he's probably headed for ltir... with pronger traded they need someone to man that role.
- JoeRussomanno

I think the best things that could happen would be in training camp

a) Hakstol skates him "to death" and he hangs it up

b) One of the young guys runs into him at full speed and glass jaw peanut brittle VLC suffers a career ender

Whose the last significant free agent signing they've gotten good value from? Let's say a cap hit over 2 mil per

Not trying to be wise I'm just scratching my head at this. The European signings don't count

Edit- it would be streit. Trying to think of anyone else recently
- Just5

Probably Jagr. Most Flyers fans, or at least the ones I interact with most, are so focused on the negative, and overlook the positives. Flyers have had their share of moves that didn't work out, most notably Bryzgalov and Lecavalier. They've also had a poopload of moves that did work out. The Lecavalier situation is looked at like it's such a lead weight and a crushing move, when it's really not. In the long run, it's nothing more than a speed bump and isn't going to have a big effect on the Flyers moving forward.

I think the best things that could happen would be in training camp

a) Hakstol skates him "to death" and he hangs it up

b) One of the young guys runs into him at full speed and glass jaw peanut brittle VLC suffers a career ender
- Steelmanpa

As long as it doesn't affect his quality of life, #2 is fine with me.

I think the best things that could happen would be in training camp

a) Hakstol skates him "to death" and he hangs it up

b) One of the young guys runs into him at full speed and glass jaw peanut brittle VLC suffers a career ender
- Steelmanpa

Sorry, but I personally wouldn't call a player suffering a serious injury a good thing under any circumstances.

It's just denial. Eventually the advanced stats will become so detailed that it will be sheer stupidity not to use them.

The NBA and mlb went through this exact transformation and now only maybe 3 teams don't rely heavily on them (one being the Phillies).
- PhillySportsGuy

Completely different sports. The stats will have to become a lot better than they are now, to become reliable on a heavily used basis. As they are now, I agree with Hextall, maybe 5-10% input towards the overall picture.

Sorry, but I personally wouldn't call a player suffering a serious injury a good thing under any circumstances.
- MJL

I'd applaud a player beating Voynov to within an inch of his life (including punching, kicking , and choking him) and I wouldn't mind if Ribiero was held down an sodomized on the ice...as long as the player doing to sodomizing and his wife told Ribiero that it wasn't a big deal.

Honestly feel bad for Wheels, in this regard:

He clearly doesn't see that he can't skate well enough to play in today's NHL, and until he realizes that this league is totally different than it was even five years ago, he's going to continue to be frustrated

200-foot-game, gotta be able to skate. These coaches aren't trying to hear anything else, and they're not going to get fired trying to figure out how to make you fit into a system where you aren't good at either

Whose the last significant free agent signing they've gotten good value from? Let's say a cap hit over 2 mil per

Not trying to be wise I'm just scratching my head at this. The European signings don't count

Edit- it would be streit. Trying to think of anyone else recently
- Just5

They've done a far better job in the bargain bin recently. They also haven't made a big FA signing since the summer of Streit & Vinny. Watching some of the Medvedev highlights, he could be a good one.

It's just denial. Eventually the advanced stats will become so detailed that it will be sheer stupidity not to use them.

The NBA and mlb went through this exact transformation and now only maybe 3 teams don't rely heavily on them (one being the Phillies).
- PhillySportsGuy

At least it seems like the team is finally moving in that direction (or at least open to new info) now.

I'm just afraid that if they don't start investing heavily in research to come up w/ some really novel/groundbreaking proprietary poop, that they'll perpetually be caught behind the early adopters who have.

Like whichever team it was that got Eric T is gonna reap huge rewards in the future.

Honestly feel bad for Wheels, in this regard:

He clearly doesn't see that he can't skate well enough to play in today's NHL, and until he realizes that this league is totally different than it was even five years ago, he's going to continue to be frustrated

200-foot-game, gotta be able to skate. These coaches aren't trying to hear anything else, and they're not going to get fired trying to figure out how to make you fit into a system where you aren't good at either
- AllInForFlyers

I was all for Vinny when he was signed. I ignored a lot of the stats that hinted he was in decline, and focused on him putting up decent offensive numbers. I was wrong.

Now they basically have $4.5mm in dead space, tying up a contract and roster slot. For a team the operates on the fringe of the cap every year, it's an issue

At least it seems like the team is finally moving in that direction (or at least open to new info) now.

I'm just afraid that if they don't start investing heavily in research to come up w/ some really novel/groundbreaking proprietary poop, that they'll perpetually be caught behind the early adopters who have.

Like whichever team it was that got Eric T is gonna reap huge rewards in the future.
- Tomahawk

Tangradi?

Tangradi?
- jmatchett383

Tulsky, former BSH stats guru

At least it seems like the team is finally moving in that direction (or at least open to new info) now.

I'm just afraid that if they don't start investing heavily in research to come up w/ some really novel/groundbreaking proprietary poop, that they'll perpetually be caught behind the early adopters who have.

Like whichever team it was that got Eric T is gonna reap huge rewards in the future.
- Tomahawk

I don't think we're quite there yet, though. I think teams are all relatively sane right now in the regard that they all have a pretty decent grasp of the concept of peak production, declining production in the 30s, and the lack of value of "intangibles" for players who offer no other skills.

I personally think the advantages will come in the proper rating of draft prospects -- not that it will ever become an advanced science -- but the ability to project what a third/fourth/fifth etc. rounder might do, based on their raw observables and production, will set teams apart

At least it seems like the team is finally moving in that direction (or at least open to new info) now.

I'm just afraid that if they don't start investing heavily in research to come up w/ some really novel/groundbreaking proprietary poop, that they'll perpetually be caught behind the early adopters who have.

Like whichever team it was that got Eric T is gonna reap huge rewards in the future.
- Tomahawk

I think scouts are so afraid that a computer nerd will take their job.

There is some misconception that analytics guys don't watch the games and just read numbers on a screen or input numbers into a machine and it pops out a yes or no.

It's just stupid for teams not to use them more. They'll rely on old cliches to evaluate players but data is just too unreliable. GTFOOH

At least it seems like the team is finally moving in that direction (or at least open to new info) now.

I'm just afraid that if they don't start investing heavily in research to come up w/ some really novel/groundbreaking proprietary poop, that they'll perpetually be caught behind the early adopters who have.

Like whichever team it was that got Eric T is gonna reap huge rewards in the future.
- Tomahawk

Toronto really benefitted from hiring Kyle Dubas last year.

Tulsky, former BSH stats guru
- Jsaquella

Okay.

Does Eric Tangradi have a firm grasp of the correct application of the fancy stats?

He clearly doesn't see that he can't skate well enough to play in today's NHL, and until he realizes that this league is totally different than it was even five years ago, he's going to continue to be frustrated
- AllInForFlyers

Well, actually, we do not know what he sees or does not see.

I think scouts are so afraid that a computer nerd will take their job.


- PhillySportsGuy

If that statement was made to veteran NHL scouts, they'd laugh hysterically.

Okay.

Does Eric Tangradi have a firm grasp of the correct application of the fancy stats?
- jmatchett383

No idea

Toronto really benefitted from hiring Kyle Dubas last year.
- MJL

Adequate sample size usage there.

Jake Voracek once played a game without scoring a goal. Therefore, Jake Voracek has never scored a goal.

No idea
- Jsaquella

Maybe the Flyers should look into that.

I was all for Vinny when he was signed. I ignored a lot of the stats that hinted he was in decline, and focused on him putting up decent offensive numbers. I was wrong.

Now they basically have $4.5mm in dead space, tying up a contract and roster slot. For a team the operates on the fringe of the cap every year, it's an issue
- Jsaquella

Me too -- I'm not afraid to admit I was wrong

As long as it doesn't affect his quality of life, #2 is fine with me.
- jmatchett383

Naw, its easy to reduce someones effectiveness to the point of not being able to play pro without affecting quality of life

Any by skating to death, I meant, such a high tempo he pukes all the time since he cant keep up (bag skates that are "death" to older players and young guys can party at night and still do)

Edit
VLC is probably so bull headed he still wouldnt know he was done
Like the skit in Monty Python where the knight keeps losing arms and legs and still wants a fight

Toronto really benefitted from hiring Kyle Dubas last year.
- MJL

Come on, man -- they didn't benefit from not having him the decade-plus where they missed the playoffs 10 times, either

It's fine to argue/disagree, but let's at least try to make the disagreements one where we are talking about the same things

Adequate sample size usage there.

Jake Voracek once played a game without scoring a goal. Therefore, Jake Voracek has never scored a goal.
- jmatchett383

Poor analogy. A full season is plenty to see if it's having an effect or not. We know that Voracek has scored goals in games previous to the game he once played without scoring a goal.