Seriously though I don't think some understand that when mgmt says we are going to be competitive while adding youth, that it likely means we are still going to see those vets the majority of the time.
Location: I didn't read it , BC Joined: 09.21.2013
Jul 13 @ 5:53 PM ET
I think it will depend greatly on if he can play well enough away from the puck and in his own zone. Vey was given every opportunity early and while it produced some points, by the end of the season you could see WD was more comfortable with a guy like Macmillan than him.
WD is going to try and win every single game and that means he will be deploying his vets at the end of the game, down a goal, etc.... If Baertschi cannot earn that trust I think we will see less of him than some expect/hope. - belcherbd
That isn't fair. Feckin love affair with former players... err.. One guy is focused on scoring, the other is focused on not fecking up.
Not sure where McMillan fits in. He didn't look bad at times, just would rather see Grenier have an opportunity over him. But WD is stubborn.
WD is going to have to let some of these kids make mistakes. Growing pains have to be expected.
Not sure if it is smarts or game plan. Then again, if you don't agree with their game plan then it is all about smarts
Our expectations vs owner/organization. If they are in a playoff position at tdl, I have no idea what they will do or if they will have made any changes before then. - hillbillydeluxe
Best thing for this club, would be to replicate the 2013-14 season and come in at 12th in the west and draft high with a top 6 overall pick, as well as unloading ufa's for picks at the TDL.
Gone are
Vrbata
Prust
Maybe Burrows and Higgins
Hamhuis
Maybe Edler and Miller
I think unless he is moved Higgins will be on the "2nd line" and be getting 1st PK and 2nd PP minutes. WD trusts him a lot.
Sedin Sedin Vrbata (slow but skilled) 20 min
Higgins Bonino Prust ( tough matchups) 15 min
Baertschi Horvat Hansen (speed ) 12.5 min
Burrows Vey Dorsett (forecheck) 12.5 min - belcherbd
Thats why with 1st line when you say slow but skilled you put burrows there cause hes got speed to burn. Makes entire line more effective.
sedin sedin burrows
higgins horvat vrbatta
baertschi bonino virtanen /hansen
dorsett vey prust
I see hanson as more of an asset on special teams seeing PP time and PK time.
If on PK you position Hansen up top close to between defence on blueline he can be very effective picking off cross ice passes and going on breakaways with his speed. If you cant pass on blueline due to constant threat of turnover to a speedy winger your PP is pretty much shut down.
Location: I didn't read it , BC Joined: 09.21.2013
Jul 13 @ 6:00 PM ET
Seriously though I don't think some understand that when mgmt says we are going to be competitive while adding youth, that it likely means we are still going to see those vets the majority of the time. - belcherbd
It is hard to accept the vets when some of the kids are so close.
If Grenier or JV make the team out of camp, and Kenins makes it too... JB will have some work to do. I guess these are the problems you want to have as a GM. The challenge is it might be hard to move guys, who get beat out of a spot, while every other team is making cuts on who to keep and who to let go. Too much supply.
Thats why with 1st line when you say slow but skilled you put burrows there cause hes got speed to burn. Makes entire line more effective.
sedin sedin burrows
higgins horvat vrbatta
baertschi bonino virtanen /hansen
dorsett vey prust
I see hanson as more of an asset on special teams seeing PP time and PK time.
If on PK you position Hansen up top close to between defence on blueline he can be very effective picking off cross ice passes and going on breakaways with his speed. If you cant pass on blueline due to constant threat of turnover to a speedy winger your PP is pretty much shut down. - SMBDragon
I think that 4th line gets destroyed, Prust and Dorsett are nice complementary players but they are not going to push the puck in the right direction.
Burrows also isn't much faster than Vrbata anymore but I do think we will see both of them with the Sedins as per usual.
It is hard to accept the vets when some of the kids are so close.
If Grenier or JV make the team out of camp, and Kenins makes it too... JB will have some work to do. I guess these are the problems you want to have as a GM. The challenge is it might be hard to move guys, who get beat out of a spot, while every other team is making cuts on who to keep and who to let go. Too much supply. - hillbillydeluxe
If they decide to give JV his 9 games then I think you see Kenins go back to Utica.
He has 35 more games until is is waiver eligible and can move back and forth without any worries until he plays those games.
I think Grenier will be the 13th forward regardless of what JV does, they might try to sneak him through later in the season but probably want to see whether he is ready before making that decision. They more or less know what they are going to get from Kenins and I think it would make sense if they use his waiver status to their advantage while deciding on Grenier or JV.
All of this of course is moot if there is an injury or a trade.
JB wasnt doing a rebuild last summer. He was making moves for a coming transition while promising to try and make the playoffs to fans and owner.
This is why you can't understand. You have to go all the way back to the Miller signing and rethink what position the team was in. You seem to be arguing from the future which makes no sense. Even this season we are not in full rebuild.
Logically, the full rebuild will be when the Sedins are gone. It's no coincidence that Miller will be gone then. We will be in 100% rebuild then.
If you are truly interested in understanding the signing... open up you mind a bit. - boonerbuck
Aaaaaaand away we go...
First of all I think we are arguing semantics too much. You, others, and canuck management call it a retool. Doesn't matter what you call essentially they are rebuilding the team. That was evident when Kesler and Bieksa were dumped and others were being shopped.
I believe the ‘plan’ from the very beginning was and still is to rebuild. It was obvious when JB took over and you would have to be blind not to see it. This retooling on the fly is just a marketing ploy to appease the sheep. Lefty has talked about this in the past. This market won’t stand for tanking.
As you have stated in the past JB doesn’t want to walk into a situation and fail immediately so you go out and get a proven goalie that will hopefully steal you some games. Plus this organization still needs to create a façade of competitiveness. Promising to make the playoffs only to get bounced in the first round has nothing to do about the fans or creating a winning environment. It's about the owner pocketing a few extra dollars.
I’ll accept that because JB’s protecting his and the organization’s image. That’s what he’s paid to do. But don’t try and sell it any other way.
I hate the Miller signing and I hate the sell-job of retooling on the fly. If your destination from the beginning of this process is point ‘B’ then get there as fast as possible.
I don't know how he keeps coming up with the opposite to what management has said and done... he's the only one I've seen that has this management in full rebuild. - boonerbuck
Because it's horsepoop.
With the current roster as it stands, where do you have the canucks finishing?
My point being there is no way in hell that our team's roster can compete in our conference. That's an undeniable fact. Rebuild is required and that's what JB is doing so I have no problem with that. It's just Miller seems to be a silly diversion from an otherwise good teardown.
Sure if you want to get your pom poms out and cheer on the fellas go right ahead. Stay positive and think to yourself "if they can just make the playoffs anything can happen!"
But I ain't buying the poop those marketing twats are selling.
With the current roster as it stands, where do you have the canucks finishing?
My point being there is no way in hell that our team's roster can compete in our conference. That's an undeniable fact. Rebuild is required and that's what JB is doing so I have no problem with that. It's just Miller seems to be a silly diversion from an otherwise good teardown.
Sure if you want to get your pom poms out and cheer on the fellas go right ahead. Stay positive and think to yourself "if they can just make the playoffs anything can happen!"
But I ain't buying the poop those marketing twats are selling. - bloatedmosquito
I don't think it is as complicated as you are making it.
Benning thought/thinks that Miller was/is worth his contract.
If Benning truly was tearing it down while trying to sell the notion of competitiveness then why has he been moving as many picks to acquire lottery ticket older prospects?
Why didn't he move players on expiring contracts regardless of how good the return was? I don't believe the answer to that is purely marketing, they think they can do this on the fly.
Whether I agree with his moves or not, I certainly believe he thinks this team will be competitive, at least in the sense that it will be able to push for a playoff berth each year.
With the current roster as it stands, where do you have the canucks finishing?
My point being there is no way in hell that our team's roster can compete in our conference. That's an undeniable fact. Rebuild is required and that's what JB is doing so I have no problem with that. It's just Miller seems to be a silly diversion from an otherwise good teardown.
Sure if you want to get your pom poms out and cheer on the fellas go right ahead. Stay positive and think to yourself "if they can just make the playoffs anything can happen!"
But I ain't buying the poop those marketing twats are selling. - bloatedmosquito
What the hell would twats know about selling poop. You don't sell the product made by your neighbour.
Location: I didn't read it , BC Joined: 09.21.2013
Jul 13 @ 6:52 PM ET
If they decide to give JV his 9 games then I think you see Kenins go back to Utica.
He has 35 more games until is is waiver eligible and can move back and forth without any worries until he plays those games.
I think Grenier will be the 13th forward regardless of what JV does, they might try to sneak him through later in the season but probably want to see whether he is ready before making that decision. They more or less know what they are going to get from Kenins and I think it would make sense if they use his waiver status to their advantage while deciding on Grenier or JV.
All of this of course is moot if there is an injury or a trade. - belcherbd
Maybe there isn't that much of a rush to make decisions. Always getting ahead of myself.
I don't think it is as complicated as you are making it.
Benning thought/thinks that Miller was/is worth his contract.
If Benning truly was tearing it down while trying to sell the notion of competitiveness then why has he been moving as many picks to acquire lottery ticket older prospects?
Why didn't he move players on expiring contracts regardless of how good the return was? I don't believe the answer to that is purely marketing, they think they can do this on the fly.
Whether I agree with his moves or not, I certainly believe he thinks this team will be competitive, at least in the sense that it will be able to push for a playoff berth each year. - belcherbd
With comparing our roster with the other 13 where do you have us finishing? Do you think winnipeg, dallas, LA, calgary, minnisota, etc will improve?
I think the canucks are destined for the bottom and that makes me happy. I don't think being competitive is an option. Too many teams have improved.
I say embrace our teams suckiness and (frank) this staying competitive poop.
Location: "The Alien has landed in Vancouver!" Joined: 03.09.2006
Jul 13 @ 7:13 PM ET
With comparing our roster with the other 13 where do you have us finishing? Do you think winnipeg, dallas, LA, calgary, minnisota, etc will improve?
I think the canucks are destined for the bottom and that makes me happy. I don't think being competitive is an option. Too many teams have improved.
I say embrace our teams suckiness and (frank) this staying competitive poop. - bloatedmosquito
Winnipeg got in by the skin of their teeth, until their goaltending improves they aren't going to make it this year.
Dallas has a really crappy defense and goaltending and will be where they are again.
LA will have a bounceback season and likely make the playoffs this year
Calgary overachieved like Colorado did and will regress, but only because they lack goaltending.
Minnesota is fading fast, they still have no real offense and the contracts of Suter and Parise are going to drag that franchise down for a long time to come.
Colorado will be better this year, but until they get some veteran help on their D, they'll still flounder a bit.
Edmonton will be better, but how much will depend on if Nurse and Klefbom can become that dominant #1-2 pair on D and if Talbot can play like he did in New York. McDavid makes their offense that much better.
All in all, we'll contend for one of the wildcard spots and either make it or be 9th. We aren't good enough to challenge for a top spot, but we aren't going to be bad enough and the teams around us improve that much to push us to the bottom.
Location: I didn't read it , BC Joined: 09.21.2013
Jul 13 @ 7:21 PM ET
With comparing our roster with the other 13 where do you have us finishing? Do you think winnipeg, dallas, LA, calgary, minnisota, etc will improve?
I think the canucks are destined for the bottom and that makes me happy. I don't think being competitive is an option. Too many teams have improved.
I say embrace our teams suckiness and (frank) this staying competitive poop. - bloatedmosquito
I keep saying, JB hold onto your picks! (Especially the first rounders.)
As long as the Sedins are here, we will have a good chance at making the playoffs. JB will continue to try and make the playoffs. If we miss, bonus, better picks.
Any chance we will have drafted 2 legit top 6 forwards that will be ready to take over for the Sedins when they retire? There is the rebuild if the retool didn't work.
With comparing our roster with the other 13 where do you have us finishing? Do you think winnipeg, dallas, LA, calgary, minnisota, etc will improve?
I think the canucks are destined for the bottom and that makes me happy. I don't think being competitive is an option. Too many teams have improved.
I say embrace our teams suckiness and (frank) this staying competitive poop. - bloatedmosquito
I think you are over estimating how much the "other" teams have improved, and how much the Canucks will fall off this year. Even if you don't want to accept it, this team is still a competitive team that will challenge for the playoffs. Maybe LA will be better, but maybe Lucic will be a train wreck, or maybe they're just not a good enough regular season team to make the playoffs. Maybe San Jose will improve, but I have my doubts. Maybe Dallas will improve, they'll sure score a lot of goals, but they likely won't be able to keep them out of their own net. Arizona. Edmonton, you think they will improve by 30 or more points in one season? Calgary could be better, but they're playing with fire in their possession stats and could see that come back to bite them.
There are so many variables, but if you look at the standings over the past 10 years, the Canucks should be right there at playoff time. Can they win a round? Probably not.
No idea....people just hear what they want to hear sometimes. Benning and Linden have never waivered from their plan. They want to make the playoffs while inserting youth into the lineup. I respect them for fallowing the plan they outlined when they took over. You can certainly make an argument that they should be more aggressive with their plan but ultimately I think we are finding out that perhaps Van fans overvalue of vets.
I believe Higgins and/ or Burrows need to go. We need a few more spots for youth. Perhaps Higgins is tradeable at the deadline? We will find out soon enough. - CanuckDon
I agree. I don't think I'm 100% on board with the plan as it's playing out this moment but it's not hard to see what plan they are executing. I would have liked if JB's work orders were all about rebuild but he was hired with a set of orders and that's what they are dealing with. The ongoing contracts from before JB are the hold up as well. Miller's contract does not expand beyond those... I don't get the hang up on his contract at all. It conflicts only with the man crush people have on Lack.
Winnipeg got in by the skin of their teeth, until their goaltending improves they aren't going to make it this year.
Dallas has a really crappy defense and goaltending and will be where they are again.
LA will have a bounceback season and likely make the playoffs this year
Calgary overachieved like Colorado did and will regress, but only because they lack goaltending.
Minnesota is fading fast, they still have no real offense and the contracts of Suter and Parise are going to drag that franchise down for a long time to come.
Colorado will be better this year, but until they get some veteran help on their D, they'll still flounder a bit.
Edmonton will be better, but how much will depend on if Nurse and Klefbom can become that dominant #1-2 pair on D and if Talbot can play like he did in New York. McDavid makes their offense that much better.
All in all, we'll contend for one of the wildcard spots and either make it or be 9th. We aren't good enough to challenge for a top spot, but we aren't going to be bad enough and the teams around us improve that much to push us to the bottom. - DariusKnight
Dougie Hamilton makes calgary much better
McDavid a new goalie a better de a real coach I think Edmonton is better but we shall see.
LA will be better
Sanjose is going to be terrible
Dallas will also be terrible
Vancouver will be mediocre again as the Sedins are too good.
With comparing our roster with the other 13 where do you have us finishing? Do you think winnipeg, dallas, LA, calgary, minnisota, etc will improve?
I think the canucks are destined for the bottom and that makes me happy. I don't think being competitive is an option. Too many teams have improved.
I say embrace our teams suckiness and (frank) this staying competitive poop. - bloatedmosquito
I'm talking purely regular season here but I think Van will be in the hunt for the wildcard spots.
Whether they make it or not depends on if they have significant injures and if like I posted before our Centres, specifically Horvat and Vey can step up.
I think Calgary, Winnipeg and Minnesota all regress slightly and will be also fighting for the wildcard spot.
LA is a team I refuse to try and predict but I'm not terribly surprised that they are starting to fall apart at the seams. Lucic might make them a better team but he also might ramp up their dysfunctional lever as well. Depends mostly which Quick shows up.
Dallas will have the same type of year, they didn't do anything to address their goaltending or defense IMO.
Edm will be better at scoring goals but I don't think they learn how to stop them yet.
Col and SJ are the biggest wild cards for me, I think Col will be better with Beauchemin and Zadorov, Mackinnon bounces back, Soderberg is underrated and Grigerenko will do well reunited with Roy.
With SJ, I think they have so much talent and play the game with so much control, the moved Scott and Irwin for Ward and Martin which is a huge improvement. My only question marks are new coach and whether Jones/Stalock will get the job done.
I guess to summarize, I see Col and SJ making it and 2 or 3 of Cal, Van, Wpg, and Min missing depending on if LA gets it poop together. All these teams won't be separated by much IMO.
....... 
Feckin love affair with former players... err.. One guy is focused on scoring, the other is focused on not fecking up. 
But WD is stubborn. 
(Especially the first rounders.)
