Those Canadians... They're stealing our thunder...
- BleedBlueGold

From the Leafs board, it's Montreal, Boston, then maybe Buffalo or Ottawa.

Proper coaching can change a lot of that. Look at Ovechkin for example.

His lack of back checking has been noted time and time again. Trotz gets there and he turned Ovi into a much more complete player...
- Stripes77

GREAT POINT
Trots thought Ovi was coachable & worth keeping around
Obv Babcock & Shanny DO NOT
what does that tell u?

GREAT POINT
Trots thought Ovi was coachable & worth keeping around
Obv Babcock & Shanny DO NOT
what does that tell u?
- jdfitz77

It tells me they know they aren't near winning so why not move their best player who is a winger mind you and get the most you can for him and build a team the right way.

Everything MLSE has built needs to be torn down, just like everything Darcy built had to be torn down. One reason Murray was able to turn it around (on paper) is he had assets from trades. The Leafs need to get those assets.

GREAT POINT
Trots thought Ovi was coachable & worth keeping around
Obv Babcock & Shanny DO NOT
what does that tell u?
- jdfitz77

Completely different circumstances

Shanny has never been a GM in his life and Babcock builds around centers

Sabres have those in place and they need a top line RWer

Again the Leafs are about 5 years out from being anything but the Leafs of last season. The Sabres are a year away from the playoffs if not sooner.
- Stripes77

Of course the situations aren't the same...
But if Kessel was the real deal he'd already have been traded for a great return like Kane or Oreilly got
Oreilly's contract didn't prevent him from being traded for a big return
Kane's "issues" didn't prevent him from being traded for a big return
Difference is...
Kessel isn't the complete player those two are, and he has more negatives surrounding him than those guys combined

He's not only the wrong guy for the Sabres
He's the wrong guy for ANYONE
He's a punk that will never be a winner BC of his BS attitude

It tells me they know they aren't near winning so why not move their best player who is a winger mind you and get the most you can for him and build a team the right way.

Everything MLSE has built needs to be torn down, just like everything Darcy built had to be torn down. One reason Murray was able to turn it around (on paper) is he had assets from trades. The Leafs need to get those assets.
- Stripes77

I already made this point....

I compared it to our situation a few years ago when we moved our "big names." Yes, ours was a bit different as timing wise our best guys were all going to be UFAs, but even if they weren't, they probably still should have/would have been moved.

Of course the situations aren't the same...
But if Kessel was the real deal he'd already have been traded for a great return like Kane or Oreilly got
Oreilly's contract didn't prevent him from being traded for a big return
Kane's "issues" didn't prevent him from being traded for a big return
Difference is...
Kessel isn't the complete player those two are, and he has more negatives surrounding him than those guys combined

He's not only the wrong guy for the Sabres
He's the wrong guy for ANYONE
He's a punk that will never be a winner BC of his BS attitude
- jdfitz77

He probably hasn't been moved yet because they haven't been offered what they want in return for him.

I've got a feeling Sekera ends up back in LA. They seem set on making it work with him.
- bluengold12

I think they want him
But they def have some work to do on their Cap
Idk if they can make it work
Esp now tht they added Lucic

Maybe if they can get rid of Voynov

That's an idea...
Anyone wanna "buy low" on Voynov?
Maybe a 2nd & 3rd next year gets it done?

He probably hasn't been moved yet because they haven't been offered what they want in return for him.
- HonkFortheGoose

Correct, his contract has kept teams from offering what they want for him, which is why they are now willing to eat $2 million of his salary.

They aren't getting rid of him because of his contract, they are getting rid of him because by the time they are good he will be leaving his prime and those resources could be used elsewhere

I think they want him
But they def have some work to do on their Cap
Idk if they can make it work
Esp now tht they added Lucic

Maybe if they can get rid of Voynov

That's an idea...
Anyone wanna "buy low" on Voynov?
Maybe a 2nd & 3rd next year gets it done?
- jdfitz77

Voynov isn't counting against their cap at the moment. (well, when the season starts at least. I think it works the same as the LTIR type of thing).

Of course the situations aren't the same...
But if Kessel was the real deal he'd already have been traded for a great return like Kane or Oreilly got
Oreilly's contract didn't prevent him from being traded for a big return
Kane's "issues" didn't prevent him from being traded for a big return
Difference is...
Kessel isn't the complete player those two are, and he has more negatives surrounding him than those guys combined

He's not only the wrong guy for the Sabres
He's the wrong guy for ANYONE
He's a punk that will never be a winner BC of his BS attitude
- jdfitz77

Ummmmm... the whole reason Kane was (allegedly) traded was because of his punk attitude............

ROR had one year left. Teams can negotiate with him.

I think they want him
But they def have some work to do on their Cap
Idk if they can make it work
Esp now tht they added Lucic

Maybe if they can get rid of Voynov

That's an idea...
Anyone wanna "buy low" on Voynov?
Maybe a 2nd & 3rd next year gets it done?
- jdfitz77

I wouldn't touch him with a 9 foot pole.

He probably hasn't been moved yet because they haven't been offered what they want in return for him.
- HonkFortheGoose

That's my point though
IF
He was worth it,
A trade would've been worked out by now

How long did it take for a Hamilton deal?
Kane, ROR, etc etc

If he's that good,
There's have been a bidding war at the draft & the Leafs would've made out like Bandits
He clearly has so many negatives that teams aren't willing To overpay for the risk

Ummmmm... the whole reason Kane was (allegedly) traded was because of his punk attitude............
- ImThatGuy

And why did we take the risk?
Not only was he a great talent (like Kessel)
But also know to be a complete player & hard worker
2 HUGE strikes against Kessel
And that's why I don't want him
Negative after negative with him, it's not just one thing u can work around

That's my point though
IF
He was worth it,
A trade would've been worked out by now

How long did it take for a Hamilton deal?
Kane, ROR, etc etc

If he's that good,
There's have been a bidding war at the draft & the Leafs would've made out like Bandits
He clearly has so many negatives that teams aren't willing To overpay for the risk
- jdfitz77

Most teams that would be willing to give up the amount of assets that the Leafs would be looking for are probably tight up against the cap and have to figure out how to make room for him first. Fitting that kind of salary is not easy to do.

Just like you are assuming everything else you have said

Also Boston is paying half of Lucic's salary
- Stripes77

No I'm not
Everything I've said is public knowledge
And the Leafs are willing to keep salary & still can't get anyone to give up anything for him
Any team trading for Kessel will definitely regret it

Completely different circumstances
- Slump Buster

No it's not
The Leafs missed the playoffs last year & were in it the year before
Same with the Caps

Maybe a big part of the reason the Leafs want to year it down is BC they know they can't be winners with Kessel & all his bs
The Caps decided they could be
And turned it right back around
The Leafs are bailing out,
PARTLY
BC of how Kessel has bailed on being a hard working professional
Dude is a joke

Most teams that would be willing to give up the amount of assets that the Leafs would be looking for are probably tight up against the cap and have to figure out how to make room for him first. Fitting that kind of salary is not easy to do.
- HonkFortheGoose

I guess
I'm sure there's teams (Florida has been mentioned) that have plenty of room
Esp with the Leafs willing to keep salary


I'm listening to TSN radio right now,
And they were just saying how the Leafs night have to keep Kessel bc NO ONE will give them a decent return
And they're hoping he can have a fast start & then be able to move him

I'm not making all this up
Kessel has so many knocks against him

I'll trade Foligno for him
Or something ridiculous like that
But that's the only way I'd risk it
The Leafs aren't doing that though
But it's also clear that teams are lowball ing Shanny BC of all the baggage Kessel brings

I wouldn't touch him with a 9 foot pole.
- Stripes77

Ok, because...

No I'm not
Everything I've said is public knowledge
And the Leafs are willing to keep salary & still can't get anyone to give up anything for him
Any team trading for Kessel will definitely regret it
- jdfitz77

Reported public knowledge

I have not seen a video or direct quotes from Shanny or Babcock in any of this

Ok, because...
- jdfitz77

He is still suspended and will be until his case is resolved.

And I have a thing about domestic abuse.

I was thinking about the Shanny point last night. Everyone just assumes that this is all going to work out for them. Why? The list of athletes that became successful organizational leaders is short and the ones that were terrible is long. Looks at Boston's GM. Also, if the rumors are true about LaFontaine not wanting to tank he would be on the list as well.
- Slump Buster

That's a fair point,
Except it's ALSO Babcock as well
That backs up the thought that Shanny is making the right decision IMO

I guess
I'm sure there's teams (Florida has been mentioned) that have plenty of room
Esp with the Leafs willing to keep salary


I'm listening to TSN radio right now,
And they were just saying how the Leafs night have to keep Kessel bc NO ONE will give them a decent return
And they're hoping he can have a fast start & then be able to move him

I'm not making all this up
Kessel has so many knocks against him

I'll trade Foligno for him
Or something ridiculous like that
But that's the only way I'd risk it
The Leafs aren't doing that though
But it's also clear that teams are lowball ing Shanny BC of all the baggage Kessel brings
- jdfitz77

Why hasn't Sharp been moved yet? Or Bickell? None of the teams with space seem to be willing to give up what these teams up against the cap want for them. The Lucic trade shouldn't be factored into any of this because it was two Cap strapped teams that made that deal so the circumstances are completely different.

The teams that have room to take on these contracts don't want to give up a ton for these guys right now knowing that the teams up against the cap will eventually get desperate to make space somehow and will come down in price.

It's pretty much a game of chicken right now.

That's a fair point,
Except it's ALSO Babcock as well
That backs up the thought that Shanny is making the right decision IMO
- jdfitz77

Sure, but Babcock has never been a personnel guy either. He is widely believed to have been behind the Stephen Weise signing.

No it's not
The Leafs missed the playoffs last year & were in it the year before
Same with the Caps

Maybe a big part of the reason the Leafs want to year it down is BC they know they can't be winners with Kessel & all his bs
The Caps decided they could be
And turned it right back around
The Leafs are bailing out,
PARTLY
BC of how Kessel has bailed on being a hard working professional
Dude is a joke
- jdfitz77

You cant discredit the situation he was in and the clear 180 degree direction change that franchise took mid season. Hell we had ehrhoff do basically the same thing for us, he was bought out then signed in pittsburgh and was playing well and helping that team untill his injury.

He isnt a heart and soul locker room leader, and here he wouldnt need to be. He is a guy who scores alot of goals in the NHL. The sabres need a top line pure goal scorer.

I was in on the nash debate last night, and im all for kessel too. ESPECIALLY if his salary is 6 million.