If he plays like he did last year for the remainder of his contract, then he is overpaid. As such, any term is too long when it's an overpayment. I think most people agreed that his usage in NY wasn't in line with where he was in his development (first pairing minutes).

If he steps up his game and plays more consistent, then he's probably in line with what other 3rd/4th defenseman make, perhaps 500K too much.

If his play stays where it is, then it's an overpayment and stings for another 5 years.

There's always the potential that he could step up his game exponentially and become a top-2 guy, but I don't think that's likely.

Either way, my point is that he played a role that he wasn't suited for in NYI, and then played a full season's worth of hockey over 2 years in Philly. I'm fine with people saying that he hasn't played well to date. I'm simply stating that it's foolish to close the book on a 28-year old that has only been with a team for 1 full season. Either way, people will continue to make their judgments as they see fit. I just prefer to take a more relaxed position and see if players were worth the entire contract; not just year 1.
- steelydan

The issue is, in a cap world, overpaying for a guy like MacDonald can bite a team in the ass.

Especially a team that has $9mm tied up in two forwards that are ticketed for the 4th line or press box, and spent most of last season there, as well. If it was just MacDonald, it wouldn't be a big issue.

But last year, a team that finished as the 7th worst team in the NHL, had the highest payroll in the NHL by about $4-5mm. They carried $21.1mm on their cap last season for Lecavalier, Umberger, MacDonald, Grossmann and Luke Schenn. That's not a good thing.

Hextall has managed to purge a bit. Losing Pronger's contract gives them more flexibility in terms of off season moves and cleared tagging space for next season which helps them in the effort to re-sign guys.

But Hextall himself says they're not out of the woods yet, and I agree with him. I still expect the Flyers to be a cap team, but I feel Hextall is going to be a lot more prudent than his predecessor.

In terms of MacDonald himself, if thinking he is what he is, a solid 4-5 defenseman, but won't be an all star level guy is closing the book on him, then I'm guilty as charged. But that doesn't meant I don't want him to be better or become an all star. I just doubt it happens. And again, if I am proven wrong and he plays at or near such a level, I'll happily admit I was wrong and give props to him and Holmgren for the contract.

As I have said, repeatedly, if he was on Luke Schenn's deal, or even MDZ's deal, I wouldn't complain about his contract.

If he plays like he did last year for the remainder of his contract, then he is overpaid. As such, any term is too long when it's an overpayment. I think most people agreed that his usage in NY wasn't in line with where he was in his development (first pairing minutes).

If he steps up his game and plays more consistent, then he's probably in line with what other 3rd/4th defenseman make, perhaps 500K too much.

If his play stays where it is, then it's an overpayment and stings for another 5 years.

There's always the potential that he could step up his game exponentially and become a top-2 guy, but I don't think that's likely.

Either way, my point is that he played a role that he wasn't suited for in NYI, and then played a full season's worth of hockey over 2 years in Philly. I'm fine with people saying that he hasn't played well to date. I'm simply stating that it's foolish to close the book on a 28-year old that has only been with a team for 1 full season. Either way, people will continue to make their judgments as they see fit. I just prefer to take a more relaxed position and see if players were worth the entire contract; not just year 1.
- steelydan

That's fair. I happen to think he'll rebound nicely this year under Hakstol. I would guarantee that he won't look like he did last year and certainly won't be healthy scratched. He has the type of game where if you never talk about him it's a good thing and I think that will more so be the case this year

If we only could keep one of AMac or Schenn, who would you keep?

Pffft. Like there's gonna be any left when he brings it back.
- johndewar

Good point.

If we only could keep one of AMac or Schenn, who would you keep?
- 2Real

Schenn. Younger, smaller & shorter contract, righty shot.

That's fair. I happen to think he'll rebound nicely this year under Hakstol. I would guarantee that he won't look like he did last year and certainly won't be healthy scratched. He has the type of game where if you never talk about him it's a good thing and I think that will more so be the case this year
- Just5

I do think he will be better than he was last year. Still don't see him being more than a 4-5 D-man. I hope to be proven wrong.

If we only could keep one of AMac or Schenn, who would you keep?
- 2Real

Schenn just to be rid of both by year's end

Schenn just to be rid of both by year's end
- Just5

If we only could keep one of AMac or Schenn, who would you keep?
- 2Real

schenn.

I agree that MacDonald never gets the benefit of the doubt. His play has not been great but I feel he is misused almost every second he plays.

My main issue with him is he is not really great at anything. Even when put in a favorable matchup or with a good partner. He is a good shot blocker and he will play in whatever situation the coach asks him to play. To me that is not worth the contract he received.

With that said, the contract is signed. Nothing can be done about that. I personally will not use it to evaluate his play moving forward. However, I will never be happy with the contract and will hope daily that they trade him sooner rather than later.
- mickel25

I agree that MacDonald is not great in any one area. I also don't think that he should be expected to be. You're not going to get defenseman who are great in anyone area, for 5M a year. What MacDonald can be, is a player who is pretty solid all around. I think he has that ability, and if he does, he'll be well worth his contract in my opinion. I don't look at 5M as this big number that many view it as. It's the market for under 30 top 4 defenseman in the UFA market. That number will continue to escalate moving forward.

If we only could keep one of AMac or Schenn, who would you keep?
- 2Real

Both flawed...really comes down to the composition of the rest of the defense. Both are purely complementary players, neither is truly missed when they are scratched.

Guess if it's one or the other, I would keep Schenn because I can appreciate his size and ability to be physical.

The cap difference wouldn't bother me if I thought MacDonald did anything well enough to make me feel like he brings something to the table that I find useful

Because he's overpaid and has too long a term. I'd love to be wrong and will joyously admit it if he does become an all star caliber player. But looking at his time in NY and his time here, he's a decent 4-5 defenseman. With the right partner he can play on your second pair. Remember, the Isles, who drafted him and developed him and saw him play for them for several seasons wouldn't give him more than 4 years at a $4mm cap hit.

If he had the contract MDZ just signed, I'd have zero issue with him. Anything more than that, in cash or term, I'd have rather seen the Flyers walk away and go with somebody else.
- Jsaquella

yep. he is a legit nhl dman. no doubt about it. not for 5mm or 5 more years though. he was never worth that at any point in his career. never ever.

Let's be honest, expecting MacDonald to become an All Star is not realistic. First of all, he's never going to have the offensive statistics to be considered an all star. Secondly, he's never going to win the popularity contest either. So let's dismiss with that.
Lastly, with any player, how he plays ultimately determines if a contract is a good contract or not. Saying you hope you're wrong, but he's a 3rd pair overpaid player, is not looking at the situation objectively, and looking at the situation objectively, in any way. That's making a final determination on the player.
If MacDonald plays to the level he's capable of, there is no way that contract can "bite the team in the ass." he's been a top 4 defenseman in this league for a considerable number of years. All of a sudden, he's a 3rd pair defenseman.

Just curious of what others think:

Ek thinks there could be a good number of teams walking away from Arb awards this season because of cap issues.

I am not sure of all the arbitration players but who might fall into that category?

yep. he is a legit nhl dman. no doubt about it. not for 5mm or 5 more years though. he was never worth that at any point in his career. never ever.
- rinaldo

Yup. Not as if I'm saying he's Chris Macallister or Corey Foster. I'd just rather be paying a guy like Sekera $5.5mm or a guy like Stralman $4.5mm or a guy like Trevor Daly $3.3mm.

I agree that MacDonald is not great in anyone area. I also think that he should be expected to be. You're not going to get defenseman who are great in anyone area, for 5M a year. What MacDonald can be, is a player who is pretty solid all around. I think he has that ability, and if he does, he'll be well worth his contract in my opinion. I don't look at 5M as this big number that many view it as. It's the market for under 30 top 4 defenseman in the UFA market. That number will continue to escalate moving forward.
- MJL

The length kills me. $5mil per is the going rate for an average NHL defenseman in free agency. I know the Flyers did not sign him as a FA. However, they did need to negotiate like he was.

If he plays better I will not complain. Again what's done is done.

Yup. Not as if I'm saying he's Chris Macallister or Corey Foster. I'd just rather be paying a guy like Sekera $5.5mm or a guy like Stralman $4.5mm or a guy like Trevor Daly $3.3mm.
- Jsaquella

I never understood the rush to sign him. more or less a dime a dozen type player. the whole thing baffled me.

many will disagree though hextall has to have some blame on that as well. We will never know I guess though I wonder if he was opposed to this and if so did he speak up? he was the eventual successor so he new the contract would be on his watch.

Just curious of what others think:

Ek thinks there could be a good number of teams walking away from Arb awards this season because of cap issues.

I am not sure of all the arbitration players but who might fall into that category?
- J35Bacher

Craig Smith had his hearing today, There's 12 or 13 more cases pending. Derek Steppan is one, Josh Jooris, Adam Larsson, Braden Holtby and Marcus Johansson are others.

Teams may decide to walk away if there's a significant gap in what they were offering and the award given.

Schenn. Younger, smaller & shorter contract, righty shot.
- Jsaquella

but Schenn is a UFA at the end of the season he may ask for a decent raise

I agree that MacDonald is not great in anyone area. I also think that he should be expected to be. You're not going to get defenseman who are great in anyone area, for 5M a year. What MacDonald can be, is a player who is pretty solid all around. I think he has that ability, and if he does, he'll be well worth his contract in my opinion. I don't look at 5M as this big number that many view it as. It's the market for under 30 top 4 defenseman inD the UFA market. That number will continue to escalate moving forward.
- MJL

I actually like the way he played when he first arrived, so I guess the optimist suggests he has it in him....hopefully he puts last year behind him where from my view was very inconsistent. To me he is a guy that can be a top notch shot blocker like his last year on the island....a guy who is a quick decision maker in his own end ans a guy that can eat 20 minutes a night....I would argue any time a guy doesn't play to his pay cheque it's a cap issue, simply because that's the reality of today's NHL....a cap system.

I never understood the rush to sign him. more or less a dime a dozen type player. the whole thing baffled me.

many will disagree though hextall has to have some blame on that as well. We will never know I guess though I wonder if he was opposed to this and if so did he speak up? he was the eventual successor so he new the contract would be on his watch.
- rinaldo

Hextall may well have some blame there. He was in the front office when they traded for him and signed him. I wasn't a huge fan of the trade and disliked the contract. I think better players have signed as UFAs since then for slightly more or even less, and that aspect of it bothers me.

but Schenn is a UFA at the end of the season he may ask for a decent raise
- 2Real

Then say adios to him and you suddenly have $8.6mm in cap room

Both flawed...really comes down to the composition of the rest of the defense. Both are purely complementary players, neither is truly missed when they are scratched.

Guess if it's one or the other, I would keep Schenn because I can appreciate his size and ability to be physical.

The cap difference wouldn't bother me if I thought MacDonald did anything well enough to make me feel like he brings something to the table that I find useful
- AllInForFlyers

All but the very top defenseman in the league, have flaws to their game.