Hextall wasn't hired due to his use and expertise of analytics. Gubas was.
- MJL

None of that was said. Complete misrepresentation.

So Dubas is responsible for the players he didn't bring in performing poorly, but he has nothing to do with the direction and young talent brought in through the draft. Got it
- PhillySportsGuy

Yes. That is exactly correct. Dubas was, what, 19 when the Leafs first missed the playoffs after the 2005 lockout.

All that poop was his fault

If only he traded Bozak
- Jsaquella

I think the funniest thing about the entire analytics argument is that the Blackhawks are the one team who uses them pretty heavily and they're the most successful team in hockey. Yet, teams are still resistant.

Shanahan and Dubas spent a year reviewing the roster, coaches and front office and decided to rebuild the team and organization. If we are to judge them harshly because they didn't make "progress", then what does that say about Ron Hextall?

He took over a playoff team and promptly finished as the 7th worst team in the NHL.
- Jsaquella

Scouts look at skill level and hockey sense.
- MJL

Scouts look for what management asks them to prioritize, right? If the GM wants to build a big, truculent team, then a guy like Biggs will end up higher in on their draft board than he otherwise would. Stands to reason that it would run in the other direction.

So, since Hextall wasn't hired as a proponent of analytics, his progress gets measured differently? That's a pretty (frank)ing stupid argument to make.

Also Dubas wasn't hired solely for stats, he was hired more for building the Sault Ste Marie Greyhounds into a powerful OHL team. That probably carried a bit more weight than analytics. Same reason they hired Mark Hunter. He buolt a strong team in London.

Scouts look for what management asks them to prioritize, right? If the GM wants to build a big, truculent team, then a guy like Biggs will end up higher in on their draft board than he otherwise would. Stands to reason that it would run in the other direction.
- Tomahawk

Lies...all lies

I think the funniest thing about the entire analytics argument is that the Blackhawks are the one team who uses them pretty heavily and they're the most successful team in hockey. Yet, teams are still resistant.
- PhillySportsGuy

Exactly how heavily do the Blackhawks use analytics, and where are you getting that information from?

And now, the double-triple-quadruple down is in effect

Scouts look for what management asks them to prioritize, right? If the GM wants to build a big, truculent team, then a guy like Biggs will end up higher in on their draft board than he otherwise would. Stands to reason that it would run in the other direction.
- Tomahawk

No I don't think that is right at all. Teams ask scouts to look at certain leagues or certain players. I don't believe they ask them to prioritize looking at certain kinds of players.

I think the funniest thing about the entire analytics argument is that the Blackhawks are the one team who uses them pretty heavily and they're the most successful team in hockey. Yet, teams are still resistant.
- PhillySportsGuy

That's part of it. Analytics aren't everything, but they can be a helpful tool. I'm sure that the Hawks don't solely use analytics, but they freely admit they play a role

Hextall wasn't hired due to his use and expertise of analytics. Gubas was.
- MJL

In part. He also had a nice track record of turning a bad junior team around -- and now he's the de facto GM of the Leafs.

Let's all go fight a bear!

What's a stupid argument is comparing a GM, to a asst GM, and measuring them by the same standard in the first place. The original analogy was what was stupid. The question asked is what effect to this point has the hiring of Dubas had? Simple question. Nobody has placed trhe full weight of the dierction of the franchise on the hiring of Dubas.

- 77rams

Absolutely screwed.

That's part of it. Analytics aren't everything, but they can be a helpful tool. I'm sure that the Hawks don't solely use analytics, but they freely admit they play a role
- Jsaquella

Well once they have any real success, then we can consider their usefulness. Don't you know that Toronto uses them and they didn't win the Cup?

Exactly how heavily do the Blackhawks use analytics, and where are you getting that information from?
- MJL

http://espn.go.com/nhl/st...give-blackhawks-advantage

http://espn.go.com/nhl/story/_/id/12370826/analytics-give-blackhawks-advantage
- PhillySportsGuy

How dare you find information to support your position when the double-triple-quadruple down is in effect

You know that poop isn't getting acknowledged, not for one second

As per the Chicago Sun Times, 6/3/15:

The Lightning and Blackhawks are two teams at the forefront of hockey analytics, making the Stanley Cup Final between the two a glowing endorsement for the numbers game.

ESPN recently ranked all major sports teams on their use of analytics, and the Blackhawks were the gold standard in the NHL. They were the only hockey team to crack the overall top 10 out of 122.

As per the Chicago Sun Times, 6/3/15:

The Lightning and Blackhawks are two teams at the forefront of hockey analytics, making the Stanley Cup Final between the two a glowing endorsement for the numbers game.

ESPN recently ranked all major sports teams on their use of analytics, and the Blackhawks were the gold standard in the NHL. They were the only hockey team to crack the overall top 10 out of 122.
- 77rams

WTF is wrong with you -- see my post above

Well once they have any real success, then we can consider their usefulness. Don't you know that Toronto uses them and they didn't win the Cup?
- jmatchett383

Yeah three Stanley Cups in six years, and 5 in 7 if you count the Kings, who also freely admit to using analytics, is trumped by Toronto being bad in the first year of a rebuild.

The funny part is how the argument changes when more people point out how (frank)ing dumb it is. Standard practice here, but still funny

http://espn.go.com/nhl/story/_/id/12370826/analytics-give-blackhawks-advantage
- PhillySportsGuy

WTF is wrong with you -- see my post above
- AllInForFlyers

I type slow.

How dare you find information to support your position when the double-triple-quadruple down is in effect

You know that poop isn't getting acknowledged, not for one second
- AllInForFlyers

Guarantee he's feverishly looking through the article for a piece of information he can take out of context and paste here

Guarantee he's feverishly looking through the article for a piece of information he can take out of context and paste here
- PhillySportsGuy