You guys keep saying this but it doesn't make it any more true.

The truth is, he's a third line center. The Hawks don't really have a fourth line.

Or if you simply insist they're a fourth line, show me another "fourth line" that is routinely sent out against the best players in the league (when most fourth lines in the league have to be sheltered), and maintains offensive zone time like that line does.

Killing penalties matters. Every bit as much as the power play does.

Another thing you need to understand is that because of the above, Quenneville flat LOVES the guy, as does Scotty Bowman (at the very least).

The other thing that needs to sink in is this . . . he's only what, 25? He's done the job asked of him amazingly well, has improved year after year, but he can and probably will get better. He has some hands and playmaking ability and he is only just now really maturing physically.

So that's another way of looking at it that might prove helpful. You can scoff all you want, but this guy is: a) highly valuable to the Hawks and b) there are quite valid reasons for it.
- John Jaeckel

To put the HERO stats in a bit of perspective, look at Bickell's. They will surprise you is my guess.

Doesn't mean I want Bickell around just that they can be misleading in some cases. Kruger's HERO stats are backed up by other metrics though.

Kruger without a doubt one of the 3 best players in his role at the very least. It just becomes a question of what the Hawks can afford, IMO.

There's still last change, which is a tremendously significant advantage, particularly when it counts.
- darklighter

Yes...[img][/img]

Braden Holtby will count US$6.1 million against the salary cap as part of his 5-year, $30.5-million deal with #Caps.

Being at home and sleeping in your own bed would seem to be the primary advantage, probably equal to last change.
- scottak

That matters sometimes, travel etc. I don't think really long home stands of more than 3/4 games help the home side much.

Pretty expensive for a PR move. I think Jarmo saw Saad as a compliment to RJ that could put them over the top at F. He still has issues on D though and $6m for Saad? He's a great player but his regular seasons don't warrant that.
- tredbrta

Right, but it wasn't just a PR move. He is a good player that will fit in well. I think it was a hockey move first and foremost. Again, they need to win now and gain popularity now (at least much more than the Hawks do, haha).

He will be an improvement on their top line, and Dano wasn't going to be this coming season. They basically gave up a 2nd line C (in the immediate future) for Saad, and will face the consequences when Dano becomes a better player.

Braden Holtby will count US$6.1 million against the salary cap as part of his 5-year, $30.5-million deal with #Caps.
- walleyeb1

Great deal for both sides. I've seen a lot of Braden and he is one of my favorite goalies. IMO I'd take holt you over Crawford at those salaries. Yes, crow has Cups. Perhaps so would holt by if he played for the Hawks.

Braden Holtby will count US$6.1 million against the salary cap as part of his 5-year, $30.5-million deal with #Caps.
- walleyeb1

He was exceptional last season. What has he done to deserve that term?? One-hit wonder....

Right, but it wasn't just a PR move. He is a good player that will fit in well. I think it was a hockey move first and foremost. Again, they need to win now and gain popularity now (at least much more than the Hawks do, haha).

He will be an improvement on their top line, and Dano wasn't going to be this coming season. They basically gave up a 2nd line C (in the immediate future) for Saad, and will face the consequences when Dano becomes a better player.
- SolidGoldBricks

Saad is only a product of Toews and Hossa. Now.

Seems some forget in the LA series last season he absolutely took over a couple of games. MY only issue with Saad was he could be a bit inconsistent in his efforts. He improved in that area the past season and I expect it to continue to improve.
The kid is 22. Like all young players, it takes time to learn. Saad ever realizes how good is really is and Columbus is going to have a great player. He has all the tools. I, for one, hope he does very well in Columbus.

Ok then - so you can understand it - for this Hawks team to contend for the Stanley Cup - YES!!!!!! Marcus Kruger is essential.

The only person here that doesn't get that is you....

- dahawks8819

Kruger is a nice player and a more of a luxury with their salary structure. If they can move salary and sign him for 2.5-2.8 million for three years then its probably a good deal.

If they can't move salary or he wants over three then being essential becomes being problem because every few hundred thousand count. Toews took all of the hard assignments during the regular season and most of the playoffs. AA is defensively competent and kills penalties. Some combination of TT, Shaw, Danault or Dezy is not the end of the world. Not ideal but not necessarily the worst possible out come ever.

Having Saad, Oduya and Smith removed means that they need to retool the PK units a bit so there will be some bumps as the new pieces figure it out.

Basically they ought to make an effort to get him on paper but it needs to be for a reasonable amount of dollars and there are other options that could provide something similar. Not LIKE or AS but similar. And in the salary cap era sometimes that is all you can hope for.

Saad is only a product of Toews and Hossa. Now.

Seems some forget in the LA series last season he absolutely took over a couple of games. MY only issue with Saad was he could be a bit inconsistent in his efforts. He improved in that area the past season and I expect it to continue to improve.
The kid is 22. Like all young players, it takes time to learn. Saad ever realizes how good is really is and Columbus is going to have a great player. He has all the tools. I, for one, hope he does very well in Columbus.
- TTtime

I was really impressed by saad this past season - you're right, when he figures out out talented he is, watch out. But he did have lulls and look meh out there plenty of times. I hope he figures it out and has a great career.

Braden Holtby will count US$6.1 million against the salary cap as part of his 5-year, $30.5-million deal with #Caps.
- walleyeb1

Ok, so CC already makes less than Holtby, meaning he's now a "value." Next summer, he will be a bargain. Goaltenders are starting to be paid ... if you want a good one, he ain't coming cheap, unless you get really lucky with a string of rookie goalies and repeatedly cycle out goaltenders every couple of seasons, getting a pearl in every oyster you shuck.

The Habs rolling the dice on a couple players with some character issues in both Kassian and Semin who don't always leave it all out there. Albeit for one only year left but that dressing room could be in for a shakeup chemistry wise. Coach has got to be sweating already...

Kruger is a nice player and a more of a luxury with their salary structure. If they can move salary and sign him for 2.5-2.8 million for three years then its probably a good deal.

If they can't move salary or he wants over three then being essential becomes being problem because every few hundred thousand count. Toews took all of the hard assignments during the regular season and most of the playoffs. AA is defensively competent and kills penalties. Some combination of TT, Shaw, Danault or Dezy is not the end of the world. Not ideal but not necessarily the worst possible out come ever.

Having Saad, Oduya and Smith removed means that they need to retool the PK units a bit so there will be some bumps as the new pieces figure it out.

Basically they ought to make an effort to get him on paper but it needs to be for a reasonable amount of dollars and there are other options that could provide something similar. Not LIKE or AS but similar. And in the salary cap era sometimes that is all you can hope for.
- fattybeef

Q disagrees. Quoting JJ, from this blog: "The one thing the team will do in all of those scenarios is re-sign Marcus Kruger, who Quenneville believes is essential to any realistic shot at a Cup this year."

Sure, anyone can be wrong in their evaluation of a player's value--even Q. All things being equal though...

FWIW, 'freedom of speech' only pertains to the federal government's ability to restrict it. For instance, a company can fire you for something you say, especially in an 'at will' relationship not guided by a union contract. The USA can't censure you, in most instances.
- scottak

Whatever.

Kruger is a nice player and a more of a luxury with their salary structure. If they can move salary and sign him for 2.5-2.8 million for three years then its probably a good deal.

If they can't move salary or he wants over three then being essential becomes being problem because every few hundred thousand count. Toews took all of the hard assignments during the regular season and most of the playoffs. AA is defensively competent and kills penalties. Some combination of TT, Shaw, Danault or Dezy is not the end of the world. Not ideal but not necessarily the worst possible out come ever.

Having Saad, Oduya and Smith removed means that they need to retool the PK units a bit so there will be some bumps as the new pieces figure it out.

Basically they ought to make an effort to get him on paper but it needs to be for 1) a reasonable amount of dollars and 2) there are other options that could provide something similar. Not LIKE or AS but similar. And in the salary cap era sometimes that is all you can hope for.
- fattybeef

1) Sure, but i think most would agree for what he does, $2.5 million is reasonable—they can't even afford that right now. Likely will before too long and it'll get done.

2) Same exact logic could be applied to a rationale for trading one Corey Crawford. You might be able to get similar, not like or as, in return or by other means—because it is a salary cap world.

if I woke up tomorrow and saw they'd dealt Kruger's rights, would I have a heart attack in disbelief? No. Would I be very surprised? Based on all I've heard, yes.

Great deal for both sides. I've seen a lot of Braden and he is one of my favorite goalies. IMO I'd take holt you over Crawford at those salaries. Yes, crow has Cups. Perhaps so would holt by if he played for the Hawks.
- gmurban

This is pretty silly. Crawford has been a great goalie for multiple seasons now and has the playoff success to compliment. Good deal for holtby, I like the kid. I just don't know if I'd want him over Crawford if it came down to a one game playoff or anything like that.

Also, is it just me or is Washington a goalie factory? Neuvirth, Varlomov, Holtby...I know it HAS been done in the past, but what other team recently has produced two high quality starters in rapid succession like Varlomov and Holtby? Neuvirth is meh but not horrible either.

I was really impressed by saad this past season - you're right, when he figures out out talented he is, watch out. But he did have lulls and look meh out there plenty of times. I hope he figures it out and has a great career
- Confederate

A lot of players do that and when you are 22 years old it´s not that uncommon thing. Just because Saad isn´t Blackhawk anymore doesn´t change the fact that he can be a star and game changing player for years to come. He is so strong with the puck, fast, playes well defensively and is proven winner.

I hated that trade when I first heard of it. Not because of what Hawks got but because Saad was gone. Maybe Dano will be better player than Saad someday but Saad is already really good one.

Saad is only a product of Toews and Hossa. Now.

Seems some forget in the LA series last season he absolutely took over a couple of games. MY only issue with Saad was he could be a bit inconsistent in his efforts. He improved in that area the past season and I expect it to continue to improve.
The kid is 22. Like all young players, it takes time to learn. Saad ever realizes how good is really is and Columbus is going to have a great player. He has all the tools. I, for one, hope he does very well in Columbus.
- TTtime

So are you saying he didn't benefit from Toews or Hossa on the same line? Maybe better yet Toews and Hossa benefited from Saad being on the same line? Saad +7, Toews +30, Hossa +17, and the miserable Brian Bickell +5 wirhout being on the top two lines and he only had 28 points.

A lot of players do that and when you are 22 years old it´s not that uncommon thing. Just because Saad isn´t Blackhawk anymore doesn´t change the fact that he can be a star and game changing player for years to come. He is so strong with the puck, fast, playes well defensively and is proven winner.

I hated that trade when I first heard of it. Not because of what Hawks got but because Saad was gone. Maybe Dano will be better player than Saad someday but Saad is already really good one.
- MjulQvist

I didnt bash saad - i said when he figures it out, watch out...and also i hope he has a great career.

1) Sure, but i think most would agree for what he does, $2.5 million is reasonable—they can't even afford that right now. Likely will before too long and it'll get done.

2) Same exact logic could be applied to a rationale for trading one Corey Crawford. You might be able to get similar, not like or as, in return or by other means—because it is a salary cap world.

if I woke up tomorrow and saw they'd dealt Kruger's rights, would I have a heart attack in disbelief? No. Would I be very surprised? Based on all I've heard, yes.
- John Jaeckel

JJ, what's the biggest problem Stan is running into clearing cap space? Is there really no team that would take on Bickell or Versteegs contract? Or is he just waiting for a better deal because he already has a deal worked out with Krugs and has some time to put together a deal he likes? If I had to guess it sounds like a mixture of both. Also do you think there is the bowman ego coming into play? I mean he signed Bickell to that contract, and went out and traded for Steeger. So I'm thinking he doesn't want to look like a fool for dumping guys he had confidence in for a bag of pucks.

So are you saying he didn't benefit from Toews or Hossa on the same line? Maybe better yet Toews and Hossa benefited from Saad being on the same line? Saad +7, Toews +30, Hossa +17, and the miserable Brian Bickell +5 wirhout being on the top two lines and he only had 28 points.
- BetweenTheDots

I am saying they all benefit from playing with each other. Plus minus is the most meaningless stat in hockey.

Saad also spent time on the 3rd line the past season which accounts for the disparity in numbers.

He also has proven a lot more in the NHL than Dano has to this point. And against much tougher QoC.

It was a trade that had to be made given all the cap implications but to think Saad didn't earn his spot on that line is revisionist history in my opinion.

I am saying they all benefit from playing with each other. Plus minus is the most meaningless stat in hockey.

Saad also spent time on the 3rd line the past season which accounts for the disparity in numbers.

He also has proven a lot more in the NHL than Dano has to this point. And against much tougher QoC.

It was a trade that had to be made given all the cap implications but to think Saad didn't earn his spot on that line is revisionist history in my opinion.
- TTtime

+/- is the most meaningless stat in hockey? More than SHG or PIM or Avg TOI??? Oh yeah, thought so, you just got served

+/- is the most meaningless stat in hockey? More than SHG or PIM or Avg TOI??? Oh yeah, thought so, you just got served
- flappymcgee303

Except no one uses the stats you mentioned as an indicator of a player's value.

Nice try though. Come back when you have something better.

Except no one uses the stats you mentioned as an indicator of a player's value.

Nice try though. Come back when you have something better.
- TTtime

you said most meaningless stat in hockey, that's what you said. Say what you mean. Also, go look at the +/- leaders for years past, high majority of those players are above average players. FYI, top 10 career +/-, some decent players I would say:

Larry Robinson,Bobby Orr,Ray Bourque,Wayne Gretzky,Bobby Clarke,Denis Potvin,
Serge Savard,Guy Lafleur,Bryan Trottier,Nicklas Lidstrom

Except no one uses the stats you mentioned as an indicator of a player's value.

Nice try though. Come back when you have something better.
- TTtime

Really compared to players on their own team? Go ahead and minimize Toews and Hossa for the sake of being right. And please Bickell played on the lower lines way way way more than Saad did. We'll see after this up coming year and see how the great Saad will do in Columbus. My guess 15 g and 25 a.