He can ask for whatever he likes, doesn't mean he'll get it.

Think you'll see a bunch of vets taking min deals come mid Sept.
- vabeachbear

Yup! And hopefully a couple of them with the 'Hawks.

Am I the only one that finds the irony in all this angst based on what your avi is?
- Confederate

No your are not, but I didn't feel like getting into this discussion, so I didn't say anything.

With regards to Kruger, here's another important point to consider. The new faceoff rule:

Rule 76.4, Face-Offs – Paragraph 2

When the face-off takes place at any of the nine face-off spots, the players taking part shall take their position so that they will stand squarely facing their opponent's end of the rink, and clear of the ice markings (where applicable). The sticks of both players facing-off shall have the blade on the ice, within the designated white area. At the eight face-off spots (excluding center ice face-off spot), the defending player shall place his stick within the designated white area first followed immediately by the attacking player. When the face-off is conducted at the center ice face-off spot, the visiting player shall place his stick on the ice first.

Kruger had virtually no drop off in faceoffs wins in his away faceoffs last year.

Overall he was 53.3% home 53.4% away 53.2%

Am I the only one that finds the irony in all this angst based on what your avi is?
- Confederate

Just admit that you are ignorant.

My last post on this, but I can't let this go:

As to Dukes of Hazzard, I rarely watched it: the only good thing about it was Waylon Jennings' theme song.

As to the rest: I am neither miserable, bitter, nor unhappy. I am NOT offended by the Confederate flag.

I AM offended by people who think it's ok to display that flag knowing the racism and anti-Semitism that it has represented through the years, and then justify it by pretending that the racist, anti-Semitic meanings don't exist.
- StLBravesFan

Last word from me.

I personally have no affection for it. Natives like the Choctaw suffered under it too. Others fought for it.

However, some display it because it DOES NOT represent racism and anti-semitism to them. I know many who see it as a symbol of family sacrifices to a tragic cause and nothing more.

These PC police should acknowledge that, as well as the 1st amendment, and move along.

with regards to saad, the ONLY thing stan wasn't prepared for was to pay him $6m per year....he had a backup plan and executed it.
- Confederate

Absolutely agree.

SB does not get the credit he deserves in some quarters for being ultra prepared here. Saad had been talking hometown discount merely days before the advent of free agency. Then, his agent suddenly changed tone.

Fortunately, SB took nothing for granted and had contingency plans in his back pocket which he enacted with expediency once the situation went south.

We all loved Saad and what he has meant to the Hawks and their success. Without question.

But, does everybody fully realize what would be in the bag the Hawks would be left holding if an offer sheet went through? Match it, and the Hawks current cap issues would pale in comparison. There would be no legitimate hope in signing Kruger and a serviceable veteran on the blueline. The cap implications would have an impact for years. Decline to match, and now they would have a glaring hole on one of the top two lines with only a few draft picks to show for it. The window to win big is now. Even if they hit on those picks it would take a number of years to realize any positive return at the big league level.

The Saad situation had SB over a barrel. We all need to think long and hard about what COULD have happened but didn't thanks to the foresight and preparedness of the GM.

Rather than being thrust into either of these vulnerable positions, SB managed to secure a 2C, a position many have been vocal about shoring up for years, and a player who has been sought after by SB for years. And, he got Dano. Dano, a guy whom many GM's around the league reportedly thought was untouchable.

Rather than panic, SB grabbed the emergency bag he had packed and was able to weather a storm that could have had horrific consequences for the Hawks. I just think he deserves more credit than he is getting for having this escape plan at the ready.

I don't know that CLB got better through the deal as I believe they are going to rue the day they let Dano go, but they did get a great hockey player in Saad that will bring much more awareness to their team! Plus, he's been a key part of 2 Cup wins!
- MexicoHawk

I think that right now, Columbus needs guys like Saad. Gotta remember that Columbus isn't just trying to win the Cup, they're trying to gain fans, stay profitable, etc. Dano, while he might be great in the future, isn't helping them towards their goals right now. Saad is a guy they can sell now, and who makes their team better right now.

They very well might wish they had Dano over Saad in future, but I think they made the right decision for right now.

Wow, of course they would have. The NHL is filled with good goalies, there are an abundance of them in both conferences. Crawford has played well in CHI but he has also had his lapses. Against BOS in game 4, Crawford's play almost cost us the series, but the Hawks scored a bunch of goals and won...against NSH this year he simply wasn't ready for what he knew was NSH's game and needed our rookie backup to come in and take back control of the series. Crawford is a GOOD goalie that still has some issues with his game, not unlike most NHL goalies. Q's system and Chicago's core is what has won us these cups...our goaltender has rarely been asked to be "the guy". How is this hard to understand? Crawford is NOT the reason why we have won these Cups, however, he was a KEY part of two of them as all GOOD NHL goalies are!
Again, read this line...we win because of Coach Q, Jonathan Toews and Duncan Keith first and foremost, and a great supporting cast around them! But without these three guys, WE DON'T WIN A SINGLE CUP!
- MexicoHawk

Crawford reminds me of Osgood. He's a good goalie, but he's not stealing many series for the Hawks. He has a great team in front of him.

wasn't Dahlbeck there a couple of years? Don't recall.
- vabeachbear

No former Ice Hog dman has been part of the team as a regular on defense since Hammer came through Rockford.

I get it, and I don't disagree with you at all, but no one seemed to have a problem with it being on the Dukes of Hazzard car for 35 years.

I won't speak to the Confederate flag specifically, but I will say that political correctness has gotten way out of control in our society.

There are a lot of miserable, bitter, and unhappy people around who apparently have nothing better to do than to try to make the rest of us bitter, miserable, and unhappy too, and finding things to be offended by has become there modus operandi. A week after they're done with the Confederate flag, now it's the fleur-de-lis that's offensive? Wait, what?
- MartiniMan

Well said Sir.

I think that right now, Columbus needs guys like Saad. Gotta remember that Columbus isn't just trying to win the Cup, they're trying to gain fans, stay profitable, etc. Dano, while he might be great in the future, isn't helping them towards their goals right now. Saad is a guy they can sell now, and who makes their team better right now.

They very well might wish they had Dano over Saad in future, but I think they made the right decision for right now.
- SolidGoldBricks

And that's fine, but I didn't think he was worth 5 mil so I think it worked out well for the Hawks.

Not to minimize Saad but I honestly believe if Panarin skates with Toews and Hossa he'll score at least 15 goals but if he's all that they say he is and can handle the small ice can he match Saads output I don't see why not.

Until Holtby wins a Stanley Cup (or 2), there is a huge drop off.
Added - no matter how good the team is in front of you, the goalie still has to stop the puck. CC has shown he can stop the puck in the biggest games. Holtby hasn't.
- powerenforcer

Gonna disagree, Holtby was outstanding this season. And played on a team not nearly as good. And to reiterate what JJ and Mexico have both been saying, including this blog, there are a few NHL goalies that can win with the Hawks, and I'd include Holtby on that list.

And their numbers are almost identical. So no, I don't see a huge drop off.

CC
14-15 .924 2.27 2 SO
Career .917 2.34 12 SO

Holtby
14-15 .923 2.22 9 SO
Career .921 2.44 20 SO

Just admit that you are ignorant.
- biegs

I will admit I am ignorant as to why you think your world view is gospel - no offense to anyone who is offended by the word "gospel"

I will admit I am ignorant as to why you think your world view is gospel - no offense to anyone who is offended by the word "gospel"
- Confederate

And that's fine, but I didn't think he was worth 5 mil so I think it worked out well for the Hawks.

Not to minimize Saad but I honestly believe if Panarin skates with Toews and Hossa he'll score at least 15 goals but if he's all that they say he is and can handle the small ice can he match Saads output I don't see why not.
- BetweenTheDots

I think he definitely will. It was a better trade for Chicago. Whether Saad is worth 6m or not, I don't think the Hawks could afford it without getting rid of pieces they want to keep, now or in the future. It was a smart move.

Everyone needs to agree to disagree and argue more about hockey. You're not going to change each others political views.

It's a good thing I didn't get started.

Gonna disagree, Holtby was outstanding this season. And played on a team not nearly as good. And to reiterate what JJ and Mexico have both been saying, including this blog, there are a few NHL goalies that can win with the Hawks, and I'd include Holtby on that list.

And their numbers are almost identical:

CC
14-15 .924 2.27 2 SO
Career .917 2.34 12 SO

Holtby
14-15 .923 2.22 9 SO
Career .921 2.44 20 SO
- scottak

The more I think about it, I am really on the fence with CC. I don't disagree with your argument, I just think that there is a drop-off in that Holtby has never been in a final, and can you really say regular season games are the same as playoff and final games? I understand that moving CC could be needed, and moving him would really help the cap situation, but won't Holtby want a big chunk of that back?

Yes...some give-aways, also a price of success.

But the last dman that could be deemed developed in Rockford to play in Chicago with success was Hammer.....And he played in Rockford for about a half season, and that was 10 years ago!
- Al

And Leddy played a half season (or so) in Rockford in both '10-11 and '11-12 before being up with the big boys. The thing is, if you can play, you can play. If you can't, you can't. The BS about Q not playing youngsters is ridiculous.

Interesting reads from the Penguins blogger about the age at which a prospect makes a successful transition to the NHL. The data seem to suggest that if you are young and really good, you make the transition. If you haven't seen NHL ice after several years, the probability of ever getting up there is lower.

I think it's the same with a lot of things in life. I'm a teacher, and I enjoy "leading the horses to water," but sometimes I conclude that's all I can do… A lot of the ones who understand the material the best get it right away, and the rest have varying degrees of struggles and may never get it (they are stuck in the ECHL or AHL in their own way).

Anyway, education aside, look at past Blackhawk D prospects. Clendening got sent down to Vancouver's AHL team. Stanton didn't get a qualifying offer from Vancouver. Dahlbeck got signed to a one-year TWO-WAY deal… We'll see how Johns does in Dallas, but he's going to be 24.

Yeah fans are pissed about Bickell making 4 million, imagine Saad making 6 and not performing.
- BetweenTheDots

And the thing is, Saad will have to perform considerably better than he ever did with the Hawks to justify 6 mil a year. People still bemoaning the trade ((there are fewer and fewer of them, at least on this board) lose sight of the fact that Columbus is betting on the come with Saad. He's a talented 2-way player with a lot of potential upside and may well be worth his contract eventually... but he may not. Last year's performance may be as good (or almost as good anyway) as he gets. The Hawks are in no position to gamble like that.

Wow, of course they would have. The NHL is filled with good goalies, there are an abundance of them in both conferences. Crawford has played well in CHI but he has also had his lapses. Against BOS in game 4, Crawford's play almost cost us the series, but the Hawks scored a bunch of goals and won...against NSH this year he simply wasn't ready for what he knew was NSH's game and needed our rookie backup to come in and take back control of the series. Crawford is a GOOD goalie that still has some issues with his game, not unlike most NHL goalies. Q's system and Chicago's core is what has won us these cups...our goaltender has rarely been asked to be "the guy". How is this hard to understand? Crawford is NOT the reason why we have won these Cups, however, he was a KEY part of two of them as all GOOD NHL goalies are!
Again, read this line...we win because of Coach Q, Jonathan Toews and Duncan Keith first and foremost, and a great supporting cast around them! But without these three guys, WE DON'T WIN A SINGLE CUP!
- MexicoHawk

In the present tense without Crawford I don't think they win either Cup....Most definitely not in 2013 and most likely not this year, especially if his replacement was Darling.

We had a nice discussion about Crawford last night-some thought he is a bargain.

I listed a bunch of goalies making $5.9 up to $ 7mill and there wasn't one who I would take over Crawford. So because he can't be replaced for same money or less he is a value imo....not necessarily a bargain.

No doubt the Hawks would not have won any of the Cups without the players you mentioned but judging how Crawford performed in 2013 or 2015, in my view they don't win those Cups without him.

The only reason Crawford didn't win the Conn Smythe in 2010 is because the national guys who almost to a man aren't watching every game of the Hawks in the first two rounds- And most of the voters don't see them for an entire series until the Finals voted for Kane. Kane himself said Crawford should have won.

I have not met anyone who watched Crawford in every game in 2010 that is credentialed and also John included, that didn't think Crawford was the best player throughout the 2013 post season. I know all the beat writers who had a vote, and I think it was Kuc and Sassone only, voted for Crawford.

But at some point it all revolves on a math problem-Toews, Kane, Hossa, Keith, Hammer and most likely Seabrook aren't going anywhere-So that leaves Crawford as they only larger cap hit left who by himself could solve some cap misery.

But in the same regard he is more of a goalie in the top 1/4-1/3 of the NHL-His numbers in important categories were in close range to Price who won a lot of hardware this year.

Beyond save % and GAA analytics help justify Crawford as one of the best. His save % against quality scoring chances in the playoffs were even better than Price and I believe everyone else.

Can he be traded-Sure but very risky for sure-at least now.
If Darling puts up sold #'s for 30+ games and makes some playoffs start next season and shines then the trade Crawford saga takes on much more significance and becomes more likely.

Al, then in your opinion, don't trade him?
- Maggie

Also answered you below...

Wow, of course they would have. The NHL is filled with good goalies, there are an abundance of them in both conferences. Crawford has played well in CHI but he has also had his lapses. Against BOS in game 4, Crawford's play almost cost us the series, but the Hawks scored a bunch of goals and won...against NSH this year he simply wasn't ready for what he knew was NSH's game and needed our rookie backup to come in and take back control of the series. Crawford is a GOOD goalie that still has some issues with his game, not unlike most NHL goalies. Q's system and Chicago's core is what has won us these cups...our goaltender has rarely been asked to be "the guy". How is this hard to understand? Crawford is NOT the reason why we have won these Cups, however, he was a KEY part of two of them as all GOOD NHL goalies are!
Again, read this line...we win because of Coach Q, Jonathan Toews and Duncan Keith first and foremost, and a great supporting cast around them! But without these three guys, WE DON'T WIN A SINGLE CUP!
- MexicoHawk

quote=Al]In the present tense without Crawford I don't think they win either Cup....Most definitely not in 2013 and most likely not this year, especially if his replacement was Darling.

We had a nice discussion about Crawford last night-some thought he is a bargain.

I listed a bunch of goalies making $5.9 up to $ 7mill and there wasn't one who I would take over Crawford. So because he can't be replaced for same money or less he is a value imo....not necessarily a bargain.

No doubt the Hawks would not have won any of the Cups without the players you mentioned but judging how Crawford performed in 2013 or 2015, in my view they don't win those Cups without him.

The only reason Crawford didn't win the Conn Smythe in 2013 is because the national guys who almost to a man aren't watching every game of the Hawks in the first two rounds- And most of the voters don't see them for an entire series until the Finals voted for Kane. Kane himself said Crawford should have won.

I have not met anyone who watched Crawford in every game in 2013 that is credentialed and also John included, that didn't think Crawford was the best player throughout the 2013 post season. I know all the beat writers who had a vote, and I think it was Kuc and Sassone only, voted for Crawford.

But at some point it all revolves on a math problem-Toews, Kane, Hossa, Keith, Hammer and most likely Seabrook aren't going anywhere-So that leaves Crawford as they only larger cap hit left who by himself could solve some cap misery.

But in the same regard he is more of a goalie in the top 1/4-1/3 of the NHL-His numbers in important categories were in close range to Price who won a lot of hardware this year.

Beyond save % and GAA analytics help justify Crawford as one of the best. His save % against quality scoring chances in the playoffs were even better than Price and I believe everyone else.

Can he be traded-Sure but very risky-at least for now.
If Darling puts up sold #'s for 30+ games and makes some playoffs start next season and shines then the trade Crawford saga takes on much more significance and becomes more likely.

Am I the only one that finds the irony in all this angst based on what your avi is?
- Confederate

You have a point.

Doesn't change your act of defending the indefensible being moronic - only that I can be as hypocritical as the next guy.

At least I recognize it: you apparently delight in your ignorance.

Everyone needs to agree to disagree and argue more about hockey. You're not going to change each others political views.

It's a good thing I didn't get started.
- pspork

That would make too much sense.

And Leddy played a half season (or so) in Rockford in both '10-11 and '11-12 before being up with the big boys. The thing is, if you can play, you can play. If you can't, you can't. The BS about Q not playing youngsters is ridiculous.

Interesting reads from the Penguins blogger about the age at which a prospect makes a successful transition to the NHL. The data seem to suggest that if you are young and really good, you make the transition. If you haven't seen NHL ice after several years, the probability of ever getting up there is lower.

I think it's the same with a lot of things in life. I'm a teacher, and I enjoy "leading the horses to water," but sometimes I conclude that's all I can do… A lot of the ones who understand the material the best get it right away, and the rest have varying degrees of struggles and may never get it (they are stuck in the ECHL or AHL in their own way).

Anyway, education aside, look at past Blackhawk D prospects. Clendening got sent down to Vancouver's AHL team. Stanton didn't get a qualifying offer from Vancouver. Dahlbeck got signed to a one-year TWO-WAY deal… We'll see how Johns does in Dallas, but he's going to be 24.
- DMChi2010

Didn't count let Leddy but point wasn't about Q not playing young players ...It was about no 3rd pairing dmen having been developed in Rockford.

Leddy doesn't count as being developed in Rockford because 22 games isn't enough...Leddy-Shaw-Kruger played in Rockford in 2013 only becasue of the lockout.