You guys realize this argument is really about one group believing Amac is a 3/4 defenseman and another group believing he's a 4/5 defenseman
- PhillySportsGuy

No. 5 on a good team, which is what we all want the Flyers to be

I've never understood why they just don't platoon Ruf. Now, it's kind of out of my mind, but in seasons past, especially last year, I just didn't get it. I actually don't even like Ruf. I think his power is overrated with a K rate worse than Howard. I suspect he'd come up short but I'd rather a new guy come up short than an old guy expectedly coming up short.
- Mononoke

Even if you don't like him, showcase him a but and turn him into an asset. Now he's 29, never been a regular...after that big minor league season, maybe they should have shopped him

Oh you have to think they'll give him an outward looking "fair shot," even if they probably have their minds made up on scratching him. I've just never understood the logic that bc Vinny plays with Pebbles and VDV and doesn't look good that he'll magically return to contributing form at least if he was bumped up. He was bumped down in the first place because he couldn't deal with the tougher play. Just strikes me as going round and round and round.
- Mononoke

Hakstol wants to play a skating, puck pressure 200 foot game, like every other team does. I don't see Lecavalier being able to play effectively in that style. I also don't see him being able to score enough to offset that. I think the natural decline, along with the back injury has caught up to him.

Maybe the only thing to restore Vinny to any use is a Lazarus Pit (to any DC comic fans)....maybe Umby too. I'm willing to accept Umby might be better without banking on him being so. He'd surprise me more so if he was contributing. Truth be told, I think of him as a 4th liner more than Pebbles or White. Let's say Schenn centers the 3rd line or Laughton, I just don't want to see them dragging around Umberger. Having seen Coots do it left me nauseous enough. That's no devlopment helper

Obviously the roster may change between now and opening night but I'd love to see Giroux and Voracek separated. Keep them together on the 1st PP unit.

Raffl Giroux Simmonds
Gagner Couturier Voracek
Read Schenn Umberger
White Bellemare Lecavalier/VandeVelde
- Pixote Andolini

def wanna see Couts w/ Jake for so many reasons. wouldn't put Gagner w/ them tho, but minor deal.

i hear you there. my "strategy" would be to freeze Vinny out. iow, once Hakstol comes to the same logical conclusion that brooby did, i'd just tell him that there's no room for him. then i'd wait it out until he's willing to be more flexible for a trade or termination. he really could only play in Europe right now, so if the "biological clock is ticking" ( ), how bad does he want to play anywhere?
- isaiah520

I think Lecavalier is as flexible towards a trade as possible. I don't think there is currently a market for him. I don't think he can come back from another season as a frequent healthy scratch, and a lack of production. I think if he is in the same situation as he was last year, for a full season, his NHL career is over.

Oh you have to think they'll give him an outward looking "fair shot," even if they probably have their minds made up on scratching him. I've just never understood the logic that bc Vinny plays with Pebbles and VDV and doesn't look good that he'll magically return to contributing form at least if he was bumped up. He was bumped down in the first place because he couldn't deal with the tougher play. Just strikes me as going round and round and round.
- Mononoke

I would just say, regarding this, is that it isn't easy to, after 20 years of playing a certain role to drop down to a lower line and essentially learn a completely different style of play is at best difficult.
And then there is the whole swallowing pride thing

Oh you have to think they'll give him an outward looking "fair shot," even if they probably have their minds made up on scratching him. I've just never understood the logic that bc Vinny plays with Pebbles and VDV and doesn't look good that he'll magically return to contributing form at least if he was bumped up. He was bumped down in the first place because he couldn't deal with the tougher play. Just strikes me as going round and round and round.
- Mononoke

I think people look at like, with better players, who might be able to get him the puck where he can score. Of course, he has to be able to fit in with those better players

I would just say, regarding this, is that it isn't easy to, after 20 years of playing a certain role to drop down to a lower line and essentially learn a completely different style of play is at best difficult.
And then there is the whole swallowing pride thing
- nails

I personally don't think he is capable of adapting to a different role as a player.

I personally don't think he is capable of adapting to a different role as a player.
- MJL

I agree.
He needs to be in a plane can succeed.
4th line isn't it

I could see Hakstol giving Lecavalier a look in the pre-season, if only to try and build a market for him. I just can't see him rejuvenated enough to draw interest.
- Jsaquella

I agree, I think Hakstol and Hexy would love for him to produce to help find a buyer. I do believe they will give VL a chance but I have little hope that he will be anything more then last year. tough situation for Hakstol and Hexy. Don't see Hexy panicking on VL though...think he could just ride it out if he can't work any magic.

def wanna see Couts w/ Jake for so many reasons. wouldn't put Gagner w/ them tho, but minor deal.
- isaiah520

I would definitely love to see Coots with Jake for more than 3 games or whatever. They didn't score but man did they puck dominate. I'm too tired to do anything statistical but all of you know Coots's story. I see him as our 2C; I see a very good playmaker in the making; and I see a guy who doesn't just dominate defensive. He cruises through the NZ with the puck, rarely misses a pass, knows how to cycle, and is damned hard to knock off the puck. His skating issues are totally overblown. Getzlaf isn't fast at all. Coots's issue is foot speed as in moving from a standstill. Then he gets a little statue happy but with, speed, I see no problem. He looked SOOO good in the WC too. Most confident I've ever seen him, independent of his linemates and team.

If Simmer could play LW this would be so much easier.

I would definitely love to see Coots with Jake for more than 3 games or whatever. They didn't score but man did they puck dominate. I'm too tired to do anything statistical but all of you know Coots's story. I see him as our 2C; I see a very good playmaker in the making; and I see a guy who doesn't just dominate defensive. He cruises through the NZ with the puck, rarely misses a pass, knows how to cycle, and is damned hard to knock off the puck. His skating issues are totally overblown. Getzlaf isn't fast at all. Coots's issue is foot speed as in moving from a standstill. Then he gets a little statue happy but with, speed, I see no problem. He looked SOOO good in the WC too. Most confident I've ever seen him, independent of his linemates and team.

If Simmer could play LW this would be so much easier.
- Mononoke

I agree completely on Couturier. I personally wouldn't split up Giroux and Voracek, but I don't think it's a bad idea. If Voracek played with Couturier, Simmonds doesn't have to play LW. He can play the right side with Giroux.

I agree, I think Hakstol and Hexy would love for him to produce to help find a buyer. I do believe they will give VL a chance but I have little hope that he will be anything more then last year. tough situation for Hakstol and Hexy. Don't see Hexy panicking on VL though...think he could just ride it out if he can't work any magic.
- peesinwind

Hexy will ride it out if he can't find a deal that works. A buy out next summer sucks, but it gets him out the door & gives them some relief. Depends on what numbers Voracek , Schenn and Couturier end up with

Throwing out a thought here: anyone else tired of seeing Coots with Read? I love Read and think he just had an injury plagued down year. But if there was a way to split Read and put him as 3LW with Laughton perhaps, I'd do it. I love me some Matt Read, but I just wonder if things aren't a little stale between them and if Coot's development might be better as a blossoming 2C (though I don't put too much stock in this 2C/3C debate. His minutes the last couple years say 2C)?

Though if Jake is on the right with them, I'd be fine with leaving them together.

Throwing out a thought here: anyone else tired of seeing Coots with Read? I love Read and think he just had an injury plagued down year. But if there was a way to split Read and put him as 3LW with Laughton perhaps, I'd do it. I love me some Matt Read, but I just wonder if things aren't a little stale between them and if Coot's development might be better as a blossoming 2C (though I don't put too much stock in this 2C/3C debate. His minutes the last couple years say 2C)?

Though if Jake is on the right with them, I'd be fine with leaving them together.
- Mononoke

Not really, Read is a very important player for the Flyers, and when healthy, both Read and Couturier put up solid numbers at ES, especially when considering usage and deployment.

I would definitely love to see Coots with Jake for more than 3 games or whatever. They didn't score but man did they puck dominate. I'm too tired to do anything statistical but all of you know Coots's story. I see him as our 2C; I see a very good playmaker in the making; and I see a guy who doesn't just dominate defensive. He cruises through the NZ with the puck, rarely misses a pass, knows how to cycle, and is damned hard to knock off the puck. His skating issues are totally overblown. Getzlaf isn't fast at all. Coots's issue is foot speed as in moving from a standstill. Then he gets a little statue happy but with, speed, I see no problem. He looked SOOO good in the WC too. Most confident I've ever seen him, independent of his linemates and team.

If Simmer could play LW this would be so much easier.
- Mononoke

I really like Coots. His improvement is slow but steady. Players don't have to have a breakout year to be good...they can improve over time. He is a solid two way player who I think will be a pretty good second line center. He is young and promising. I think he gets a raw deal with many fans.

Splitting Read is as much for usage as anything. Something like Read/Laughton/x would help split the load a bit. Coots is dominant enough defensively to not need Read. I'm wondering if Read/Laughton could play a slightly (not entirely) similar role to the one Read/Coots has played in the past.

I'm not even saying split them for good. It's just they've NEVER been apart the last couple years. Jake has played elsewhere, everyone has in terms of their usual positions. I'd just like to give it a test run.

Throwing out a thought here: anyone else tired of seeing Coots with Read? I love Read and think he just had an injury plagued down year. But if there was a way to split Read and put him as 3LW with Laughton perhaps, I'd do it. I love me some Matt Read, but I just wonder if things aren't a little stale between them and if Coot's development might be better as a blossoming 2C (though I don't put too much stock in this 2C/3C debate. His minutes the last couple years say 2C)?

Though if Jake is on the right with them, I'd be fine with leaving them together.
- Mononoke

Couts and Schenn looked good together at the end of last season

Throwing out a thought here: anyone else tired of seeing Coots with Read? I love Read and think he just had an injury plagued down year. But if there was a way to split Read and put him as 3LW with Laughton perhaps, I'd do it. I love me some Matt Read, but I just wonder if things aren't a little stale between them and if Coot's development might be better as a blossoming 2C (though I don't put too much stock in this 2C/3C debate. His minutes the last couple years say 2C)?

Though if Jake is on the right with them, I'd be fine with leaving them together.
- Mononoke

I think Schen and raffl are hugely Important. Their success means you can have more scoring down the lineup.

Splitting Read is as much for usage as anything. Something like Read/Laughton/x would help split the load a bit. Coots is dominant enough defensively to not need Read. I'm wondering if Read/Laughton could play a slightly (not entirely) similar role to the one Read/Coots has played in the past.

I'm not even saying split them for good. It's just they've NEVER been apart the last couple years. Jake has played elsewhere, everyone has in terms of their usual positions. I'd just like to give it a test run.
- Mononoke

Berube tried Read with Giroux this past season to try and jump start his game, for a period of time.

Andrew MacDonald, in brief, this season past:

Second easiest Relative QoC on the Flyers among d men, ahead of only Luke Schenn.

Second highest o zone starts behind Streit.

Third worst Corsi Relative on team ahead of Schultz and Grossmann. Most people would agree they're the worst puck movers on the team. Schultz realistically is a third pairing guy who did yeoman's work to take on minutes above his head bc we had no one to take them, even if he didn't do well in them. Grossmann is Grossmann. Being lumped with those two isn't great.

All signs point to A Mac being one of the most sheltered d men on team. And in those sheltered minutes he came up short. Smart people like jsaquella say he's a "decent" 4-5. I agree. Yada yada yada repeat what everyone here has heard

But rule of thumb, MJL: you have to post more than limp generalizations and unspecific, unbacked up descriptors of what a player is or could be. Show what is; show what could be. Vagueness is fine (this is just a fun forum after all!), except when it comes in response to and in denial of specifics. Ok, my friend?
- Mononoke

Holy Ish, what did i log into

Holy Ish, what did i log into
- KINGKENZO

poops and giggles

Hexy will ride it out if he can't find a deal that works. A buy out next summer sucks, but it gets him out the door & gives them some relief. Depends on what numbers Voracek , Schenn and Couturier end up with
- Jsaquella

Yes but I think Bill was right about all the heavy D contracts being replaced by cheap but talented players in our farm system. That should give some room for the 3...at least I'm hoping that their $$$$ are not out of control (can't see Hexy doing that though). Think about it though...each D guy being replaced by someone under a million is giving room for a 2.5-3.5 million dollar raise.

Regarding Coots (only player whose jersey I own....yeah slight bias haha), these World Championship videos play in my dreams.....

https://vine.co/v/eZMd1wpWt5I

https://vine.co/v/eZM5meg20dJ

https://vine.co/v/eZM6QaOrjuA

https://vine.co/v/empp1HMDMtA

In fact during WC, Coots scored most of his goals on redirects I believe. Wouldn't it be intriguing to try him out as the net front presence on PP2? They put him towards the top bc of his defensive acumen, but I'm wondering if he'd be better served down low. Probably biggest mistake in terms of PP2 is running it like the first.