offseason and there were some concerns that he wouldn't be ready for the start of the season?

Given how bad Oduya played in the first half of the season maybe he should have waited longer. lol
- TTtime

This is fair. I don't know.

- darkman

No, he has a valid opinion. You might not agree, but . . .

Saw the piece. Lewis is one blogger I read regularly here. Knows his stats. That was a solid piece and another reason I like Stan's approach of adding free agents and quantities of prospects. Stan still made 7 picks in this draft... add the free agent singnings it is a WIN.

When I say DL is a great drafter and evaluator it's because when the opportunity is there the last several years he has generally chosen the right player with picks and gotten the better of trades. He has also made some bad choices and contract bets. When the crucial talent choices are there he has probably chosen better than the mean.
- tredbrta

I agree DL is good. I think the Hawks have a good record in that area in the lazt five years or so. I was surprised how even it was among teams.

No, he has a valid opinion. You might not agree, but . . .
- John Jaeckel

Either way, it's still a great GIF!

This is fair. I don't know.
- John Jaeckel

It is fair to assume there may have been mitigating factors causing a delay in the decision. It is also completely fair and reasonable to assume that waiting until the last minute caused the return on Leddy and Boychuck to be less than what it was at the draft or earlier when a deadline was not at hand.

It is also the consensus of any "expert" I have seen discuss it. Dreger reported Boychuck was definitely less and I believe McKenzie was also the one who said Stan was targeting a higher rated d prospect than Pokka. An NYI poster said Snow confirmed that somewhere as well.

I was being sarcastical...

Prefer to see no one banned at all. Prefer to see people allowed their opinion - if stated as opinion - without cheap shots. Obviously, mathematically impossible.
- tredbrta

I would prefer:

We start less sarcastic posts with "Others on this board . . ."

The preceding is a topic that there are a lot of divergent, yet valid, points of view on. It deteriorates when people start making sport of one poster (or POV) or another.

It is possible to disagree without being an a--hole. Something, yes, I have had to work on myself (so please resist the old tactic of blaming me for what you post, OK? LOL)

I've not heard/read one "dumb" comment. Yes, some go (and in my opinion "err") hard to the belief that Bowman is above criticism. Some are, IMO, overly critical of him.

But . . . maybe this is our Rodney King moment. Maybe we should just be glad we can discuss the Hawks without trolls form other teams.

Off the soapbox now.

Either way, it's still a great GIF!
- HawkintheD

Yes.

1) Do you really think there were no earlier offers for Leddy?
2) That Bowman's bargaining position did not deteriorate as the season drew closer?

Both are sort of common sense questions. The second is sort of just, I don't know, the obvious.

I am not here to condemn Bowman, nor to defend everything he's done because "no one can prove" he's at fault for anything.
- John Jaeckel

And both are purely speculative because we don't know.

Common sense would also suggest Bowman and his team would make the best deal for the Hawks. There is allot of speculation on this site that he doesn't.

It is fair to assume there may have been mitigating factors causing a delay in the decision. It is also completely fair and reasonable to assume that waiting until the last minute caused the return on Leddy and Boychuck to be less than what it was at the draft or earlier when a deadline was not at hand.

It is also the consensus of any "expert" I have seen discuss it. Dreger reported Boychuck was definitely less and I believe McKenzie was also the one who said Stan was targeting a higher rated d prospect than Pokka. An NYI poster said Snow confirmed that somewhere as well.
- tredbrta

All valid as rumors. Certainly plausible. Just like the denials are plausible.

I will stand by my point of view that in these cap dump situations, the longer you wait to the compliance deadline, the more your position is weakened in trade.

This opinion was floated and it seems to have become fact.
- paulr

It's common sense there was less of a market after the lower cap was announced for Leddy. You still believe there would have been only 1 buyer for Leddy who at his age can skate like Paul Coffey and was given a $38 million contract a short time later???
In reality there was only 1 real buyer at that late time that could afford him and not have to send money back.

C'mon Paul you never liked Leddy and have been upside down on his talent level forever...Let it go becasue if Polka turns out to be a vg player it is more of getting lucky than making a good trade. I do know for a fact Polka was not considered a top prospect by the Islanders.

What I heard and believe was there was indecisiveness on trading Leddy...He could have been traded at the deadline too, it didn't have to wait until the after cap was announced...And why not so if Bowman knew he wasn't going to play in later rounds?? Certainly he could have picked a serviceable #6/#7 for same cap space.
Once the lower cap was announced Leddy's pool of buyers shrank and the Hawks were in deep water.

I won't criticize Bowman for holding onto Sharp and Bickell...But at some point holding everyone to the last possible moment doesn't work.

Bowman has been a victim of success somewhat becasue holding onto Sharp and Bickell did help win a Cup this time...But he has held onto many players too long.

Like I said more than once if you win the last game played holding onto players is a consequence that has to be lived with but...In cases like Leddy, Clendenning, Morin, Stanton, Olsen, Parenteau and I could go on players were held until it was obvious they were not going to play in Chicago...Thus far less trade value.

Most people are critical of the Bruins moves over the weekend....I don't love them and Chiarelli made quite a few other blunders while there.

But one thing the Bruins did is realize they weren't a Cup team as constituted and they traded two very good young players are year early. Because next year at this time they would have lost both Lucic and Hamilton and would have received far less in return. ...By that time the league would know the Bruins were not going to spend 12 mill or so to keep them.

Everyone is watching the same movie in the NHL, and the right timing is a tough thing to figure out....But whomever figures out the end of the movie first has a distinct advantage.

And both are purely speculative because we don't know.

Common sense would also suggest Bowman and his team would make the best deal for the Hawks. There is allot of speculation on this site that he doesn't.
- paulr

Is it not possible that "in the best interest of the team," gathering and aligning the collective "opinions" of John McDonough, Al MacIsaac, Scotty Bowman, Stan Bowman, Ryan Stewart, Joel Quenneville, etc might have slowed down the decisions-making process?

Paul, just my opinion, but one I have heard echoed by a lot of folks, including someone you yourself told me about, that sometimes Stan doesn't pull the trigger because he has to clear things with others.

I agree DL is good. I think the Hawks have a good record in that area in the lazt five years or so. I was surprised how even it was among teams.
- mohel

The Hawks do - probably as good as DL. Certainly better decisions on long term deals (so far). I wish Jason had included the Hawks numbers. Probably would not have looked as good - only due to the NHL roster depth during that period. Maybe not though - considering trades of Hayes et al...

It also confounds me how so many still believe their teams are only going to rebuild mainly thru the draft/player development - like many Leaf posters this week. A team would need to collect many more picks/prospects than possible to do it.

IF Saad decides to sign a Ducks offer sheet, freak'em, bye.
- wiz1901

If anything Tarasenko gets the huge offer sheet, common Saad is a good player but common already.

New blog coming in 10:

Heard from a good source, you may choose to believe it or not, haha.

Saad contract
Hawks trade possibilities Sharp, Bickell and Versteeg (as well as possible return)

If anything Tarasenko gets the huge offer sheet, common Saad is a good player but common already.
- BetweenTheDots

It's also about who the writer of the offer sheet feels they can actually acquire.
That's why If I'm Bowman I sign Kruger ASAP...Because they could get squeezed with him and then there would be other consequences and Kruger's compensation will not be as much of a burden for the acquiring club.

I would prefer:

We start less sarcastic posts with "Others on this board . . ."

The preceding is a topic that there are a lot of divergent, yet valid, points of view on. It deteriorates when people start making sport of one poster (or POV) or another.

It is possible to disagree without being an a--hole. Something, yes, I have had to work on myself (so please resist the old tactic of blaming me for what you post, OK? LOL)

I've not heard/read one "dumb" comment. Yes, some go (and in my opinion "err") hard to the belief that Bowman is above criticism. Some are, IMO, overly critical of him.

But . . . maybe this is our Rodney King moment. Maybe we should just be glad we can discuss the Hawks without trolls form other teams.

Off the soapbox now.
- John Jaeckel

I don't think it's this as much as give the organization time to do their job properly. Somebody said it earlier, that had he pulled the trigger early and received substantially less than what that poster was expecting, they'd be moaning that he pulled the trigger too early.

I think what a few of us are saying is that prior history shows that they generally know what they're doing. Sit back, enjoy your summer, and expect the team to be competitive once again, and if they're not, we still have 3 Stanley Cup Championship videos that we can watch in those dark, dark, days.

Sit back, enjoy your summer, and expect the team to be competitive once again, and if they're not, we still have 3 Stanley Cup Championship videos that we can watch in those dark, dark, days.

- darkman

LOL! Love it. And A-(franking)-men!

New blog coming in 10:

Heard from a good source, you may choose to believe it or not, haha.

Saad contract
Hawks trade possibilities Sharp, Bickell and Versteeg (as well as possible return)
- John Jaeckel

Awesome!! New Intel to discuss will go,along way around here! Thanks again for a great, informative blog and a fun place to hang out. I get more out of this place...

It's common sense there was less of a market after the lower cap was announced for Leddy. You still believe there would have been only 1 buyer for Leddy who at his age can skate like Paul Coffey and was given a $38 million contract a short time later???
In reality there was only 1 real buyer at that late time that could afford him and not have to send money back.

C'mon Paul you never liked Leddy and have been upside down on his talent level forever...Let it go becasue if Polka turns out to be a vg player it is more of getting lucky than making a good trade. I do know for a fact Polka was not considered a top prospect by the Islanders.

What I heard and believe was there was indecisiveness on trading Leddy...He could have been traded at the deadline too, it didn't have to wait until the after cap was announced...And why not so if Bowman knew he wasn't going to play in later rounds?? Certainly he could have picked a serviceable #6/#7 for same cap space.
Once the lower cap was announced Leddy's pool of buyers shrank and the Hawks were in deep water.

I won't criticize Bowman for holding onto Sharp and Bickell...But at some point holding everyone to the last possible moment doesn't work.

Bowman has been a victim of success somewhat becasue holding onto Sharp and Bickell did help win a Cup this time...But he has held onto many players too long.

Like I said more than once if you win the last game played holding onto players is a consequence that has to be lived with but...In cases like Leddy, Clendenning, Morin, Stanton, Olsen, Parenteau and I could go on players were held until it was obvious they were not going to play in Chicago...Thus far less trade value.

Most people are critical of the Bruins moves over the weekend....I don't love them and Chiarelli made quite a few other blunders while there.

But one thing the Bruins did is realize they weren't a Cup team as constituted and they traded two very good young players are year early. Because next year at this time they would have lost both Lucic and Hamilton and would have received far less in return. ...By that time the league would know the Bruins were not going to spend 12 mill or so to keep them.

Everyone is watching the same movie in the NHL, and the right timing is a tough thing to figure out....But whomever figures out the end of the movie first has a distinct advantage.
- Al

You're very incorrect, I don't nor have I ever disliked Leddy. I strongly disputed he is good defensively, he's not! I dispute he's a top pairing defeneman on a championship calibre team, he's not proven it. I also stated keeping Oduya over Leddy was the best thing for the Hawks short term, it was. But long term the Hawks moved the more valuable commodity. If Leddy was kept over Oduya I can't see the Hawks winning the cup because he doesn't do what the Hawks need from their defencemen. He's like Green, Letang, Gardiner, Karlsson etc. all good skating defencemen who I don't want anywhere near the Hawks because of the way they play.

Do you remember why the Leddy trade was made so late? To determine Oduya's physical status after his surgery. And like Dougie Hamilton not being offered to all 29 teams do you think Bowman was going to offer him to Weatern based teams?

Wiz,

Any thoughts on the flip side? Team that took the most fliers/had the least productive draft?
- stljam

Let me start out is all this is clearly tied to development, and it drives me crazy when I see sports grades on drafts in any sport where the teams with multiple first rounders and early picks get automatic higher grades.

So you won't see me telling you the least productive drafts are one of the teams with fewer picks.

I thought Arizona could have done better with all of their top 32 picks. After theri #2 overall Buffalo didn't impress. Calgary gambled but I liked that. Dale Tallon didn't do that well in the way I viewed his selections. Kings were able to steal a Russian at 74, but the rest are guys that I viewed multi-warted. I thought San Jose took some risks but they may pay off. St. Louis took a risk with Dunn who I love, but not sure if he can transition to the NHL easily, and Musil isreally not special except his daddy and now brother played in the NHL. I love Effingham Il. Wisconsin goaltender Luke Opilka. Gawdin is a great pick if you want someoen who is decent at every freaking phase of the game, but hasn't shown the ability to be more. Maybe when he gets girth and muscle?
It's not like I didn't like what Toronto did, but question and was surprised by it.
You draft a one way slight-built forward in William Nylander, you take the small framed Mitch Marner who I love, but then you undersized defender and THIRD midget win in the terrific Bracco?
I like these forwards but wonder is there room on the RED LEAFS for three?

Ok...now I have to pick one as THE worst long term upside, the one team that gets the very least out of their choices?

I say Florida Panthers and here is why:
I love Crouse in terms of size and potential but what if he in fact only reaches a high-water mark as a third line guy (if he cannot creat/score in the speedier NHL)?

Goalie Samuel Montembault is a tad over six foot and thought he was a guy you get in the late 3rd -5th rounds. Thomas Schemitsch lacks lateral quickness and maybe thats why teasm stayed away. Malgin is REALLY smalled but skilled and the other forwards are under six footers who Dale hopes grow in many ways.
Ryan Bednard may be the best goaler they draft this weekend.