And both are purely speculative because we don't know.

Common sense would also suggest Bowman and his team would make the best deal for the Hawks. There is allot of speculation on this site that he doesn't.
- paulr[/[/b

Even with some of the opinions stated as fact I really don't think many believe Stan doesn't make the best deal for the Hawks he can AT THAT TIME. The question is was the best deal available earlier better than the deal at that time. It is probably impossible to know but logical to believe that returns diminish the closer you get to a cap penalty deadline. There were also reports that this was the case - and yes of course it is hearsay. Maybe Stan or someone will write a book about these years some day.

A lot of talk that Sweeney could have gotten more for Hamilton from other teams but they weren't even called.... Seeing the return it is hard to doubt that. At least we know Stan is thorough.

Is it not possible that "in the best interest of the team," gathering and aligning the collective "opinions" of John McDonough, Al MacIsaac, Scotty Bowman, Stan Bowman, Ryan Stewart, Joel Quenneville, etc might have slowed down the decisions-making process?

Paul, just my opinion, but one I have heard echoed by a lot of folks, including someone you yourself told me about, that sometimes Stan doesn't pull the trigger because he has to clear things with others.
- John Jaeckel

Stan's autonomy is questionable as are many GMs. The Leddy trade being made so late was in large part to determine the status of Oduya, didn't you report that?

Pokka hasn't played a game in the NHL yet. Lets at least wait for that before we state "Stan got a bad return for Leddy because he waited to long"....and then attribute that to some sort of false narrative that "trading isn't one of his strong points", as if that Leddy trade means more than bringing on Richards, Vermette, and Desjardins and then going on to win a championship. A few days into the offseason and everyone already wants to make their case for being smarter than the Hawks GM. Like "meh, he's eeked his way to Cups, but i know there were better management decisions that should have already been made"....not directly quoting this, but its kinda the vibe you get from some posters. You guys are wrong. Let them be patient and play out their plan. Its worked time and time again. Till then kick back and enjoy the success.

Now if Saad or Seabrook wind up somewhere else.....THEN you can start the female doging.....

But why can't it be said that he tried, didn't get anything to work, not a great day, because logic suggests time is not his side?

I know, we can say there's no proof he didn't try. OK, and I have a bridge I want to sell you.

What would be WORSE is if people were saying he didn't try. I give him credit for trying. Just like I do Vermette and even TRYING on Timonen. The judgment was just not so great.
- John Jaeckel

JJ: My overall point is in reference to those people who think Bowman has had little to do with any of the (3) Cups this team has won. My argument isn't that he didn't try - my point is I'm fairly confident he's simply not sitting on deals that will substantially get worse as the offseason goes on.

Stan's autonomy is questionable as are many GMs. The Leddy trade being made so late was in large part to determine the status of Oduya, didn't you report that?
- paulr

I may have, but that doesn't mean they couldn't/shouldn't have moved earlier, but you're right, I don't know.

JJ: My overall point is in reference to those people who think Bowman has had little to do with any of the (3) Cups this team has won. My argument isn't that he didn't try - my point is I'm fairly confident he's simply not sitting on deals that will substantially get worse as the offseason goes on.
- CaptainBlackhawk

There we agree, I DO think he's trying HARD to get deals done, question is, is he shooting himself in the foot by overplaying the hand. Dunno.

NEW BLOG UP

I don't know if I put him top 3. But generally i agree. I also think he's had some luxury of learning on the job, not unlike Kenny Williams did—given a long rope. And he has. Like KW did.
- John Jaeckel

Comparing SB to KW? Now that's a scary thought...

If true that means the Hawks are soon do for a decade of futility.

Pokka hasn't played a game in the NHL yet. Lets at least wait for that before we state "Stan got a bad return for Leddy because he waited to long"....and then attribute that to some sort of false narrative that "trading isn't one of his strong points", as if that Leddy trade means more than bringing on Richards, Vermette, and Desjardins and then going on to win a championship. A few days into the offseason and everyone already wants to make their case for being smarter than the Hawks GM. Like "meh, he's eeked his way to Cups, but i know there were better management decisions that should have already been made"....not directly quoting this, but its kinda the vibe you get from some posters. You guys are wrong. Let them be patient and play out their plan. Its worked time and time again. Till then kick back and enjoy the success.

Now if Saad or Seabrook wind up somewhere else.....THEN you can start the female doging.....
- SimpleJack

Well, we know Pokka's skating is not great, so right there, taking everything else off the table, he's got a long way to go to equal Leddy. really different types of defensemen, but I am willing to bet 30 NHL GMs take Leddy over Pokka and don't think very long about it. All that said, I'm not "hanging" Bowman on it. Just saying, the return for Leddy might not equal what Leddy is or will become (for whatever reason).

I may have, but that doesn't mean they couldn't/shouldn't have moved earlier, but you're right, I don't know.
- John Jaeckel

There's an old Soviet quote "the end justifies the means". Moving Leddy instead of Oduya was instrumental in another cup win. Personally I'll gladly take the loss of assets for a cup win any day.

You're very incorrect, I don't nor have I ever disliked Leddy. I strongly disputed he is good defensively, he's not! I dispute he's a top pairing defeneman on a championship calibre team, he's not proven it. I also stated keeping Oduya over Leddy was the best thing for the Hawks short term, it was. But long term the Hawks moved the more valuable commodity. If Leddy was kept over Oduya I can't see the Hawks winning the cup because he doesn't do what the Hawks need from their defencemen. He's like Green, Letang, Gardiner, Karlsson etc. all good skating defencemen who I don't want anywhere near the Hawks because of the way they play.

Do you remember why the Leddy trade was made so late? To determine Oduya's physical status after his surgery. And like Dougie Hamilton not being offered to all 29 teams do you think Bowman was going to offer him to Weatern based teams?
- paulr

Oduya's status on a broken foot wasn't a plausible reason to wait..Leddy could have been dealt before the deadline.Oduya was going to be fine and didn't miss a game...
.
Leddy is a top 3 dman on many teams now and you don't know what the future holds for the Islanders. You were incorrect on his total ability as a hockey player and evidently that is so by Leddy's new deal.

You are missing the point consistently...A GM can't wait to the last minute always and not have it affect trade value. Hamilton and Lucic were traded a year early so the Bruins wouldn't get squeezed next summer...

The Hawks are a much better team and had to wait on Sharp and Bickell. They did not have to wait on every player I mentioned and certainly not on Leddy becasue he wasn't going to break into the top or 5 while Q was coach. Leddy was different and they puked him at final hour and if they get anything of value out of that trade it is by luck more than anything else.

Comparing SB to KW? Now that's a scary thought...

If true that means the Hawks are soon do for a decade of futility.
- ArlingtonRob

Well, he won a WS in 2005 with a team he pretty much built. Not a team he inherited. What is the baseball equivalent of Kane, Toews, Hossa, Seabrook, Keith?

There's an old Soviet quote "the end justifies the means". Moving Leddy instead of Oduya was instrumental in another cup win. Personally I'll gladly take the loss of assets for a cup win any day.
- paulr

An interesting POV that i can't argue with necessarily. Almost sounds like the argument that keeping Oduya might be as or more important than keeping Crawford.

Anyone else see the interview on TV at the end of the draft, with Ducks' GM Bob Murray? They were asking him about the goalie situation at the beginning, which he answered. And about Hagelin, too, and his interest in being a "faster team."

Then he was asked whether Anaheim done? His response (and don't hold me to it verbatim) was something like "We'll see around July 3 or 4 if there's more to come."

The coy smile on his face really hit me, though... Honestly, I thought, "Oh, ****, he's gonna go after Saad." My read is that Murray wants to do something bigger to offset what the Kings have done. He's got his 2016 picks and cap room. If I'm him, I'd go after Saad with a 7x7 offer sheet if he's available, no sweat.
- Fergie

What cap room? Hagelin and Silfverberg both have to get paid, that'll cost you somewhere around 6-7 total. You'll add 7 million for Saad. That leaves about 8 million in total space for 3-4 forwards and 1-2 defensemen, who will all have to be free agent signings because there are no players in the Anaheim system ready to make the jump. On top of that, you're giving away your entire 2016 draft just to acquire him.

I can't see this happening.

An interesting POV that i can't argue with necessarily. Almost sounds like the argument that keeping Oduya might be as or more important than keeping Crawford.
- John Jaeckel

I agreed on keeping Oduya over Leddy too...But there was no real reason to wait so long and have to puke Leddy....It was a mistake and there is a long list of young players held onto so long the entire league knows they weren't Chicago bound.

I talk to pro scouts and they watch a 100 or more games each year and a priority is to separate future quality NHL players from those who aren't...Each organization does the same internally and best to be able to do so sooner than later.

But he didn't play like he had a big body and that it's why they traded him.
- BetweenTheDots

does bickel really play like he has a big body. And Hayes barely played the year he got traded. Hard to show or get anything going with 5 to 6mins of ice time. Anyways, in the end, it was more of a believe by management that he was not a good fit for Q's system. Cie La Vi

Oduya's status on a broken foot wasn't a plausible reason to wait..Leddy could have been dealt before the deadline.Oduya was going to be fine and didn't miss a game...
.
Leddy is a top 3 dman on many teams now and you don't know what the future holds for the Islanders. You were incorrect on his total ability as a hockey player and evidently that is so by Leddy's new deal.

You are missing the point consistently...A GM can't wait to the last minute always and not have it affect trade value. Hamilton and Lucic were traded a year early so the Bruins wouldn't get squeezed next summer...

The Hawks are a much better team and had to wait on Sharp and Bickell. They did not have to wait on every player I mentioned and certainly not on Leddy becasue he wasn't going to break into the top or 5 while Q was coach. Leddy was different and they puked him at final hour and if they get anything of value out of that trade it is by luck more than anything else.
- Al

putting aside Leddy for a moment. All Bowman has to get for Sharp and Bickell is cap space, anything else is icing. There are two facts about this off season.
Fact 1. Bowman had to get cap compliant before the beginning of the 2015/16 season.

Fact 2. The 2015/16 season is about three months away.

Gonna disagree, respectfully.

Not Bobby Orr, probably also not the sharpest tool in the shed, but a guy who has improved year after year, and gifted with tons of natural ability. More upside to reach, too.
- John Jaeckel

What you say may be true he might of had better offers, I don't know and yes gifted with tons of natural ability has been getting better every year, but watching that playoff series between Caps and Islanders very very timid especially going to boards my view won't change of him until he's willing to do the dirty work for his team to succeed and he may never do that. Time will tell

Oduya's status on a broken foot wasn't a plausible reason to wait..Leddy could have been dealt before the deadline.Oduya was going to be fine and didn't miss a game...
.
Leddy is a top 3 dman on many teams now and you don't know what the future holds for the Islanders. You were incorrect on his total ability as a hockey player and evidently that is so by Leddy's new deal.

You are missing the point consistently...A GM can't wait to the last minute always and not have it affect trade value. Hamilton and Lucic were traded a year early so the Bruins wouldn't get squeezed next summer...

The Hawks are a much better team and had to wait on Sharp and Bickell. They did not have to wait on every player I mentioned and certainly not on Leddy becasue he wasn't going to break into the top or 5 while Q was coach. Leddy was different and they puked him at final hour and if they get anything of value out of that trade it is by luck more than anything else.
- Al

While I agree with this in principle, you can't argue with the fact that waiting the extra year too long to move players has resulted in the Stanley Cup twice now. So it's hard to argue with the results, even if there's a mess to be cleaned up later.

Somewhere down the line we're going to be able to look back at all of these moves objectively and see which ones worked out and how, much like we look at the Tallon moves for Sharp, Havlat, Versteeg, and others, and we can see what kind of impacts they've had on future success. Right now I think it's too early to judge any return on Raanta or Leddy or even Troy Brouwer at this point. We just won't know until guys a) become players, b) get moved for valuable pieces (a la Klas Dahlbeck), or c) bust out.

does bickel really play like he has a big body. And Hayes barely played the year he got traded. Hard to show or get anything going with 5 to 6mins of ice time. Anyways, in the end, it was more of a believe by management that he was not a good fit for Q's system. Cie La Vi
- Topshelf2010

5 to 6 minutes of ice time was enough for people to burn Rundblad's effigy but not enough to know Jimmy Hayes can't skate or catch a pass or read a play?

Nobody put the LAST out?

Last.

Hey JJ! Any news? We need a new blog...

putting aside Leddy for a moment. All Bowman has to get for Sharp and Bickell is cap space, anything else is icing. There are two facts about this off season.
Fact 1. Bowman had to get cap compliant before the beginning of the 2015/16 season.

Fact 2. The 2015/16 season is about three months away.
- paulr

Leddy is entirely different point....And if you follow me on Twitter I have posted the return I thought would be fair concerning picks and prospects...To take it a step further I wasn't surprised at all either Sharp or Bickell were not moved.

Lastly, unless another move happens Bowman is in no position to take back a significant contract so I'm not expecting much return. In my world if Sharp and Bickell can be dumped without retaining a portion of their salary Bowman should be content. There still is time but unless a unexpected injury to a key player happens which would bolster Sharp or Bickell's value....Time is not the ally of the Hawks.

While I agree with this in principle, you can't argue with the fact that waiting the extra year too long to move players has resulted in the Stanley Cup twice now. So it's hard to argue with the results, even if there's a mess to be cleaned up later.

Somewhere down the line we're going to be able to look back at all of these moves objectively and see which ones worked out and how, much like we look at the Tallon moves for Sharp, Havlat, Versteeg, and others, and we can see what kind of impacts they've had on future success. Right now I think it's too early to judge any return on Raanta or Leddy or even Troy Brouwer at this point. We just won't know until guys a) become players, b) get moved for valuable pieces (a la Klas Dahlbeck), or c) bust out.
- Sandus

I never question holding players important to winning...Leddy wasn't used in the playoffs and certainly the long list of young players traded at the last minute were not useful players here.

Hey guys and gals.........L.A.S.T.!